The Art of Careful Surrender

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ChelseaSalome -> The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 12:14:07 AM)
I am struggling with understanding the art of careful surrender. Yes, I do understand that the smart submissive will chose carefully and ask all the right questions and not submit in haste. I know the importance of feeling safe and comfortable. I know that it is important to be aware of any hidden "complications"(like a wife and 4 kids) that might stand in the way of a good healthy relationship. But, at some point, even when a commitment(contract or whatever) is negotiated, there will come a time, I think, that a submissive wonders, "is obeying this command an act of surrender or just plain stupid?" The submissive might love and adore the Dom, she or he may feel completely happy within the relationship with much mutual trust and all that good stuff we want, but the command or punishment seems to be "about" something other than furthering along either the relationship or the growth of the submissive. On the other hand, submission seems to be about "doing it anyway" regardless of the doubts of the submissive. This is the part of submission that I am tripping over. In the vanilla world, it's advised that single people(women in particular) never sit at the phone and wait for a call, that we be coy and "hard to get" because guys are only interested in "chasing" It's good to be hard to get. And, if dates are ever broken, well, THAT is unforgivable and a sure sign that he is "just not that into you". Recently, in an earlier thread, I was seriously troubled and received lots of great advice about how to repair damage I had done to an important relationship. It's not fixed~maybe never~but I have gotten so much out of the process, the pain of it all may be worth it in the end. At this point, my seriously deep abandonment issues have come smack up against His need to be, ummmm, a bit less than reliable. He has major childcare concerns involving a child with a disability and work concerns that have made it necessary for him to break a few dates in a row and to not have the time for me that he has in the past. There have been expressed desires on both sides to deal with these problems. I am now in therapy(happily) and have written volumes to him in apology, punishment, ideas, in exploration of thoughts and feelings. He has been trying to get things in order, and he has continued to maintain as much contact as possible. It's been good~except that I haven't changed my acting out much when plans have to be changed. Oh, some~ I have been able to temper it, and I have been able to restrain my impulse to act out on occasion, but as his responsibilities away from me have increased, I find that I am looking for more attention in destructive ways. I have these damned voices in my head that are telling me 1)this will never change 2)he is trying to blow you off 3)he will never have time to for you. I know those voices are lying Even if those things are true, I do not have any real evidence or information to support it. He denies each and every one of them. He says that His interest and desire for me and only me is the same as always.I also have this voice that say that am being a complete fool as a stunning hot uber desirable submissive (kidding!) to want to submit to Him when there are so many other Doms around who would have time for me. But, you know what? I think I have more growth potential with Him. And I love him, which doesn't happen often to me. I am not, by history, foolish with my affections. We have both experienced great happiness together. So, currently, I found myself anticipating all weekend, correctly, a broken plan and becoming internally enraged with feeling angry at myself, mostly, for being taken advantage of, in my mind~and have just ended the relationship tonight saying that while i love Him, he is just not available to be the Dom I need right now. I can't serve air, I need contact. It's been 10 days since we have been together. He had told me, that He has found my behavior completely control seeking and manipulative, uncompassionate and self centered, all true. He feels henpecked and feels that my questioning of him constantly is just undermining his authority as a Dom(all true) He gave me a huge assignment, huge~would take hours and hours and hours. He said we would get together and discuss "us" when I have completed it. I ended the relationship~telling him that He was setting me up to fail in order to cover up His lack of control over his own life. I feel that as wrong as I have been at times, he has taken much of what i have said out of context implied meanings that were not intended. My Ds friends think i am in COMPLETELY in the wrong~they think that I should do it: now exactly as he says, or not speak to him at all ever again and move on, or speak to him sometime way into the future when his life is settled down, but I still have to do the damned assignment. If I do this huge thing, I do this completely knowing that I am giving up control~really, I dont want to do this, its huge, it will be painful, I dont think there is a good reason to do it, I think his motives are suspect, oh, and I just dont want to do it(did I say that already?)~Apparently, these are the reasons I have to do it. I am strong willed, and there is an innerDom inside of me that argues against my emotional submission at times. I know this, some of it is ok and a good trait under the right circumstances~but I also really want to be a good submissive. I'm not being one tonight at all, I am looking for the magic keys(ideas, experiences,opinions) that will put this in its proper place in the mind of a good submissive and help me look at it differently than I am right now.

jeffman1234 -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 12:32:27 AM)
The relationship seems to be a lot of work and will probably be so in the future. The question is will it be satisfying to you. If you do the assignment will it make you happy that you have pleased him?

mstrjx -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 4:20:33 AM)
It's not up to me to tell everyone on CM that D/s is 'easy', and can be broken down into a few simple concepts. But to me it is. Concepts that might not easy to accomplish, but short phrases nonetheless. To be able to submit is to be ready to submit. This requires relieving yourself of the majority of your own issues. There's a reason for my tagline. Self-actualization is key to being able to start to interact with another. Until you have faced your insecurities and either swept them away or understood them enough to move on, it is difficult to be able to have meaningful relationships without undue stress in one fashion or another. This is not a submissive 'thing', or a BDSM 'thing'. I think this is part of human interaction. This needs to be done for yourself, and it needs to be done for whatever partner you choose. After that, you should have enough self-preservation instincts in place. Those instincts help you to find a person appropriate for you. Then, trust. Learn, know, love yourself. And trust. This is, IMHO, is all that BDSM requires. Jeff

TNstepsout -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 5:56:29 AM)
I know this has nothing specifically to do with what you asked, but isn't there something you can do to help him out in his life that would allow him more time to spend with you? It sounds like he could really use some help. I guess, overall what I'm seeing here, is that he's really stressed and buried under responsibilities and as much as he would like to get away and just enjoy time with you, he can't right now. So, instead of feeling like his relationship with you is the haven from his troubles, it is just another source of responsibility and stress.

pqwinny -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 5:57:54 AM)
my opinion... 1. stay in therapy. it may not be easy but if you are honest with yourself and work hard it will be worth it 2. on the one hand you say 'you can't submit to air' and on the other you balk at an assignment that you feel is too time consuming and/or pointless. Did you consider that all that time spent in doing the assignment could create the opportunity for you to feel submissive gratification by way of knowing that you are doing it for him? And maybe that's exactly why he assigned it.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 7:27:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ChelseaSalome But, at some point, even when a commitment(contract or whatever) is negotiated, there will come a time, I think, that a submissive wonders, "is obeying this command an act of surrender or just plain stupid?" The submissive might love and adore the Dom, she or he may feel completely happy within the relationship with much mutual trust and all that good stuff we want, but the command or punishment seems to be "about" something other than furthering along either the relationship or the growth of the submissive. While there will likely always be moments of frustration and confusion- they should only be moments, and they should be quickly resolved with communication and enlightenment. quote: On the other hand, submission seems to be about "doing it anyway" regardless of the doubts of the submissive. Yeah that's a fallacy that too many martyrs who call themselves subs like to hold onto so they have some justification for their continued suffering. LIFE is sometimes about doing what you gotta do. Relationships are about working towards the fulfillment of everyone. And if doubts are disregarded, you've got problems. quote: At this point, my seriously deep abandonment issues have come smack up against His need to be, ummmm, a bit less than reliable. He has major childcare concerns involving a child with a disability and work concerns that have made it necessary for him to break a few dates in a row and to not have the time for me that he has in the past. Hmm you've got a long history of being abandoned, and now you find yourself attracted to a situation that forces you to re-live your past situation. Coincidence? Re-living the past isn't necessarily bad as long as you make NEW choices. On the other hand, you're also just making it ridiculously hard on yourself. He needs someone really flexible and not committed right now. You need someone very consistent and stable. I think this is a serious compatibility issue. quote: 1)this will never change 2)he is trying to blow you off 3)he will never have time to for you. I know those voices are lying Even if those things are true, I do not have any real evidence or information to support it. He denies each and every one of them. He says that His interest and desire for me and only me is the same as always. We can even go so far as to believe him. However, his INTEREST means nothing when it comes to actual COMMITMENT, and your own personal demons just might mean that this isn't the right choice for you both at this time. quote: But, you know what? I think I have more growth potential with Him. And I love him, which doesn't happen often to me. I am not, by history, foolish with my affections. Potential, at this point, should already be clearly showing itself. The fact that you feel the need to write THIS post at this point should be clear signal to you that this might not be right for you now. As for love...that never makes a relationship work. Have all the love in the world- without commitment and stability, it is just pain. quote: My Ds friends think i am in COMPLETELY in the wrong~they think that I should do it: now exactly as he says, or not speak to him at all ever again and move on, or speak to him sometime way into the future when his life is settled down, but I still have to do the damned assignment While it is regrettable with the mud slinging and emotional uprising, I think it was the right choice. quote: I am strong willed, and there is an innerDom inside of me that argues against my emotional submission at times. I know this, some of it is ok and a good trait under the right circumstances~but I also really want to be a good submissive. I'm not being one tonight at all, I am looking for the magic keys(ideas, experiences,opinions) that will put this in its proper place in the mind of a good submissive and help me look at it differently than I am right now. Stop internalizing the blame already. Sure, you both were kinda fucked up and had your emotional baggage. But you weren't fulfilling eachother and rather than admit it, he tried to lead you on and blame your lack of submission. You obviously need a boring, secure, stable, consistent person to be with. Stick to that, keep working on controlling your emotions and irrationalities, go slow and you'll do fine.

Jasmyn -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 8:02:24 AM)
Find something else to do ... something you're passionate about, perhaps a hobby or creative task you've always wanted to do...but figured you never had the time ... when you've got screeds of spare time sitting around pining for him.. LA is right ... reliving the past isn't a bad or dangerous thing ... it's a matter of reacting differently to the process of that happening ... s'ok, you're past tells you to fear abandonment, that you're maybe doomed to it, damed if you do, damned if you don't ...you're want to feel familiar emotions, familiar self beliefs ... recognise those feelings and urges for what they are ...they aren't you...they are what you became ... Think of this inner turmoil as an opportunity to 'react' differently ... learn to trust ...if he is on the level ... if he is not ...you've learned it's okay to have loved and it's okay to have lost love ... Be happy with you ...

Celeste43 -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 11:56:17 AM)
Sounds like basic incompatibility to me. You have abandonment issues and even though his reasons for not keeping his word are understandable, your reactions are equally understandable. It's sad because when you have been together in the past, things have worked well. Why don't you drop the assignments and planned meetings because you both know this isn't working. Focus on the underlying friendship. Send emails about your days, leave quick voice mails. And don't plan to spend time with him. Tell him that should he suddenly find himself available, he should call. If you're just going to the movies with friends then invite him along but don't cancel on your friends for him. If you were planning a girls day at the spa, tell him you aren't available. Disabled children require enormous amounts of time and energy. I'm surprised he has the energy to eat dinner, yet alone dream up huge assignments which he knows he won't ever get around to checking on. If this relationship should go anywhere, you would one day find yourself as a stepmother to this handicapped child. If you don't think you could possibly handle it, then you need to tell him now.

ChelseaSalome -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 3:45:09 PM)
Thank you so much for the thoughtful, helpful responses~I am nodding my head to totally agreement to so much. I will respond at length in a while~but i wanted to acknowledge everyone's kindness and support

ChelseaSalome -> RE: The Art of Careful Surrender (9/11/2006 8:34:03 PM)
Thanks again for the great insights~this has been very helpful and has given me much to think about. First of all, no question, therapy and self awareness as well as doing the work on me must continue. It is true that I have BIG issues, but have managed to avoid them by only allowing people in my life who never brought them up. I don't want to allow my own crap to keep me from relationships that might ultimately be fabulous. This one has shown great possibilities in the past~I also know this might never get back on good footing. So at worst, I have gained good information about what I do want in a relationship even if this one isn't it. Although I think LA was dead on in her assessments~thank you~I really would rather that my 30 year old traumas not impact my choices for the rest of my frickin' life. I dunno that I want to be better off with the boring and predictable Doms~so that's actually even more incentive to work on all this. I do know that, recently, I have been able to get close to friends who are very straightforward with me and won't indulge me in my rationalizations~so I think that's a step in the right direction. In reflection, I am aware that not only was my acting out destructive, but that his behavior due to stress, sleep deprivation, chaos, etc, was a bit extreme at times in responding to me. Basically, two crazy people~one stomping her feet that he wasn't being Dom enough, and the other finger pointing that she wasn't being submissive enough. Wow, time out. A break must happen here. I broke it off last night, by refusing the HUGE assignment, and telling him that neither of us were getting our needs met in this ~but I made it clear that my feelings about him had not changed. I think, though, that I am not going to be able to incorporate less controlling, less psychotic overreactions without a complete break and a disconnect from this neediness that I feel toward him. I have been quite involved in helping and offering support for his situation and in helping with his child's needs. I work in the healthcare field. So, I have been a good support to him on a practical level, and have been happy to have the opportunity to be useful. I would imagine he is having a hard time seeing that right now when he so recently had to deal with my fit that he couldn't see me on Friday night...... If it is to work out, then I need to be able to re approach the relationship with a new ability to express my needs appropriately~just as he needs to be in a place where he can not feel that my submission is just another obligation. He hasn't had a chance to review or comment on the previous reams of punishments and assignments I've completed~chances are that if I did do what he has assigned, not only would I be not able to do it without resentment, but then he would feel pressured more to "do" something with my scribbles. So~gonna sit on my hands and not do anything about this right now. Just focus on all the stuff I need to do, realizing that the assignment will have to be done at some point and just let it be... Thanks again for all the great insights and input[;)]

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