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ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

caitlyn,

I am going to take a chance and assume that when you say "I hope" that what follows is something you actually mean as opposed to whatever it is you then run around saying you meant. 

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  I hope the current round of "United States invented" opponents are not interested in body counts. That would make them very foolish, and as such, nothing to really be afraid of.

 
If body counts aren't important, and only military ability and might is, why exactly did we leave Vietnam and let our enemy take it over?  Or is it that you could really care less how many of America's brave men and woman are killed or maimed on the battlefield?  If body counts didn't matter, why would people use car bombs or for that matter, are you saying that the innocent men and women who died on 9/11 don't matter because it is just a "body count"
 
The occupation in Iraq, the stuggle to bring peace to the middle east and end the hold extremists have on religion has almost nothing to do with military might and far more to do with body counts.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Um like I said... if you have a problem with my opinion...please state it and not be obscure.

I don't have a problem with your opinion.  I had a problem stating it as non-debatable fact.

Um, why is it that people have trouble understanding that one does not have to frame everything "this is my opinion". I stated an opinion based upon facts that I know of.. If you want to debate that, let me know, but chastising me for the way I frame my opinion is really a moot point... or shall I say... pointless. Most people can recognize a firmly stated opinion when they see one, they do not need it spelled out for them.

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave
Am I wrong in saying that though western intervention may have unleashed the violence we see in Eyeraq today   by and large it is Eyeraqui killing Eyeraqui that is the problem. Have they not the opportunity to form a government and sort things out ?

Only asking ?

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey



I think they do.  All to many people are gullible, unfortunately.  If it is an opinion and clearly stated so then it really doesn't matter if I agree or disagree.  what matters is my willingness to give my life so that you can have that opinion.  but framing opinions as fact then goes to credibility.   Yes your opinions are based upon fact.   That is your intrepretation.   If I had such a problem with an intrepretation then I would debate it, but if I think it isn't such a big deal, just one persons opinion then I will respect it as that.  It is not my place to dictate your opinions.   but changing facts and calling them facts.   Well I sorta hve a problem with that   It does injustice to the gullible and to the credibility of the presenter.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I have never said in any post on here... "This is a non-debatable fact", so why is that assumption made when I have articulated an opinion. Most things that are posted here are after all "just opinions". If I am mistaken in a fact that supports my opinion please clarify for me where I maybe mistaken, but to state that I am declaring my opinions as "undebatable facts" to shoot my opinions down isn't conducive to illuminating truth... For those reading my posts, only take my posts as "indisputable facts" if I outright say that it is... if I haven't said that, it is an opinion. I am not afraid of being mistaken in my facts or opinions after all, I am here to learn.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
in this post you stated that we bribed somebody. That is a statement of fact. Not an opinion. It is provable and therefore non-debatable.

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You also indicated that Republican’s God is Guns, oil and drugs. I am a republican and a Christian. I take great exception to that. No where have I seen where God was defined as Guns, Oil and Drugs.

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Here you state your opinion is based upon fact and how you frame your opinion is not important. I totally disagree. But I answered that disagreement already.

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 You expoused what sounded like your intrepretation of fact which can't be proven.    It didn't sound sarcastic either.   Just sounded like you were presenting facts and I take major exception to the facts as presented.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey



I think they do.  All to many people are gullible, unfortunately.  If it is an opinion and clearly stated so then it really doesn't matter if I agree or disagree.  what matters is my willingness to give my life so that you can have that opinion.  but framing opinions as fact then goes to credibility.   Yes your opinions are based upon fact.   That is your intrepretation.   If I had such a problem with an intrepretation then I would debate it, but if I think it isn't such a big deal, just one persons opinion then I will respect it as that.  It is not my place to dictate your opinions.   but changing facts and calling them facts.   Well I sorta hve a problem with that   It does injustice to the gullible and to the credibility of the presenter.

Im not responsible for how people read my words or their level of gullibility. I will reiterate, almost everything I read on this forum is an opinion, now if others have not learned how to interpret information that is their problem.

If all that was ever written on this board was black and white facts I doubt highly it would be very interesting, nor would people contribute. Almost all social science theory is based upon facts that are interpreted partially with the bias of "educated opinions".

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ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Am I wrong in saying that though western intervention may have unleashed the violence we see in Eyeraq today   by and large it is Eyeraqui killing Eyeraqui that is the problem. Have they not the opportunity to form a government and sort things out ?

Only asking ?

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

My words of calling the coalition payoffs bribes for support is not a new way of framing this occurence.

We have taken over the job that the Brits started, namely the colonization of Iraq, The lines that define Iraq were cultural fictions which have had lasting impacts on the peoples that live there. We are now attempting to make that fiction work by imposing democratic government.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
As to your responsibility, well I was always taught that it was the responsibility of the presenter to make it clear not the listener to understand.  Maybe my teachers had it all wrong

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Forgive me Julia, I may sin...

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
in this post you stated that we bribed somebody. That is a statement of fact. Not an opinion. It is provable and therefore non-debatable.

  

Actually the usage of "bribe" in this particular post was obviously a personal perspective, and not meant to be taken as if there had been some legal trial and judged to be actual bribery.  Someone else could call it simply a barter, or trade, or tax. 

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You also indicated that Republican’s God is Guns, oil and drugs. I am a republican and a Christian. I take great exception to that. No where have I seen where God was defined as Guns, Oil and Drugs.

While it would be an overgeneralization to suggest that ALL republicans feel this way, Julia's statement was very obviously again a figure of speech, to suggest that they treat guns, oil and drugs as if it were their gods- not meant to be taken literally.  You seem to have a problem with deciphering literal vs figurative language.

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Here you state your opinion is based upon fact and how you frame your opinion is not important. I totally disagree. But I answered that disagreement already.

She meant that how she frames it in terms of communicating through specific words and figurative language- not the process of forming an educated opinion itself.

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 You expoused what sounded like your intrepretation of fact which can't be proven.    It didn't sound sarcastic either.   Just sounded like you were presenting facts and I take major exception to the facts as presented.

I think you just entered a debate and got a bit overemotional and are now trying to clean-up by complaining that you didn't realize this was a decate.

I think it's clear now- Julia presented opinions based on facts she believes to be true.  You are free to debate those conclusions and methods, but please stop picking at language and getting all bothered over non-existent problems.

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey

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ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Forgive me Julia, I may sin...

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ORIGINAL: KenDckey
in this post you stated that we bribed somebody. That is a statement of fact. Not an opinion. It is provable and therefore non-debatable.

  

Actually the usage of "bribe" in this particular post was obviously a personal perspective, and not meant to be taken as if there had been some legal trial and judged to be actual bribery.  Someone else could call it simply a barter, or trade, or tax. 

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You also indicated that Republican’s God is Guns, oil and drugs. I am a republican and a Christian. I take great exception to that. No where have I seen where God was defined as Guns, Oil and Drugs.

While it would be an overgeneralization to suggest that ALL republicans feel this way, Julia's statement was very obviously again a figure of speech, to suggest that they treat guns, oil and drugs as if it were their gods- not meant to be taken literally.  You seem to have a problem with deciphering literal vs figurative language.

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Here you state your opinion is based upon fact and how you frame your opinion is not important. I totally disagree. But I answered that disagreement already.

She meant that how she frames it in terms of communicating through specific words and figurative language- not the process of forming an educated opinion itself.

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 You expoused what sounded like your intrepretation of fact which can't be proven.    It didn't sound sarcastic either.   Just sounded like you were presenting facts and I take major exception to the facts as presented.

I think you just entered a debate and got a bit overemotional and are now trying to clean-up by complaining that you didn't realize this was a decate.

I think it's clear now- Julia presented opinions based on facts she believes to be true.  You are free to debate those conclusions and methods, but please stop picking at language and getting all bothered over non-existent problems.

I think I thanked her for her opinion in post 35 and reiterated it in post 49.  My problem is the way she stated things.  It lead me to understand it as a statement of fact.   And yes I have a tendency to take things m uch to literal  I think that started in 1969 when I had to learn how to program computers with wires and was enhanced when I got to use a dumb terminal.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Perhaps I should put a disclaimer in my sig line... "The things in my post and in almost every other post reflect the views and or opinions of the poster and should not be taken literally,we should also make the same disclaimer for everyone else that utters an opinion, especially Faux News and almost every other news outlet....