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RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 10:38:09 AM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline 		Once Fox and I negotiated that was pretty much it. Other than that only mundane necessities are allowed to change things and these we discuss and come to alternatives together.

This is, afterall, a consensual relationship of two people. I think we'd be foolish to not discuss things and change them as necessary.

Breaking of agreed to rules happens once around here because I use corrective punishment and I make it clear and dismissal is the next punishment.

As much as I love him, and I do, he is my slave first and foremost and if that ends so too does the relationship. Continued disobedience is basically stating you do not recognize or respect that relationship and thus you've ended it all ready -- I'd just be opening the door to let you out at that point.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 11:17:45 AM   
MagiksSlave


Posts: 2768
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline 		I personaly think this is totaly disrespectfull and makes their entire dynamic seem kind of fake on both ends but thats my opinion and I guess Im sounding judgmental and I dont wana do that.

Magik's slave

_____________________________

If you’re going through hell keep on moving
don't slow down
if you’re scared dont show it
you might get out
before the devil even knows your there.


-Rodney Atkins-



(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 12:02:11 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i have had one instance of something close to this.. doctors insisted i quit smoking in prep for an upcoming surgery. After several failed atttempts, including using the zyban pills.. i asked Master to just please Make me stop!  i got a huge lesson in naievete.

"Do you really think just because I give the order, you will be able to do it?"
"oh yes, i'm sure of it Sir!"
"Ok.. then stop. now. How's that?"
[timespan, which included my failing out, smoking on the phone, then near Him, then in front of Him, then sharing His cigs.   He never said a word, i got more brazen, and honestly, O/our M/s dynamic suffered SO Many ways]

i finally wailed "Don't You CARE enough to enforce it?"
"Not really.  it was YOUR hoop,  You jump it. I'm not enforcing a rule you set up and charged me with enforcing.  Now I will deal with the lie of pretending to quit, and that will NOt ever happen again, but that's MY rule to enforce."

Others might have seen Him as weak when He didn't react to my smoking. In fact, the only person shamed by it all was ME.  He knew it wasn't a reflection of Him as a Master.  He and HusDom decided together that it was best to let me have my rope until i was ready to do it for internal reasons, not external reasons, while also reminding me that i cannot toss my issues into Their lap to deal with for me.

So basically i'm saying, when W/we observe O/others dynamic, it's hard to tell what unseen factors might be at play, and judging how Another chooses to train, correct, or discipline is really hard, even from the inside sometimes!

(BYW, the smoking thing is being dealt with, i'm on day 4 now, and am working from an attitude of gratefulness, choosing to serve the right Master, not the one in the package.)

(in reply to MagiksSlave)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 12:15:01 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		I think your owner/s took care off this one in a very effective manner, you TOLD them to make a rule, even if for a very good reason and you learned a valuable lesson from your mistake but this really is not the type of behavior i was speaking about.
 
 

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 12:54:47 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

I think your owner/s took care off this one in a very effective manner, you TOLD them to make a rule, even if for a very good reason and you learned a valuable lesson from your mistake but this really is not the type of behavior i was speaking about.
 


Twice, oh, i know.. but from the outside looking in..  it seems very much the same.  My point was exactly that..  when we question why a Dom or Master wouldn't address a certain behavior..  seeing it as a failure on His or Her part to take the sub or slave in hand, etc..   we're assuming we know all the facts.   i think most Doms and Masters out there DO very effective work, but because of privacy issues, They just take the hit and carry on, nobody the wiser.

i just think the question itself assumes Doms or Masters "are putting up with it"  and i contend They probably aren't, we're just not privvy to the details.   i could not name one single Dominant poster here who i could say "will accept less than obediant behavior just to keep the peace" and that's only judging by the types of discussion W/we have here.   It sounds so much like "mine does it right, but the other Ones aren't as good"... i just dissagree.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 5:15:20 PM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i just think the question itself assumes Doms or Masters "are putting up with it"  and i contend They probably aren't, we're just not privvy to the details.   i could not name one single Dominant poster here who i could say "will accept less than obediant behavior just to keep the peace"


Just from reading the various threads this week i can identify i few though i would not name names. At least from the way their subs/slaves speak about them at any rate.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/12/2006 6:36:53 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy
Just from reading the various threads this week i can identify i few though i would not name names. At least from the way their subs/slaves speak about them at any rate.

Oh we see a few regularly every week- both from what subs say and from what doms say.

And really that isn't the problem.  The problem is when it CONTINUES, and when the source of the real problem is allowed to fester.  A sub being disobedient or having a REALLY crap day is surely not the end of the world and it really shouldn't be the end of a really secure relationship.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/13/2006 3:20:45 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross


And really that isn't the problem.  The problem is when it CONTINUES, and when the source of the real problem is allowed to fester.  A sub being disobedient or having a REALLY crap day is surely not the end of the world and it really shouldn't be the end of a really secure relationship.


You are right, we all have those grumbly days but there are a few that you consistently see this from.
 
I also wanted to comment on the fact that while a few dominants replied most of the answers were from subs, pretty much on par with KOM's prediction.

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/17/2006 5:31:28 PM   
diamonddreamlove


Posts: 770
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline 		I can see no reason to lie about my behavior.  If there are extenuating circumstances then He needs to know them and i trust Him to determine the appropriate punishment if He chooses to  punish.  But there again i am not wearing His collar yet and we both know and agree that until that day comes i retain the right to decide if i submit to His wishes or not.  While that is in place we also both know that if i can not comply with His wishes now it would be unlikely that i would comply with them if i am collared.  He commands i obey. 

_____________________________

"Many attempts to communicate are nullified by saying too much." Robert Greenleaf

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/17/2006 6:54:26 PM   
Charis309


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

"Why do or would dominants put up with this kind of behavior from a sub/slave? I mean the sub/slave deliberately disobeying or not following the rules and guidelines set down by their dominant whether or not the dom/domme is present."
 
Sir and i are not in a 24/7 relationship. It was agreed during our prenegotiations that i am not required to obey any command unless i am in his presence. He stated that His reasons for this was that He wanted me to stay the same person i've always been, independent, self supportive and strong (we've known each other 15 years as friends prior to entering our D/s relationship). However when i am in His presence, His word is law - He knows it and more importantly, i know it. Over the past year, there have been certain tasks that have been assigned which have required me to complete while not in His presence, other than that, He still maintains a "Do what you want, if I don't like it, I'll let you know." attitude. It works for us.

< Message edited by Charis309 -- 9/17/2006 7:13:55 PM >

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/17/2006 7:00:23 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		Fast reply:
I don't believe that there is any situation where a submissive would honestly not be able to orient herself toward the circumstances with deference to the D/s or M/s dynamic. No matter what is going on, one can approach a situation and her Dom with the dynamic in mind and express whatever needs to be expressed and do whatever needs to be done while staying in that framework.
I don't believe in "get out of the dynamic free passes". I agree with KOM that that sort of compromise or break in the energy could be detrimental to the integrity of the dynamic (or "personal myth" of the relationship) over time.
In my own relationship, our dynamic is either dialed up or dialed down depending on circumstances. He does the dialing, and no matter how low the dial goes, it is never OFF.


_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to Charis309)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/18/2006 3:48:55 AM   
twicehappy


Posts: 2706
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charis309

It was agreed during our prenegotiations that i am not required to obey any command unless i am in his presence. He stated that His reasons for this was that He wanted me to stay the same person i've always been, independent, self supportive and strong


You are still actually obeying him in that it is by his command you only present certain behaviors in his presence.
 
I am curious though as to why he would say that obeying him out of his presence would change the strong independent person you normally are. I know many subs/slaves myself included who are strong and independent but are in 24/7 relationships. One simply does not preclude the other in any way, shape or form.
 
 

_____________________________

Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations.

The human heart is not a finite container but an ever expanding universe with all the stars contained there in.

(in reply to Charis309)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/18/2006 4:54:43 AM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I do things because I have to out of respect that I chose this AND him. What he decides is always for my own good, it's the best thing for me though not always what *I* want.

I don't have the internal satisfaction that some slaves have from obeying, it comes more from respect for him and the consistant knowledge that he's right, though I DO get more from that than I used to.

I don't agree to things knowing that I'll toss them aside as soon as his back is turned. What a wasted exercise that'd be.

There is more than one way to skin a cat and I'm sometimes given the correct amount of rope to enlighten me.

agirl

(in reply to Bearlee)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/18/2006 9:20:36 PM   
Charis309


Posts: 16
Joined: 5/18/2005
Status: offline
quote:

I am curious though as to why he would say that obeying him out of his presence would change the strong independent person you normally are.  
 

It's a little difficult to explain, but i'll try. Personally, i have a tendancy to change some of my personality traits when i am involved in a relationship. I try to be more like what i think the other person wants me to be rather than who i truly am. It's just something i've always done, and for the most part, don't even realize that i do it. Sir and i have known each other for a very long time and He has seen that i do this. It's my own belief that He doesn't want me to change those parts of myself that aren't quite submissive (sassy, bold, tenacious), so that when we are together, the power exchange is even more intense. For example, He truly enjoys watching me struggle to not say a smart remark. Knowing full well that if we were on the phone, i would go ahead and say it (when on the phone, we interact as we have for the past 15 years, as friends), but also knowing that i know, that in His presence (face to face we switch into D/s mode), i don't dare open my mouth to make any type of smart remark.
I hope my attempt at explaining made things more clear and not more confusing.

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/18/2006 9:33:42 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

i have had one instance of something close to this.. doctors insisted i quit smoking in prep for an upcoming surgery. After several failed atttempts, including using the zyban pills.. i asked Master to just please Make me stop!  i got a huge lesson in naievete.

"Do you really think just because I give the order, you will be able to do it?"
"oh yes, i'm sure of it Sir!"
"Ok.. then stop. now. How's that?"
[timespan, which included my failing out, smoking on the phone, then near Him, then in front of Him, then sharing His cigs.   He never said a word, i got more brazen, and honestly, O/our M/s dynamic suffered SO Many ways]

i finally wailed "Don't You CARE enough to enforce it?"
"Not really.  it was YOUR hoop,  You jump it. I'm not enforcing a rule you set up and charged me with enforcing.  Now I will deal with the lie of pretending to quit, and that will NOt ever happen again, but that's MY rule to enforce."

Others might have seen Him as weak when He didn't react to my smoking. In fact, the only person shamed by it all was ME.  He knew it wasn't a reflection of Him as a Master.  He and HusDom decided together that it was best to let me have my rope until i was ready to do it for internal reasons, not external reasons, while also reminding me that i cannot toss my issues into Their lap to deal with for me.

So basically i'm saying, when W/we observe O/others dynamic, it's hard to tell what unseen factors might be at play, and judging how Another chooses to train, correct, or discipline is really hard, even from the inside sometimes!

(BYW, the smoking thing is being dealt with, i'm on day 4 now, and am working from an attitude of gratefulness, choosing to serve the right Master, not the one in the package.)



While I think the ideal of a Dominant stating that a submissive shoul do X is wonderful, the reality is that it doesnt really work that way in my opinion.

I would tell her to stop smoking.  If she did not, I would simply point out that I am unwilling to be submissive to a pack of cigarettes and move on.

I am more than willing to be the motivation for an action. I am unwilling to be the jailer or torturer to make such action take place.  Some other person has a problem to deal with, I would say "deal with it, then give me a call."

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to Mavis)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Compromising on the D/s or M/s dynamic ? - 9/18/2006 9:39:54 PM   
crouchingtigress


Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline
quote:

How much are any of you willing to compromise your values or give way to undesired behaviors in the search for the "golden" D/s or M/s dynamic we all yearn for? 


who is we? the reason i ask is that i am not yearning for a golden D/s dynamic, i have been there and done that, for me it was not a place i would ever live again. visit, yes all the time, but live never.
 
there is a core reason behind all behaviors, every single person behaves the way they do, guided by an internal compass, weather we are conscious of or unconscious of those reasons, is totally up to us.
 
but hopefully if a person decides to go in to this lifestyle playing at the master slave level they would have the emotional maturity and probing self awareness that it takes to take on their role.

having said that i cant imagine any relationship of any relevance not having a number of compromises in it on a daily basis...that just life...you duck and weave, and go with the flow

 
 
 

_____________________________


Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."




(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 36
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