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Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/16/2006 11:34:50 AM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		This is not my corner of the forum.  If it's real, I'm not interested.

Having said that, the name of this thread came up in AOL news.

My first thought was......... has to be in Georgia.  <click>

Byline, Stillmore, GA ...... <click>  (Like I'm actually going to read the thing.)

Jeff

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/16/2006 11:42:24 AM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Immigrant...or ILLEGAL immigrant?


Small price to pay when you consider how corporations have been replacing American jobs
with ILLEGAL workers.

The CEO's should be brought up on charges as far as i'm concerned.

Thats what you get for profitting off of human suffering.

I suspect they were making a quarter amount of what the original workers were making.


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IMMIGRATION_AFTERMATH?SITE=WABEL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT



Oh..I forgot...the groups Mecha and La Raza says the American South belongs to Mexico and they plan on taking it back
by overpopulating it.

Border?

What border?

< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 9/16/2006 11:49:10 AM >

(in reply to mstrjx)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/16/2006 11:57:13 AM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		I agree with the raid and any ultimate deportations of ILLEGAL immigrants.  there is a legal process that can be followed.  Those that follow it are LEGAL immigrants.  Those that don't are criminals and should be treated as such.


(in reply to sissifytoserve)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/16/2006 9:19:58 PM   
WetHotGoddess


Posts: 128
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline 		It breaks my fucking heart that there are no illegals to work in the chicken processing plants and that the local economy (which was apparently thriving because of illegal workers) is now hurting. 
I also understand that there is some wonderful saint of a woman who owns a day care and is keeping Mexican babies (who were born american citizens) because Mommy got deported.
 
I am still waiting for the politician who is willing to amend the constitution to say that every ILLIGAL IMMIGRANT kid born on American soil is NOT an automatic citizen. 
 
The first MF who tackles that subject WILL get my support.
 
The fact that these people can break the law and get unending sympathy makes me want to break the law myself!
 
 
 

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 12:10:18 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess

It breaks my fucking heart that there are no illegals to work in the chicken processing plants and that the local economy (which was apparently thriving because of illegal workers) is now hurting. 
I also understand that there is some wonderful saint of a woman who owns a day care and is keeping Mexican babies (who were born american citizens) because Mommy got deported.
 
I am still waiting for the politician who is willing to amend the constitution to say that every ILLIGAL IMMIGRANT kid born on American soil is NOT an automatic citizen. 
 
The first MF who tackles that subject WILL get my support.
 
The fact that these people can break the law and get unending sympathy makes me want to break the law myself!
 
 
 


I didn't realize that we had a shortage of High School Dropouts to do those jobs.
This is all about money, big cos hiring for half what it would cost to hire American Citizens!
I hope they go bankrupt and lose everything.
As for the Illegal Aliens GTFO!

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 5:58:43 AM   
caitlyn


Posts: 3473
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline 		No offense meant to anyone, but as usual, this issue is being addressed with emotion and not with logic.
 
For the class of people that want to come here to work, the system set up for them to do it, is too difficult. What are they supposed to do, get online with their high speed internet connection and download the form?
 
Constantly screaming. "they are illegal, they are illegal" isn't the point. Of course they are illegal. The only thing they are more of than illegal, is hungry and looking for work.
 
We need a system that allows people to come here and work, WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED, monitors them, and keeps them from taking jobs WHERE THERE IS A SUFFICIENT LABOR POOL OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, to do these jobs.
 
Why can't we just do that, instead of engaging in these banal and frankly mindless debates about the letter of the law.

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 6:06:13 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The problem is there are millions who have not had the chance to make the legal immigration, because the illegal aliens make the quota we accept from their countries small. The number of legal immigrants we accept is affected by the number of illegal aliens we have already here. So basicly they have "cut to the head of the line". I'm all for streamlining the process if we can do so with reasonable safeguards to prevent terrorists and other violent criminals out. NOTE I specified reasonable safeguards I don't expect 100% efficiency at keeping them out I expect some reasonable level of background checking to be policy.

The trouble I have with illegals is fairly simple they cut the line and put others on a longer wait to get in to the US and start thier dream.

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 8:36:11 AM   
LadyJulieAnn


Posts: 979
Joined: 6/29/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

The problem is there are millions who have not had the chance to make the legal immigration, because the illegal aliens make the quota we accept from their countries small. The number of legal immigrants we accept is affected by the number of illegal aliens we have already here. So basicly they have "cut to the head of the line". I'm all for streamlining the process if we can do so with reasonable safeguards to prevent terrorists and other violent criminals out. NOTE I specified reasonable safeguards I don't expect 100% efficiency at keeping them out I expect some reasonable level of background checking to be policy.

The trouble I have with illegals is fairly simple they cut the line and put others on a longer wait to get in to the US and start thier dream.


How can that be the case if they are illegal and not registered in order to be monitored?  I think the issue is more one of incompetency and inefficiency of the INS itself.

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 12:04:55 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

No offense meant to anyone, but as usual, this issue is being addressed with emotion and not with logic.
 
For the class of people that want to come here to work, the system set up for them to do it, is too difficult. What are they supposed to do, get online with their high speed internet connection and download the form?
 
Constantly screaming. "they are illegal, they are illegal" isn't the point. Of course they are illegal. The only thing they are more of than illegal, is hungry and looking for work.
 
We need a system that allows people to come here and work, WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED, monitors them, and keeps them from taking jobs WHERE THERE IS A SUFFICIENT LABOR POOL OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, to do these jobs.
 
Why can't we just do that, instead of engaging in these banal and frankly mindless debates about the letter of the law.


Caitlyn, there are simply too many people from around the world who want to come here.
It is not up to the U.S. to provide them with jobs or food.
Why aren't their own countries providing them with those things?
And if they don't then they need to change their govt's.
As for jobs I think I read somewhere that the total number of agricultural workers that we need in this country is about 600,000.
Now they're saying that there are 20 million illegal aliens in our country.
We simply can't have 20 million illegal aliens in this country.
One thing that people need to understand is that immigration to any country is not a "right."
Our govt. is absolutely Derilict in it's duties to defend our borders and to get all those people deported.
That's the job and if anyone in govt doesn't want to do it or doesn't like that job they need to get out of govt. service by either being voted out of office or resigning their position.
You don't accept a job and then go about doing what (you) want to do instead of performing the job descriptions.
I and a lot of people in this country think we need to have a good long break on all immigration until we can get all the illegals out of this country, say 20 years.
It's not going to happen in a month that's for sure. It took 20 years for this problem to get so out of control and it may take 30 or 40 years to fix it.
There is no "labor shortage" in this country.
To Companies large and small there is a "shortage" of people who will work for $6 per hour. And anyone who thinks that those companies "pass along the savings to the consumer" they must believe in the Easter Bunny.
I wonder if we were allowing 100's of thousands of lawyers into this country and the pay rates started falling for American lawyers how long that situation would be allowed to continue?
But it's alright to do it to construction workers? Engineers? Scientists?
These companies are Openly Breaking the Law!
And no-one in OUR govt. is doing anything about it!
Hiring illegal aliens is a Federal Felony!!!

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 9/17/2006 12:06:37 PM >

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 1:53:14 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

No offense meant to anyone, but as usual, this issue is being addressed with emotion and not with logic.
 
For the class of people that want to come here to work, the system set up for them to do it, is too difficult. What are they supposed to do, get on line with their high speed internet connection and download the form?
 
Constantly screaming. "they are illegal, they are illegal" isn't the point. Of course they are illegal. The only thing they are more of than illegal, is hungry and looking for work.
 
We need a system that allows people to come here and work, WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED, monitors them, and keeps them from taking jobs WHERE THERE IS A SUFFICIENT LABOR POOL OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, to do these jobs.
 
Why can't we just do that, instead of engaging in these banal and frankly mindless debates about the letter of the law.


Maybe they should ask the Iranian woman who is the first space tourist.  She fled Iran at age 16, came to America.. taught herself English.. when to college  and got a degree in  Computer Engineering, created a company that sold for $1,000,000s and the $20 million is chump change she can afford to fly to the space station.    Oh.. and she also learned Russian so she could communicate while there.
 
America is the land of opportunity.  Opportunity does NOT mean "handouts".  She made use of the opportunities.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/17/2006 1:55:28 PM >

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 2:20:17 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

No offense meant to anyone, but as usual, this issue is being addressed with emotion and not with logic.
 
For the class of people that want to come here to work, the system set up for them to do it, is too difficult. What are they supposed to do, get online with their high speed internet connection and download the form?
 
Constantly screaming. "they are illegal, they are illegal" isn't the point. Of course they are illegal. The only thing they are more of than illegal, is hungry and looking for work.
 
We need a system that allows people to come here and work, WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED, monitors them, and keeps them from taking jobs WHERE THERE IS A SUFFICIENT LABOR POOL OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, to do these jobs.
 
Why can't we just do that, instead of engaging in these banal and frankly mindless debates about the letter of the law.


I am not opposed to a guest worker program of some kind.   But then that would make them legal and not criminals wouldn't it.  I wonder why there are those that support the criminal over the legal ones.

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 2:28:30 PM   
LTRsubNW


Posts: 1604
Joined: 5/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

No offense meant to anyone, but as usual, this issue is being addressed with emotion and not with logic.
 
For the class of people that want to come here to work, the system set up for them to do it, is too difficult. What are they supposed to do, get online with their high speed internet connection and download the form?
 
Constantly screaming. "they are illegal, they are illegal" isn't the point. Of course they are illegal. The only thing they are more of than illegal, is hungry and looking for work.
 
We need a system that allows people to come here and work, WHERE THEY ARE NEEDED, monitors them, and keeps them from taking jobs WHERE THERE IS A SUFFICIENT LABOR POOL OF AMERICAN CITIZENS, to do these jobs.
 
Why can't we just do that, instead of engaging in these banal and frankly mindless debates about the letter of the law.


Well said.

One of the other things that most people forget when they spout off about people that hire these guys and then yell "Hang the bastards" is;  People are buying these services and products because they're less expensive.

Stop buying products manufactured by illegal labor and poof...the problem will go away.

CEO's are only providing what you pay for.

Buy the stuff manufactured only with legal American, higher priced workers and guess what?  Those manufacturers (and CEO's) will hire more expensive American workers.

It's really that simple.

< Message edited by LTRsubNW -- 9/17/2006 2:31:01 PM >

(in reply to caitlyn)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 3:02:07 PM   
gooddogbenji


Posts: 5094
Joined: 11/15/2005
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Thats what you get for profitting off of human suffering.

I suspect they were making a quarter amount of what the original workers were making.



Define suffering and profiit?  Is downsizing making people suffer?  Yes.  Does it allow for the company to keep operating?  Yes.  Is it a net good thing?  Usually.

Is not giving a coffee break per hour suffering?  To some, yes.  So?

Do you buy products made in China, India, or anywhere else except Western Europe, North America, or Japan?  In that case, not only are you supporting companies that pay their people very little, you are also undermining the American economy.

Good whine, though.

Yours,


benji

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 3:43:50 PM   
LotusSong


Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve


Oh..I forgot...the groups Mecha and La Raza says the American South belongs to Mexico and they plan on taking it back
by overpopulating it.



If they would bother to learn our culture, they would realize it's about supply and demand. The more "bodies"  there are make  them less valuable.  If they are plentiful, they will be expendable.  They are breeding slaves is all, and the very situation they have left  behind, is what they bring with them.

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 5:24:31 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		What I don't understand is why the uproar over criminals?   We don't usually do the same thing for rapists and murders?  We don't usually do the same thing for petty thieves and thugs?   So what makes these criminals so special?  Because they are from another country?  Becasue the country they are from isn't as bountyful as ours?

Illegal is stil illegal.   Instead of whining about their plight, why don't we work on laws to allow them to be here legally?  then they won't be criminals.

(in reply to LotusSong)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 5:27:45 PM   
WetHotGoddess


Posts: 128
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline 		One thing people tend to overlook is the burden these people cause to the schools, police depts, prisons and health care institutions.  Sure, they provide cheap labor but when their kids grow up, they will be legal citizens and they will refuse to work for those same wages.
While corporate america looks for cheap labor, Americans with trade skills are becoming a part of history.  This country became great because of the industrial age and we are very rapidly losing those skills. When these immigrants kids get those same jobs, you better believe they'll be paid top dollar for those skills.
And yeah- carpentry, landscaping, brick laying, concrete work, and textile work takes skill.  
 

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Your opinion is very important to us. Please hold for the next available representative.

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 5:39:20 PM   
sadisticmaster11


Posts: 21
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		being  an illegal alien is illegal and the only taxes they are not paying are federal and state income taxes.  They pay more in sales taxes than any of us.  If we spent as much money making them legal as we do deporting them, we could get the federal and state taxes sooner.

Having illegal aliens is a great way to have a cheap labor force.  It puts us  on par with the 3rd world nations that have cheap labor and are taking our jobs away from us.

Every new group of immigrants that has come into this nation has bettered itself in two or three generations and have become mainstream Americans.  We who are born here are not being replaced, but are being supplemented and changed by the new arrivals.

We should embrace them and realize the world is coming to us.

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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 5:47:55 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		President Bush asked Congress in a State of the Union address to "reform our immigration laws so they reflect our values and benefit our economy. I propose a new temporary-worker program to match willing foreign workers with willing employers when no Americans can be found to fill the job. This reform will be good for our economy, because employers will find needed workers in an honest and orderly system. A temporary-worker program will help protect our homeland, allowing border patrol and law enforcement to focus on true threats to our national security."

http://immigration.about.com/od/laborjobissues/i/GuestWorkrIssue.htm


The largest national turnout of protests occurred on
April 10, 2006, in 102 cities across the country. Crowds in several cities were estimated to be in excess of 100,000 people. Almost all of the protests were peaceful and attracted considerable media attention, although there was also controversy over what many people considered anti-American symbolism at some of the protests. Additional protests took place on May Day and a many protesters that day carried portraits of revolutionary icon Che Guevara. Socialists and others left-wing organizations joined the protesters.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_United_States_immigration_reform_protests


My opinion is that if the Socialists and other left wing organizations didn’t like the legislation, then work to change it instead of working to keep the illegals just that criminals.

(in reply to sadisticmaster11)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 9:02:55 PM   
GreySaber


Posts: 46
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline 		Immigration is bad for everyone. Immigrants, legal or illegal, contribute to urban sprawl, which reduces farm land, farm land that is currently feeding a large percentage of the world. If this trend contenues there will be a famine.

They reduce the population pressure in their own countries by overpopulating where ever they do go, thus cauing population propblems elsewhere, thus contributing to the largest problem the world face... (Yep. Overpopulation.) .

Ranchers along the boarder are suffering for large amounts of vandlism and theif from illegals.

Further, if you think you aren't paying for them, you're wrong. Schools have cut everything except the most basic programs to pay for teachers who can teach in other languges... who are being paid at your expence. Hosptial Emergency rooms are over flowing with immigrants who do not go to a family doctor... at your expence.  Illegals who get lost in the desert are rescued at your expence.


We have more then enough people in this country now. IT is now estimated that by 2050 we will have one billion people in this country............due to immigration. (This is the US census department's numbers.) This of it like this........... for every car on the road now when you drive to work, by 2050 there will be five.

(in reply to KenDckey)
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RE: Immigrant Raid Cripples Town - 9/17/2006 9:44:28 PM   
StrongButKind


Posts: 136
Joined: 10/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sadisticmaster11

They pay more in sales taxes than any of us.


How's that?
quote:



If we spent as much money making them legal as we do deporting them, we could get the federal and state taxes sooner.



Interesting. What are the numbers on this, or are you making it up? 

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