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selfish - 9/16/2006 7:48:05 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		I don't know if its because its been over a year since I've been in a long term D/s relationship, or what, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that my submissive inclinations are, at root, very selfish.  I have a need to serve, but that need is there regardless of whether or not there is a Dominant in my life so it can't be a reflection of a particular relationship.  If I assume certain positions in the course of regular, non-bd/sm life, I immediately feel more relaxed because it's also a position I associate with submission (for ex, on my knees for whatever reason).  In the past, I've always understood D/s as an exchange that required two parties, a Dominant and a submissive, and needed interaction with a Dominant in order to 'feel' submissive. 

But, I'm getting the sense that either I misunderstood, or am changing or something else.  Is it possible to go into a submissive space without any Dominant input?  Has anyone else experienced this, or heard of it?


Profile   Post #: 1
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 7:55:25 PM   
OhReallyNow


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Is it possible to go into a submissive space without any Dominant input?  Has anyone else experienced this, or heard of it?

this slave does not, and has never measured her surrender by whether or not she was owned or not.
Before this slave met Master, she was submissive in many ways; the general public just does not pay attention to such behavior  In addition to this, before meeting Master, this slave held onto many rituals that had been put into practice by her first Master. IE; kneeling before entering the bed, giving thanks for being able to serve in small way on a given day. This slave did not do these things to 'keep herself in a submissive space' but rather because they were familiar, and gave her a sense of peace.
 
if kneeling gives you a sense of peace within, this slave see's no reason why one would question it, whether you were serving someone or not

_____________________________

~ When anger rises, think of the consequences
CONFUCIUS ~

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 8:01:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Can I ask if there is something inherently evil about enjoying your lifestyle choice? Is it selfish to live in a way that fulfills you? are you a Martyr? We all are selfish to some degree, and submissives are not exempt from choosing ways to live that suit them. If a dominant does not suit you, then you are not going to stay with that person. If  job does not suit you, then you are not going to keep it.

I think what you are finding is that certain ways of being suit you more than others perhaps? I know that as I discovered my submissiveness some of the chip came off my shoulder. I felt more at ease within my skin. Feeling natural within and accepting of self is not "selfish", it is just embracing who you are. It is also you paying more attention to how you naturally relate to the world, which when you embrace yourself feels natural, yet different... or perhaps I read your post wrong?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 8:19:37 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Can I ask if there is something inherently evil about enjoying your lifestyle choice? Is it selfish to live in a way that fulfills you? are you a Martyr? We all are selfish to some degree, and submissives are not exempt from choosing ways to live that suit them. If a dominant does not suit you, then you are not going to stay with that person. If  job does not suit you, then you are not going to keep it.

I think what you are finding is that certain ways of being suit you more than others perhaps? I know that as I discovered my submissiveness some of the chip came off my shoulder. I felt more at ease within my skin. Feeling natural within and accepting of self is not "selfish", it is just embracing who you are. It is also you paying more attention to how you naturally relate to the world, which when you embrace yourself feels natural, yet different... or perhaps I read your post wrong?


I'm not sure how you read my post, but I didn't mean to imply that I thought there was anything 'bad' about the change I was sensing.  To be sure, because I'm not a martyr, I'm pretty comfortable being selfish.  I've just become intensely aware of how much its about me and am puzzling over how this jibes with what I had always thought of as an exchange.

And, yes, ohreallynow, it is a feeling of being at peace. :)

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 4
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 8:22:35 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I take selfish as being somehow someone feeling like they are being "bad"

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 8:30:32 PM   
OhReallyNow


Posts: 249
Joined: 9/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I'm not sure how you read my post, but I didn't mean to imply that I thought there was anything 'bad' about the change I was sensing.  To be sure, because I'm not a martyr, I'm pretty comfortable being selfish.  I've just become intensely aware of how much its about me and am puzzling over how this jibes with what I had always thought of as an exchange.

one thing this slave has learned is that submission and surrender are really very selfish acts ( this is only this slave's opinion ) WE want that feeling that comes from it; we submit because it is what WE need, and desire.
if one does not get enjoyment out of their submission, then it becomes meaningless. However, this feeling does not need to be directed at a single person; you can FEEL it everyday, despite who it is directed at.
 
this slave receives immense enjoyment from her work; in a sense, she serves others while working, and in return, gets enjoyment, and a sense of peace from it.
this slave finds enjoyment in the serving of her unmentionable
 
this slave does not think that one must be serving a Dominant or Master only to receive that sense of enjoyment and peace.

_____________________________

~ When anger rises, think of the consequences
CONFUCIUS ~

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 8:45:47 PM   
DivaDuchess


Posts: 402
Joined: 8/17/2006
Status: offline 		Always be comfortable in your own skin.  I as a Dominant would always insist that even My slaves are able to be free to be at peace even without My presence.  Having no shame in your choice of lifestyle is a good thing.  Something to be proud of is taking pride who you are.  Cudos to you and keep up the good work.

_____________________________

Duchess

Courage is not the absence of Fear,
But rather the judgement that,
Something else is more important than Fear.

The Brave may not live forever,
But the Cautious do not live at all.

(in reply to OhReallyNow)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 10:05:46 PM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		All  human beings are selfish. Even ones who dedicate them selves totally to charity work are selfish because they are doing it because it makes themselves the most happiest. Selfish is only a problem just like anything else and that is when it hurts others around you.

Your comments to me just seem to be a person who is very self aware. You have now had some distance from your last relationship and the contrast have made you more self aware. I think that is a good thing. Your ability to go into sub moments by yourself to me is just someone who is firmly in control of themselves and that is always a good thing. I am sure what you are doing now is helping you cope not being owned but will never replace that. Bravo to you.



(in reply to DivaDuchess)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 11:24:45 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		i have two resting positions that soothe me.  One of them, Even before Hubby would admit to having a dominant side, i would sleep in something like a kneeling bowing position by his side and it was centering for me.  It obviously wasn't related to submission to HIM, He would not accept my submission.  That was for Me.  i dont think it was selfish.  It fed my spirit.  

i use that by myself if i am reflecting on something, it's almost meditative.  While sometimes that position is clearly related to surrender when i am in the company of my Leads, it doesn't have to be related to anyone to be the right way for me to align myself with my universe.  Positions have only the meaning you give to them.

Don't feel you need a "target audience" to be who you are.  

(in reply to toservez)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 11:55:44 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		No you're not being selfish at all.
I've been without a sub/slave for two years this week now but I'm still always a Dominant in my life. It's just how I look at life.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: selfish - 9/16/2006 11:59:26 PM   
ready3learn


Posts: 6
Joined: 8/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I don't know if its because its been over a year since I've been in a long term D/s relationship, or what, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that my submissive inclinations are, at root, very selfish.  I have a need to serve, but that need is there regardless of whether or not there is a Dominant in my life so it can't be a reflection of a particular relationship.  If I assume certain positions in the course of regular, non-bd/sm life, I immediately feel more relaxed because it's also a position I associate with submission (for ex, on my knees for whatever reason).  In the past, I've always understood D/s as an exchange that required two parties, a Dominant and a submissive, and needed interaction with a Dominant in order to 'feel' submissive. 

But, I'm getting the sense that either I misunderstood, or am changing or something else.  Is it possible to go into a submissive space without any Dominant input?  Has anyone else experienced this, or heard of it?


In the past I have often been troubled by this very thought.  Am I attracted to dominant Women...in general...because I wish to serve them...or by wanting to serve am I really serving my own, selfish desires?

I, like you,  have a general inclination toward servitude.  However, I don't submit to everyone I encounter...and in fact will only willingly submit my enitre entity to a Woman who has earned that trust.  Some may earn my time, or effort, or thoughts...but only a special Woman will earn all of that and more...all at once.

So then, I think it's only natural for everyone to seek a set point, a place where balance can be achieved.  I could never have a relationship with a generally submissive Woman...and I am sure they would have no interest in me.  Nature works this way for a reason. 

We are attracted to people who possess the qualities we are attracted to...no more and no less.  Some men like blondes, some athletic types, some like intellectuals, others like Women with nice legs...and they make no appologies for it.  Most men are this way in general.

However, there are some who are attracted to personality traits...which one could argue is a much deeper form of attraction.  I am one of those people...and have made peace with that. 

mike

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: selfish - 9/17/2006 12:31:05 AM   
slave4Darby3d


Posts: 106
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline 		Submissiveness as selfish - what a novel concept.  After thinking about it from my own point of view - I agree, it is.  But that does not imply that it is negative.

You can be submissive without having a Dominant in your life, too.  It comes back to that philosophical question...if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound?  You are what you are.  It does not take someone else to recognize it for you to be who and what you are.

But, also for me, I did not even start to feel fulfilled until I had a "purpose" - a place to be, a Master to serve.  It so much deepened my understanding of myself.  And, I think that's why I understand now that it is a little selfish.

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: selfish - 9/17/2006 12:48:11 AM   
closertonova


Posts: 50
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, the whole idea you would do something wholy for someone else is an intresting idea, you always get something out of it. I submit because it is what i desire, if i did not wish to, i wouldn't be a submissive, i am handing my Dom the responsiblity to guide both of us in our lives, it is not a responsiblity i would want. It is a selfish act, but in His own right, as He said my Doms desire to control not only his life but my own is a selfish act. As i bow to him, i do it for his pleasure, to please myself, and he desires the interaction as much as i do, isn't that the best thing imaginable? both people with selfish intent meet in the middle and meet each others needs? i guess my point is, submission is selfish, but so is Dominace, and it works, you give of yourself for what you get back, at least i do.

(in reply to slave4Darby3d)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: selfish - 9/17/2006 8:44:03 AM   
MistressMelissa


Posts: 226
Joined: 11/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

I don't know if its because its been over a year since I've been in a long term D/s relationship, or what, but the more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that my submissive inclinations are, at root, very selfish.  I have a need to serve, but that need is there regardless of whether or not there is a Dominant in my life so it can't be a reflection of a particular relationship. 


There is a miss conception that submissive people serve out of some selfless goodness. The gift of submission and all that. Humans are selfish people by nature. If you did not find any self satisfaction in what you are doing, you would not do it. Things that give us pleasure we repeat. Things that bring us pain we avoid. Unless your a masochist, but that's another story.  Good pain vs. bad pain and all that.. Simply put, it pleases you to please others. For some this need is satisfied by simply helping others. For some, it needs to be much deeper and can lead to self destructive behavior. My job as an owner is to provide the slave with a safe environment that they can fulfill their desires to a level that comforts them, without them harming themselves. The flip side to that is, since I am selfish by nature as well, I get to own slaves. I don't create the slave, I just allow the slave to reach their full potential. I can't enslave anyone, but by creating the right environment, I can allow them to enslave themselves.

quote:


If I assume certain positions in the course of regular, non-bd/sm life, I immediately feel more relaxed because it's also a position I associate with submission (for ex, on my knees for whatever reason).  In the past, I've always understood D/s as an exchange that required two parties, a Dominant and a submissive, and needed interaction with a Dominant in order to 'feel' submissive. 


These little rituals help bring you pleasure. Either they bring you peace on there own or they trigger memories that bring you peace. I suspect the latter. Humans like Pavlov's dog can be conditioned to respond to stimuli. Some use it to teach slaves to cum on command, others use it in a broader everyday sense. We call it training. Again, as an owner, all I can do is provide the ying to the yang. While an electric guitar can be played without an amplifier, so can a slave find release. But when you plug that guitar into the amplifier..wow.. the things that can be done.

quote:


But, I'm getting the sense that either I misunderstood, or am changing or something else.  Is it possible to go into a submissive space without any Dominant input?  Has anyone else experienced this, or heard of it?


I suspect that over the years you have conditioned yourself. Many of your everyday fixes are being satisfied through conditioned responses and memories from past service. That is why people find peace in ritual. Example: when you kneel you remember how it felt to kneel before your master.

Since I don't know you this is speculation based upon what you have said. At the very least, it is something to ponder.

Be Well,




< Message edited by MistressMelissa -- 9/17/2006 9:07:26 AM >

_____________________________

Melissa
Mistress of Ds Haven
www.dshaven.com

The person who says it can not be done, should not interrupt the person doing it. - Ancient Wisdom

(in reply to gypsygrl)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: selfish - 9/17/2006 1:19:09 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa
My job as an owner is to provide the slave with a safe environment that they can fulfill their desires to a level that comforts them, without them harming themselves. The flip side to that is, since I am selfish by nature as well, I get to own slaves. I don't create the slave, I just allow the slave to reach their full potential. I can't enslave anyone, but by creating the right environment, I can allow them to enslave themselves.


M'Melissa,   Very well put, Maam.

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: selfish - 9/17/2006 2:01:44 PM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MistressMelissa

My job as an owner is to provide the slave with a safe environment that they can fulfill their desires to a level that comforts them, without them harming themselves. The flip side to that is, since I am selfish by nature as well, I get to own slaves. I don't create the slave, I just allow the slave to reach their full potential. I can't enslave anyone, but by creating the right environment, I can allow them to enslave themselves.


What a lovely way of putting things into perspective.  i have never been owned but i have always had deep feelings of submissiveness.  i enjoy outlets within the vanilla world because i am not able to have them any other way. This may be in the form of volunteer work or even the kind of job i have.  The need to serve is always there. 

i sincerely thank the OP for allowing me to see that i'm okay in my solitude and that i don't necessarily need a partner to be whole.


_____________________________

Proudly owned by InkedMaster. He is the one i obey, serve, honor and love.

No one is honored for what they've received. Honor is the reward for what has been given.

(in reply to MistressMelissa)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: selfish - 9/18/2006 9:34:32 PM   
gypsygrl


Posts: 1471
Joined: 10/8/2005
From: new york state
Status: offline 		Thank you for all your comments which gave me lots to think about. 

I think, yeah, part of its conditioning and having positive associations with specific positions that carry over, if in diluted form, into everyday activities.  And, I think part of it is having achieved a level of comfort with or acceptance of myself as a submissive.

Its not bad, but sometimes I feel as if I'm in a trance a good deal of the time. :)

(in reply to eyesopened)
Profile   Post #: 17
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