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A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 8:51:56 AM   
WhipTheHip


Posts: 1004
Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline 		I am guessing most dominants here are not very submissive.
I am guessing most subs want a guy who is really dominant.
How dominant I am really depends upon the situation. If I am
stopped by cop for speeding, I will be submissive out of
practical considerations.  If I am cross-examining a police
officer on the stand, I will be dominant, because I have him
in my element.  In neutral terroritory, I stand my ground.
The more dominant someone gets with me, the more
dominant I become.  The more submissive people are
with me, the more submissive I become.  I am very
reflective.  Usually, I will always be the slightly more
dominant party having the final say.  Occassionaly, I
will meet someone much more intelligent than I am.
In which case, I defer to them, and become more
submissive.. 

_____________________________
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RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 11:49:54 AM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		The archetype of the servant leader comes to mind here.  Humility to know you don't know everything just because you are the one in the control seat appears to be a lost attribute in some dominants these days.  If a teacher comes along, dominance has nothing to do with submitting to that which is beyond your control, and realizing that they may have something of value to offer.  A dominant who recognizes that a teacher can learn from his/her pupil gains much wisdom and insight, not only into "self" but others as well.  Being reflective has its draw backs though, being too reflective can aid in confusion for the other person involved at times.  Other times a mirror is just what is needed.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 11:55:00 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		Attitude and personality are not the same as orientation however.  That doesn't mean that your orientation and attitude have to be diametrically opposed either.  But this is more how you deal with social dynamics rather than your own orientation.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 12:04:40 PM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I am guessing most dominants here are not very submissive.
I am guessing most subs want a guy who is really dominant.
How dominant I am really depends upon the situation. If I am
stopped by cop for speeding, I will be submissive out of
practical considerations.  If I am cross-examining a police
officer on the stand, I will be dominant, because I have him
in my element.  In neutral terroritory, I stand my ground.
The more dominant someone gets with me, the more
dominant I become.  The more submissive people are
with me, the more submissive I become.  I am very
reflective.  Usually, I will always be the slightly more
dominant party having the final say.  Occassionaly, I
will meet someone much more intelligent than I am.
In which case, I defer to them, and become more
submissive.. 


But what if you met the Pope?


_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

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Profile   Post #: 4
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 12:08:32 PM   
raiken


Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
Status: offline 		DUH! You kneel and kiss his ring...duh! *weg*

(in reply to Sab)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 12:13:42 PM   
Sab


Posts: 325
Joined: 5/2/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline 		No kissy, kissy any mans ring! :-0

_____________________________

God blessed it and it brought me to her.

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Profile   Post #: 6
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 12:18:37 PM   
SaphireLynn


Posts: 145
Joined: 2/15/2005
Status: offline 		LOL very good Sab

_____________________________

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
But he that dares not grasp the thorn
Should never crave the rose.
~~~Anne Bronte~~~
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

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Profile   Post #: 7
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 1:55:57 PM   
thetammyjo


Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Attitude and personality are not the same as orientation however. That doesn't mean that your orientation and attitude have to be diametrically opposed either. But this is more how you deal with social dynamics rather than your own orientation.


Exactly.

And most "submissives" I've known are certainly not submissive to everyone or all the time.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 2:15:57 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

Attitude and personality are not the same as orientation however.  That doesn't mean that your orientation and attitude have to be diametrically opposed either.  But this is more how you deal with social dynamics rather than your own orientation.


My thoughts exactly. I don't think that because I am deferring to someone's greater knowledge or position of athority in a given situation it makes me any less who I am.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 3:37:03 PM   
velvetears


Posts: 2933
Joined: 6/19/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I am guessing most dominants here are not very submissive.
I am guessing most subs want a guy who is really dominant.
How dominant I am really depends upon the situation. If I am
stopped by cop for speeding, I will be submissive out of
practical considerations.  If I am cross-examining a police
officer on the stand, I will be dominant, because I have him
in my element.  In neutral terroritory, I stand my ground.
The more dominant someone gets with me, the more
dominant I become.  The more submissive people are
with me, the more submissive I become.  I am very
reflective.  Usually, I will always be the slightly more
dominant party having the final say.  Occassionaly, I
will meet someone much more intelligent than I am.
In which case, I defer to them, and become more
submissive.. 


Being "a" Dominant or "a" submissive is different then being dominant or submissive in particular situations, like the speeding ticket incident you mentioned.   Unless you label youself a switch i think one is always a Dominant or always a submissive.  We each have different personal lives with daily tasks and challenges and how we handle them depends on each particular situation. Using your speeding ticket as an example. i "label" myself as submissive. i have gotten a few speeding tickets over the years. One time i got nasty with the trooper, questioned why he didn't pull over the other drivers who were going a lot faster then myself, make a snide remark as he was leaving etc.  Another time i was pulled over i more or less followed his lead, admitted i was speeding, etc.  First instance i got a ticket, second instance he let me off.  i leanred to behave to benefit myself (save money on having to pay the damn fine!) - Was i submissive with the second trooper, no, i was smarter 

i don't think others should influence your level of dominance or submissiveness unless YOU want them to - ie - you like them, respect them etc.  If someone i did not know got "dominant" with me i would damn well give them back what i got and it doesn't mean i became dominant - it just means i reacted appropriatly to a situation that called for me to behave the way i did.  If a bereaved person comes up to you in their grief and out of consideration you become soft spoken, use kind words, ask them if there is anything you can do for them and perhaps give them a gentle hug, does this all mean you became submissive???  Absolutely not - you were acting appropriately to a situation where it warranted the type of behavior you exhibited. 

Just because we use common sense when dealing with life and respond appropriately has nothing to do with our changing our dominant or submissive identities.   Mybe herein lies the diference between "acting" Dominant and "being" Dominant.

_____________________________

Religion is for people who are scared of hell, Spirituality is for people who have been there

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 3:53:33 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		fast reply,

I have had many people tell me I am strong willed and focused person. I have a great deal of personal power. I am often listened to when I speak, and my point of view is respected when I do. This does not make me a dominant or a submissive. I have said this many times, I cannot give what I do not possess, and I cannot submit what I do not have. Power exchange cannot happen unless power flows from me to him. Whether or not one chooses to let their personal power flow to another at any given time is not just a D/s concept. We are not "submissive" because we allow our personal power to flow a certain direction for a set period of time. We are submissive in my mind because we crave to give control to another. It is a motivation thing and a desire thing. I can have all the power in the world and still be a submissive because I crave to allow someone else to use this personal power the way he sees fit.

My Daddy is a very easy going person. He is very disciplined and polite. He does not think it makes him less dominant to be this way. His dominance over me is a gentle thing, it is not "forceful" but it is tangible... to me. He also has a great deal of personal power, he has a lot of charisma, and when he is polite and easy going it highlights the fact that he is a dominant to me. He has stated many times the fact that I am an assertive person with personal power magnifies the power exchange for him. He can feel that flow I guess. It is heady for him to dominate someone who chooses to submit.

I am a submissive, and submitting is like love in some ways for me... love is an action... so is submission. I choose who to submit to, but I do not choose to be submissive... it is who I am and how I love.

He would have to answer for himself on the other points of whether or not he feels submissive or dominant, I really do not know how he processes things, I can say even when his actions seem submissive, it always feels dominant to me because of how it is done. He addresses service people with respect, but it never looks submissive to me.

As for myself, when I first began my journey on this road I got hung up on these terms and tried to put myself on a continum of sub/dom behaviors. I do not do this anymore, because no matter how much power or authority I gain in the outside world, he can get any of it for his own use. All my skills, all my attributes are his to do with as he will as our relationship progresses...

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/14/2006 3:54:37 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to velvetears)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 4:00:11 PM   
GambitLeBeau


Posts: 76
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Lancashire, UK
Status: offline 		I consider my sexual orientation as entirely seperate to the way I act in everyday life. I'm assertive and quite arrogant usually, though as previously stated in the thread- different situations demand different ways of acting.

The few people I've told that know me IRL are usually very surprised when they find out I'm submissive- I guess nobody expects it anyway, but presumably they generally wouldn't point out the 6 foot guy in the leather jacket as potentially of that orientation.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/14/2006 4:36:29 PM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I am guessing most dominants here are not very submissive.
I am guessing most subs want a guy who is really dominant.
How dominant I am really depends upon the situation. If I am
stopped by cop for speeding, I will be submissive out of
practical considerations.  If I am cross-examining a police
officer on the stand, I will be dominant, because I have him
in my element.  In neutral terroritory, I stand my ground.
The more dominant someone gets with me, the more
dominant I become.  The more submissive people are
with me, the more submissive I become.  I am very
reflective.  Usually, I will always be the slightly more
dominant party having the final say.  Occassionaly, I
will meet someone much more intelligent than I am.
In which case, I defer to them, and become more
submissive.. 


Why do people take NON BDSM activities and try to assign D/s BDSM behaviors to them. Who the hell cares if you behave when stopped by a cop..What does it have to do with the D/s dynamic between a Dominant and a submissive. What you are talking about is behaviors.. NOT characteristics. Sheesh..

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/15/2006 2:56:44 PM   
Slipstreme


Posts: 817
Joined: 1/1/2006
Status: offline 		Anyone should behave in a way that is in their best interest to do so in the real world. For example, if you were stopped by a cop for speeding (your fault and you know it), you would be better off to talk to them in a pleasing manner and defer to them. It means less fines for you, and maybe you will get off scot free. It is the annoyingly mean and arrogant asshat who ends up paying 500 dollars in fines for three different tickets, two of them being charges he didn't actually do. It is survival. You do what you do to get by in life. This has nothing to do with how submissive or Dominant you are.

_____________________________

Living the Dichotomy

Painslut? How about "Endorphin Junkie"?

For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

Alpha of a leather family of four. Master to the slave z.

(in reply to RedSavageSlave)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/16/2006 3:30:35 PM   
wantitnow569


Posts: 75
Joined: 4/22/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I am guessing most dominants here are not very submissive.
I am guessing most subs want a guy who is really dominant.
How dominant I am really depends upon the situation. If I am
stopped by cop for speeding, I will be submissive out of
practical considerations.  If I am cross-examining a police
officer on the stand, I will be dominant, because I have him
in my element.  In neutral terroritory, I stand my ground.
The more dominant someone gets with me, the more
dominant I become.  The more submissive people are
with me, the more submissive I become.  I am very
reflective.  Usually, I will always be the slightly more
dominant party having the final say.  Occassionaly, I
will meet someone much more intelligent than I am.
In which case, I defer to them, and become more
submissive.. 



Wow!! Aren't You just the model of a well balanced man!!Oh, but i have a couple of situation that might help You Jim (jones that is).. What do You do when You come into contact with one of Your good old friends the dominant sexual offender? Hmm.. or how about the submissive sexual offender? hmm..or how about the slave that thinks You and Your proposed religion are so full of shit its sickening...What exactly do You dictate in regard to Your position then?

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/16/2006 5:41:50 PM   
Sunshine119


Posts: 611
Joined: 8/8/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

IIf I am cross-examining a police
officer on the stand, I will be dominant, because I have him
in my element.


Are you an attorney....or do you just pretend to be one of them too at times?

quote:


In neutral terroritory, I stand my ground.  The more dominant someone gets with me, the more
dominant I become. 


Is there a difference between getting more and more "dominant" when someone gets "dominant" with you and just getting more and more aggressive?  Sounds to me you are not describing dominance here.

quote:

The more submissive people are with me, the more submissive I become.  I am very
reflective. 


Once again, I don't think you quite get what dominance and submission are.  I think you might be describing aggression and passivity here, possibly.

quote:

Occassionaly, I will meet someone much more intelligent than I am.
In which case, I defer to them, and become more submissive.. 


A wise person, dominant or submissive should defer to the person who knows more than themselves about a particular subject.  This, again, isn't a measure of dominance or submission, just wisdom. 

It seems, to me at least, that you don't have the slightest understanding of what dominance and submission are.  I am a strong, tall, assertive, responsibility bearing woman in the workplace, who has been extremely outspoken in many arenas.  Yet, my orientation, in intense personal relationships, is one of submission.  Am I submissive to everyone?  No, I would probably be seen as the dominant in some relationships.....if I chose to enter them.  Rather, I am most fulfilled being submissive to "His Highness".  He isn't domineering (as in the way of a bully) in his work, where he is a natural leader.  But, he does accept advice and counsel from those who know more than him in many areas.  This doesn't, in any way diminish his "dominance" in the slightest.

Because of his natural dominance, and his desire to for BDSM and his decision to involve himself with me in a D/s, B&D, Top over bottom, S&M lifestyle, I am very happy to submit totally to him....and I have never been happier.

You may be a top (or not), and you might be into B&D kink.  There is nothing wrong with any of that.  Dominance?  From your posts, if you're not sure what you are, my guess is you are not.  That is, unless you don't have any real time experience, then all bets are off.


_____________________________


Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/16/2006 5:55:14 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		All of you are wrong.  What WTH? is saying is that everyone is a switch if they behave differently at different times.  In order to be a Dominant, you have to control every situation you will ever be in, be it with your sub or when approached by 5 thugs in a back alley.  If you want to be a submissive, you always have to be submissive, especially when a random guy tells you to "kneel, bitch."

If these do not apply, then you are not a true Dom or sub, but actually a switch.

Seriously, I thought I was dealing with smart people on this board.

I'm gonna go hang out with WTH? now and discuss our relative switchiness.

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

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Profile   Post #: 17
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/16/2006 6:47:53 PM   
FangsNfeet


Posts: 3758
Joined: 12/3/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

All of you are wrong.  What WTH? is saying is that everyone is a switch if they behave differently at different times.  In order to be a Dominant, you have to control every situation you will ever be in, be it with your sub or when approached by 5 thugs in a back alley.  If you want to be a submissive, you always have to be submissive, especially when a random guy tells you to "kneel, bitch."

If these do not apply, then you are not a true Dom or sub, but actually a switch.

Seriously, I thought I was dealing with smart people on this board.

I'm gonna go hang out with WTH? now and discuss our relative switchiness.

Yours,
benji


Hey benji, tell your boss to "Shut the fuck up!" Every time a meeting is declaired. Show up for work a few hours late. When asked about it, reply "Go to Hell!" If you ever get fired, start demanding that you can't be fired and that you'll be showing up everyday and will be getting a raise effective immediatly. Everything should work out fine. After all, your dominant personality should have it all smoothed out.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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Profile   Post #: 18
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/16/2006 6:51:26 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		I already do that, and I'm a sub.  Imagine what kind of a Dom I'd be...........

Yours,


benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to FangsNfeet)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: A dominant can be submissive. - 9/16/2006 6:57:24 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

fast reply,

I have had many people tell me I am strong willed and focused person. I have a great deal of personal power. I am often listened to when I speak, and my point of view is respected when I do. This does not make me a dominant or a submissive. I have said this many times, I cannot give what I do not possess, and I cannot submit what I do not have. Power exchange cannot happen unless power flows from me to him. Whether or not one chooses to let their personal power flow to another at any given time is not just a D/s concept. We are not "submissive" because we allow our personal power to flow a certain direction for a set period of time. We are submissive in my mind because we crave to give control to another. It is a motivation thing and a desire thing. I can have all the power in the world and still be a submissive because I crave to allow someone else to use this personal power the way he sees fit.

My Daddy is a very easy going person. He is very disciplined and polite. He does not think it makes him less dominant to be this way. His dominance over me is a gentle thing, it is not "forceful" but it is tangible... to me. He also has a great deal of personal power, he has a lot of charisma, and when he is polite and easy going it highlights the fact that he is a dominant to me. He has stated many times the fact that I am an assertive person with personal power magnifies the power exchange for him. He can feel that flow I guess. It is heady for him to dominate someone who chooses to submit.

I am a submissive, and submitting is like love in some ways for me... love is an action... so is submission. I choose who to submit to, but I do not choose to be submissive... it is who I am and how I love.

He would have to answer for himself on the other points of whether or not he feels submissive or dominant, I really do not know how he processes things, I can say even when his actions seem submissive, it always feels dominant to me because of how it is done. He addresses service people with respect, but it never looks submissive to me.

As for myself, when I first began my journey on this road I got hung up on these terms and tried to put myself on a continum of sub/dom behaviors. I do not do this anymore, because no matter how much power or authority I gain in the outside world, he can get any of it for his own use. All my skills, all my attributes are his to do with as he will as our relationship progresses...


julia I just found this thread again and I must say......So beautifully said.....awsome.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 20
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