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Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 11:27:05 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		This is a video link, if you don't have a high bandwidth connection I am not sure what it will do.

http://www.ifilms.tv/votevetsweb/
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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 11:39:27 AM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Your problem is that you think your elected reps care if soldiers live or die. Based on all of the avilable evidence, I'd say they don't care even the littlest bit. And it's been that way for years. This is the culmination of post-Viet Nam era politics: pointless wars and no support for the vets that fight them.

I'd rather no war, and few standing soldiers.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 11:47:17 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Thanks for your opinion, it is worth every bit of what you charge for it.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 11:51:58 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Good video.   Also very truthful.  Since vietnam I believe that the military was preparing only to fight a convention war where there were clear lines.  Service support troops like most reserves are, weren't equiped with combat equipment because they weren't considered "in the front lines"   Since viet nam budgets barely supported the force and it had to be reduced.  Greater dependency on the reserves and national guard became the rule of the day.  Combat divisions were cut by 1/3 with the remaining force coming out of the Guard.  Corps assets came from the reserve.

Regan tried to build some of it back up but not far enough.  since then the budget has generally declined (if you factor out specific projects like war).  The public is partially to blame for this.  they wanted more expensive weapons with greater technology like smart bombs which are greatly more expensive.   The word was do more with less.  Training budgets were also cut.  This causes an increase in casualties.

A prime example of this, during gulf I the 4th Infantry Division Round out brigade failed their combat qualifications (mostly due to lack of training).  The back fill had to be from the 197th Infantry Brigade (a corps asset) that is generally targeted for support when things get critical elsewhere or to fill gaps.

This is a trend that was repeated following all wars.  That is why the 3rd Infantry Regiment is the only unit that can trace its history back to the Revolutionary War.  Post war pressure by the people to disarm and reduce the size of the military.  The evidence is in the movie.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 12:02:38 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Are we disagreeing in some way, CrappyDom?

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 12:07:44 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		The only disagreement I have is that it isn't an indictment against Republicans as it is against Americans in general because of our belief system.   Same thing (sorta) happens following all wars.  Then when the next war comes along we aren't prepared adequately.  This being just one exxxxample.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 12:18:34 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, but the Constitution doesn't favor standing armies. It favors a militia.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 12:49:29 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Ken,

The only problem is that this was an almost party line split.  Dems don't mind paying for things that take care of common soldiers, Republicans only want things that put money into the hands of their contributors.

Even if you don't see it that way, many vets do and you can bet the loved ones of many do so as well. 

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 1:08:58 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Then why do so many Vets seemingly support Republican viewpoints?

I have long observed that people often act against their own political interests. I guess they are either misinformed, altruistic to a fault, or just plain stupid.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 1:19:16 PM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		That guy is standing really close. I'm curious if the lesser vest would stop bullets from an AK-47 at a greater range. Maybe Ken, IronBear or John Warren might know.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 1:23:28 PM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		Caitlyn,

Vests don't for the most part stop bullets from much of anything.  Most vests won't stop a hot 9mm round and very very few will stop a round out of the old comblock Tokerev.

What actually stops bullets on the newer vests is some sort of plate, now often a lamination of ceramic and steel.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 1:36:40 PM   
Rumtiger


Posts: 2634
Joined: 3/4/2006
From: Vegas
Status: offline 		Craps beat me to it, military body armor is designed to have ceramic plates as described inserted into it which is what stops the actual rifle rounds.

There is some new body armor that soldier's families are buying them cause they cant get proper equipment, namly this stuff called dragonskin.

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 2:37:49 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

That guy is standing really close. I'm curious if the lesser vest would stop bullets from an AK-47 at a greater range. Maybe Ken, IronBear or John Warren might know.


depends on lots of things   like is it armor piercing, distance muzzle velocity, solid, jacketed, hollow point (which is probably the most common round).

and the old jackets had steel plates in them  the steel plates didn't go over each other so where you hit made a difference   I just re-watched the jacket and it didn't appear to have the plates (lots of guys took the plates out because they were heavy)   the plates didn't always stop a round either   like I said lots of factors

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 2:39:31 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Caitlyn,

Vests don't for the most part stop bullets from much of anything.  Most vests won't stop a hot 9mm round and very very few will stop a round out of the old comblock Tokerev.

What actually stops bullets on the newer vests is some sort of plate, now often a lamination of ceramic and steel.


The new ones also use layered kevlar

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RE: Great ad against Republicans! - 9/15/2006 2:42:54 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		you know    regardless of what anyone thinks of the new or old vests (and I favor the new ones) they stop more bullets and shrapnel than a cotton/poly uniform shirt   that is like the old M-1 helmet vs the new k-pot   the new k-pot helmet covers more of the head and is lighter  I was never issued one so I won't comment on their efffectiveness but I sorta like the idea of greater coverage   stops more bullets than air and hair

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