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Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 2:34:16 AM

inadazey

Posts: 69
Joined: 10/7/2004
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I've had an interest in doing a rape scenario, but was never with anyone I trusted enough to act it out with until my current Master. I imagine it's something we'll do, so I'd be really interested in hearing others' (Dom/me or sub) experience with and feelings about it.

And, I have a lot of questions. :) If you're doing a realistic rape scenario (fighting, etc), how do you make sure neither party gets unintentionally hurt? Does either the dom/me or sub ever get too carried away/caught up in it? If you don't use safewords, would you make an exception for this? How realistic does it feel, and can you do anything to make it more or less realistic? Do you plan any of it out beforehand? Can it be an upsetting experience for either person, and is there anything you can do to prevent that from happening? I'm supposing it's different for everyone who does it, which is one reason I'm really interested in hearing personal experiences.

If it's something you do/have done, do/did you really enjoy it? Could you say why or why not? If you haven't done it, do you want to?

Sorry for the "twenty questions" post :) but I'd really like to know firsthand thoughts and experiences with it. When I think about it, it feels kind of like before playing with a new toy... excitement and nervousness. Anyway, I'd really appreciate any input y'all can give me. Thanks! :) ~daisy~

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Post #: 1

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 3:18:33 AM

SherriA

Posts: 544
Joined: 1/1/2004
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I've never managed to do a "rape" scene successfully. What it boils down to, for me, is that if I want to go there with you there's not going to be any rape about it to me, and if I have no sexual interest in you it's not going to happen anyway. I'm not good enough at suspension of disbelief it seems. Resistance play can be lots of fun, but it still doesn't equate to "rape" in my head.

I do know someone who agreed to do a rape scene with a friend. It was so successful that she broke off all contact with him because she said it was too realistic and she no longer wanted anything to do with him afterwards. He gave her exactly what she asked for, but apparently she didn't really want that as much as she thought she did.

Rape fantasy, imx, roughly translates into wanting really hot, rough sex with a (good looking) stranger and bearing no responsibility for it afterwards. Yeah, I think that's pretty hot too, but it's not "rape".

_____________________________

-- Sherri

Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 2

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 4:44:46 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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As a survivor of rape I guess I may have a different take on this than you do. I do not see how the words "rape" and "play" can possibly come together in the same sentence for in "rape" there is nothing even remotely "playful" about it. Rape has very little to do with sex other than it being the weapon used to disintegrate another human being both emotionally and physically. If you have anything like this in your past I would strongly caution against this type of scenario.

I confided the details of my rape to a Dominant that I once dated. I felt that it is a detail that is necessary to divulge to someone you will be playing with for there have been times in scenes that it can become an issue. This Dominant then gave it some serious thought and decided that the best way to get me past this emotional roadblock was to re-enact my rape in a safe setting, unbeknownst to me. He carried out his plans with the best intentions, making it as realistic as humanly possibly.....humiliation, violence and all. Afterwards He was very surprised that I did not view it as He did. He thought it was "hot". I can not begin to tell you what an emotional toll the event had on me. That was the end of our relationship. I felt that I could never trust Him again.

To be honest with you though, I don't think that it would have made any difference to me at all had He discussed this with me beforehand. "Rape" play is mind play and in my opinion, when one is playing with the mind they had better be prepared for the emotional fallout. One can never be sure exactly what damage could be done.

Now I realize that I come from a more jaded viewpoint on this subject and there may be others who have had completely different experiences with the this. I think though that in order to make an informed decision about what is right for you, you need to consider all aspects of the possible ramifications of this type of "play". There is alot to consider for I am sure that you do not want to come out of this with emotional scars and the need for (very expensive) counseling.

I can not say that if I was not a survivor of rape how I would view this, for unfortunately that is just a fact I can not erase. Somehow though, I think that this type of play would be damaging to me emotionally regardless of that fact. I think that for me it would always be something that would hurt trust.

Maybe that is because I can not get into the mindset of the typical rape fantasy where the good looking stranger sneaks into your bedroom as you sleep and wakens you to hot, passionate, rough sex complete with mind blowing orgasms. For me, there is another kind of video that plays in my head and I can assure you there is nothing sexy about it.

I apologize if this was not exactly what you were looking for but at least for me, I like to see all sides before I make my decisions.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 3

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 4:54:40 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline

Itis a complex topic. i belive it is up to eatch induvidual to deside what they feel aboute this. But to do this on a rape survivor it sounds unresponsibel to me.

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 4

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 6:04:30 AM

sterlingsweet

Posts: 180
Joined: 8/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

As a survivor of rape I guess I may have a different take on this than you do. I do not see how the words "rape" and "play" can possibly come together in the same sentence for in "rape" there is nothing even remotely "playful" about it. Rape has very little to do with sex other than it being the weapon used to disintegrate another human being both emotionally and physically. If you have anything like this in your past I would strongly caution against this type of scenario.

I confided the details of my rape to a Dominant that I once dated. I felt that it is a detail that is necessary to divulge to someone you will be playing with for there have been times in scenes that it can become an issue. This Dominant then gave it some serious thought and decided that the best way to get me past this emotional roadblock was to re-enact my rape in a safe setting, unbeknownst to me. He carried out his plans with the best intentions, making it as realistic as humanly possibly.....humiliation, violence and all. Afterwards He was very surprised that I did not view it as He did. He thought it was "hot". I can not begin to tell you what an emotional toll the event had on me. That was the end of our relationship. I felt that I could never trust Him again.
quote:

First I would like to say to you mistoferin, I find that for the Dom you were dating to take it upon himself in how it was best for you to get over one of the most pshycologically damaging thing a person can go through, just sickens me. Ihope that you have or do find ways of dealing and coping and trusting again.

I quoted mistoferin because I think what she had to say very important and I agree.
Even if you have not had such violence in your past, I would still support you in thinking very carefully first and get a lot of info. from others who have "played" in this way, you never know for you what the after effects will be and it's would be good to get as educated as possible.
Be Well...

_____________________________

Who Let the Dommes Out?? (I'd like to Thank them).
~Wink

Peace Out...Sterlingsweet

I finally got my cuffs,
I hope to use them soon ~wink

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 5

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 6:06:20 AM

liljoy

Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
Status: offline

erin,
i'm pretty sure you know that i feel the same way you do about this subject. i have heard that some surviors enjoy rape play. Asd i said i've heard they do. Can't say i'vve ever met or spoken to any that feel that way.
The theory is that it's a way of allowing the surivor to deal differently with the rape and this time have some control over the situation. i would be very interested in talking to a survivor that has dealt in this way. If nothing else just to try to understand thier reasoning and how thier mind works in that situation.
i admit i am oddly drawn to watch moies that deal with rape. i can't say for sure why, maybe to see how others have reacted and delt with it.
~hugs erin~
lil_joy

(in reply to mistoferin)

Post #: 6

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 6:32:06 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

1.rape
forcing of somebody into sex

2.rape
oilseed plant of mustard family

3.rape
refuse of wine grapes

If I understand You correctly, You are talking about the first. The reality is that play 'rape' does not exist. It may be a 'label' that some use to identify a pre-arranged scene of extreme power exchange play.( See why I have such a difficulty with labels?)

I have been involved with such powerful scenes, but would like to point out that as a former victim of such an assault, I do not view such a power exchange as 'rape play'. The experience of Rape and the experience of consensual 'rape play' are very, very different. The experience of Rape and the experience of unconsensual 'rape play' are the same... because anything unconsensual and forced is wrong.

Play is play. No matter how heavy it may be, or even how brutal in some eyes it may seem.

Unconditionally, unconsensually... Rape is Rape.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 7

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 7:10:24 AM

ARoseAndAnEye

Posts: 67
Joined: 12/8/2004
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Hmmm.... I don't think it can be done.

First of all, rape, by definition is a forced, unconcensual act. I guess I'm of the opinion that to be in "play" with your partner/master/dom/domme... you have already consented to whatever acts may be imposed upon you. Master and I have discussed this many many times; possible scenarios that could work...

In all honesty, what would happen is we would be engaging in rough sex. The dialogue might enter what could be construed as "play rape". But its NOT rape. If I ever believed I was truly being attacked, regardless of the outcome, my attacker would be in for one hell of a fight.

I could/would NEVER fight my Master.

~anna

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 8

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 8:21:29 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline

inadazey...

In response to Your 'private' mail to me about how you do not like my reply to your question is Your opinion. You are free to air such. However You asked for opinions in an open forum and this is what was given by myself. I do think You may not have read my words clearly, however and I personally do not see what was so 'wrong' with my reply, or how they 'cut like a knife' in your opinion. If You care to ellabourate and respond in the forum, I would be happy to discuss. You may not agree with me and find the term 'play rape' appropriate... that is again Your choice.

And it is my freedom to believe that rape and play rape are totally different things. Myself, having experienced both, was an individuals opinon, which is what you asked for.

If You do not wish to hear responses you may not agree with, then do not ask them in an open forum and invite all thoughts.

Peace and love sweet one.

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 9

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 9:32:59 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

Well, I'm going to disent here.

I understand the distinction that is being made between rape and play rape. However, I beileve that the -phrase- play rape means something different than the word rape. In putting the two words together, you create something that is new though evoking the two elements that make it up. One does not mandate that rape play -be- rape any more than one mandates that the elements of a mind fuck actually happen. (Don't get me started on those though :) )

To that end, I enjoy play rape. We do not strive for reality, rather, we strive for an eroticized fantasy of wrested control. For us, it isn't about making it as real as possible, it's about making it as fun as possible. Yup, this totally goes against "rape" however is not in opposition to "play rape."

I have not been rape. I -have- been sexually assaulted, but it isn't the same thing. Still, I know many individuals who do find empowerment in rape play after they have been raped. I have been told that by -approximating- the experience in such a way that it is enjoyable for both parties, they are able to reclaim that act, even in a distant way.

I understand what the posters are saying about one being unable to play at being raped, as an unconsensual act by definition. However, I think the use of the phrase "play rape' changes the definition entirely.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 10

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 9:46:29 AM

darkinshadows

Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
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perverse...

I totally comprehend what You have said. The phrase 'rapeplay' does change the perceived definition totally. Thank You for writing it so clearly!

_____________________________

.dark.

...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 11

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 10:17:05 PM

ravenna

Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

i have been raped, and i have been play-raped. (i don't think that makes me an expert on either one, but not being an expert has never stopped me before.) i was date-raped my freshman year of college, by a hot senior guy that i had a major steamy crush on. If he'd asked sweetly he could have seduced me, if he'd waited till the third date i'd have been all over him, but he wanted it the way he wanted it. He took me back to his apartment after a semi-formal party and segued smoothly from making out on his sofa to pulling my dress up and pulling my panties aside, without even asking. He pried my legs open, pinned my arms down when i started struggling, and somehow slipped a condom on with one hand before impaling me. (A smooth operator! i'm sure i wasn't the first little freshman he'd nailed that way.) And yes, it was technically rape, because i had said NO, loudly, several times, he wasn't deaf, and i was actively resisting, at least for awhile. (He was a LOT bigger than me.) And no, it wasn't technically rape, because, as he said afterwards, while wiping my sweaty, teary face and pouring me a drink (such a gentleman), "You can't rape a wet cunt." I slapped him, but it was true. The whole scene, as scary as it was, was enormously erotic for me, and i was incredibly wet and switched on, and within an hour we were both laughing and having sex again. Any guy would call this a classic case of "she wants it, her lips say no, but her other lips say yes yes yes." And did i learn anything? Yes and no. i slept with the guy for three months (i know, i know, i'm such a slut), till i dumped him for the man who much later became my first owner. But i did learn that i have a dangerous hunger for submission inside me (oh hell, i knew that already), i learned i'm a pushover for pushy guys, and i learned to be careful about who i let push me around, because underneath the Nice Girl i'm basically the Easy Virtue. i know my little misadventure was pretty tame compared to hardcore, violent rape, but that one little moment when i realized, my God, this is way out of my control, really puts one hell of an edge on my emotions when i'm play-raped, which happened a lot with one of my owners, and some of his scenarios were much MUCH scarier. But i never drew a line or made rape a limit or used a safeword, i think because deep down i've always trusted that i would survive intact -- because i did. If my real rape had been as traumatic as many of them are, i might never have recovered that trust, and when you let someone push you off that cliff, trust is all you have.

(in reply to darkinshadows)

Post #: 12

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 10:25:34 PM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenna
And no, it wasn't technically rape, because, as he said afterwards, while wiping my sweaty, teary face and pouring me a drink (such a gentleman), "You can't rape a wet cunt." I slapped him, but it was true.

Erotic or not, aroused or not, if you DO NOT GIVE CONSENT OR REVOKE CONSENT it is rape. It does not -matter- if you are aroused. If you say 'no' without prior agreement that 'no' doesn't mean it, it is -not consensual- and -illegal-.

I'm sorry, but especially for someone who enjoys power play, I can understand getting aroused during even a horrible experience. Just because one is experiencing arousal does not make it consensual.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to ravenna)

Post #: 13

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/12/2005 11:33:53 PM

liljoy

Posts: 577
Joined: 3/25/2004
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inadazey,
if this is a desire of yours i'd say go for it. Don't let those of us that react negativly to it change you. For may of us survivors we simply can't see that play and rape are words that can be combined. Clearly they can for you and that's great. There is one thing that i'd ask of you. When you decide to do this either do it in private or if you decide to do it at a dungeon or play party please issue a warning as to what the scene will be. This way those that know or think this will be an issue for them can go somewhere else. This type of play is a trigger for many as you've seen in the posts. i'm sure your intent is not to cause harm to anyone else. i'm also glad that you posted your question because if you had not it might not even have crossed your mind that seeing this type of play may be damaging to another.
Please don't take the negative posts personally. Please realize that it's the topic that we are reacting to and not you.

quote:

ORIGINAL: inadazey

I've had an interest in doing a rape scenario, but was never with anyone I trusted enough to act it out with until my current Master. I imagine it's something we'll do, so I'd be really interested in hearing others' (Dom/me or sub) experience with and feelings about it.

And, I have a lot of questions. :) If you're doing a realistic rape scenario (fighting, etc), how do you make sure neither party gets unintentionally hurt? Does either the dom/me or sub ever get too carried away/caught up in it? If you don't use safewords, would you make an exception for this? How realistic does it feel, and can you do anything to make it more or less realistic? Do you plan any of it out beforehand? Can it be an upsetting experience for either person, and is there anything you can do to prevent that from happening? I'm supposing it's different for everyone who does it, which is one reason I'm really interested in hearing personal experiences.

If it's something you do/have done, do/did you really enjoy it? Could you say why or why not? If you haven't done it, do you want to?

Sorry for the "twenty questions" post :) but I'd really like to know firsthand thoughts and experiences with it. When I think about it, it feels kind of like before playing with a new toy... excitement and nervousness. Anyway, I'd really appreciate any input y'all can give me. Thanks! :) ~daisy~

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 14

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/13/2005 12:01:39 AM

SwitchNCgal

Posts: 79
Joined: 11/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

I felt that I could never trust Him again.

I don't blame you and if i were in your position i may have even called the police becasue that is called "date rape" and is still illegeal.

(in reply to sterlingsweet)

Post #: 15

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/13/2005 12:46:21 AM

ravenna

Posts: 121
Joined: 12/22/2004
Status: offline

perverseangelic, your point is well taken and legally correct, and i know if i had called the police it would have been hell for the guy who raped me, and probably hell for me too, especially since he used a condom and an hour later he was happily fucking me again with my clear and unequivocal consent, but with all respect to you, my point, stripped of legalities, was this:

In the existential moment of being raped, or being about to be raped, whatever my head and my mouth were thinking or saying, right or wrong, my body had already consented. He was, i think, instinctively reading my body with his body, and he knew i had consented even before i did. This was my experience of it from the inside, and that's why i agreed with him (eventually) when he said you can't rape a wet cunt. (Besides, it's a little late to call the cops now...)

(in reply to SwitchNCgal)

Post #: 16

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/13/2005 5:32:24 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline

Ravenna,
I am very glad for you that you came out of your experience without the emotional scarring that could very well have occurred. I mean that with all sincerity. Yes, you were raped, when a woman says No....regardless of what the man's take on that is....it really does mean NO. Any pushing of the envelope past that point is illegal and considered sexual assault.

After my rape, once I got my life back under control, I had a need to make something positive come of it. I became a sexual assault counselor and did that for a period of 7 years. No, that still does not make me an expert on the subject. I have though, worked very closely with hundreds of women (and men also I might add, as rape is non-discriminatory when it comes to one's gender) who have had this terrible event occur in their life. Some of them were very different than your situation with a high degree of violence, some of them were very much like your situation.

What concerns me is that what I think am hearing in your post(I may be completly off base here and if I am I do apologize) is that you have taken ownership of some of the blame for what occurred. I can tell you that MANY times when someone is raped, even in extremely violent rapes, that person's body has responded with wetness or even to the point of orgasm. This is a physical response of the body and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether it is rape or not. Many women who have experienced this have come out of it with a feeling that their own bodies have betrayed them.....or they have somehow taken on a part of the blame because the physical response to them has meant that they somehow "wanted" it. Not to mention, this can be reinforced by one's attacker ie: "You can't rape a wet cunt", or "You loved it and you know it, hell you even came". I think though that these men would be surprised to find out that in court.....their argument and justification would mean very little once the doctor took the stand.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to ravenna)

Post #: 17

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/13/2005 9:27:34 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravenna
In the existential moment of being raped, or being about to be raped, whatever my head and my mouth were thinking or saying, right or wrong, my body had already consented. He was, i think, instinctively reading my body with his body, and he knew i had consented even before i did. This was my experience of it from the inside, and that's why i agreed with him (eventually) when he said you can't rape a wet cunt. (Besides, it's a little late to call the cops now...)

I understand what you're saying, however I do not believe that bodily consent -ever- outweights actual, communicated consent.

If the relationship had been an established one, especially one with elements of power exchange, I could agree. In that case, consent has been given before hand and there are ways spesifically designed to revoke it.

Still, I don't believe that a body can give consent without the mind attached. If that were true, I would have to believe that women who wear short skirts are -really- saying they want sex, because their bodies clearly want to be displayed.

I -do- understand what you're saying, and that this was your personal experience. I don't disagree that you experienced it this way. However, I disagree with the premis on which you are basing your comments as a whole. (Not in the spesfic as it applies to you, because only you can know your situation)

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to ravenna)

Post #: 18

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/13/2005 9:51:17 AM

ARoseAndAnEye

Posts: 67
Joined: 12/8/2004
Status: offline

quote:

This was my experience of it from the inside, and that's why i agreed with him (eventually) when he said you can't rape a wet cunt. (Besides, it's a little late to call the cops now...)

whoaa.....

a physical response is what it is. a physical response. It has nothing to do with "consent". That statement sends a message to all REAL rapists and all REAL rape victims (as opposed to "play rape" scenes) that if their body so much as begins to have a physical response, they have consented. What about the noted fact of fallen soldiers who, in their death throws, have gained an erection or even ejaculated?

I've never been raped. But I have experienced physical reactions to non-pleasurable events that have stunned even me.

~anna

(in reply to perverseangelic)

Post #: 19

RE: Play Rape? Thoughts, experiences... - 1/13/2005 10:34:14 AM

roughleather

Posts: 232
Joined: 11/11/2004
Status: offline

Play rape works best with tough, athletic women who aren't afraid to play rough. Ones who enjoy wrestling and contact sports. Women who say "Think you can make me?" Not ones who say "I've been reading romance novels and have always fantasized about this".

I've known several women who were into it and could handle it. Tough, competitive types, unafraid of a fight. Most women can't handle it. Best way to find out is to have a good rough wrestling match. If that turns her on and doesn't scare her off, you may have a winner.

(in reply to inadazey)

Post #: 20

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