Amaros
Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: illuminati1
Ok, now here's something that has recently crossed my mind due to a phone conversation i had with a VERY close friend of mine. W/we were talking about bondage and about subs and Doms. Well He is a Dom by nature He will NEVER submit. Ever. What i would like to discuss here is being broken. When a sub sumbits to a Dom in a 24/7 situation they give the Dom their mind,body and soul. They give themselves fully to the Dom they place their life in the hands of the Dom expecting hte Dom to make the right decision and always do what is in the best intrest of the sub both physically and mentally. Now here is the question i propose....
Can a sub be broken? Now let me explain this a bit. I mean break their spirit, break the subs will, break their desire to fight back in the slightest of ways so that the sub gives in no matter what. Can a sub be broken mentally? Can their will be broken? Can a sub's soul be broken? Can thei spirit be broken?
I pose the question to E/everyone: sub, slaves, Dom's Domme's, Mistress', Master's and people jsut passing through. i pose this question to EVERYONE.
I think yes, you can do these things, it's been done before - in fact it's done all the time - I think the question is, from a Dom standpoint, how desireable is it really, and from a sub standpoint, how dmaging is it, and does it last?
In the first instance, I suspect that most times, it's just a cool thing to say, makes you sound really intense, etc., a no-nonsense kinda guy - part of setting a proper psychological tone, etc. - i.e., make the sub feel like they have no choice in the matter - in an explicitly consensual context, yes, but sort of pretending it isn't, getting close to that real ahor ambiance. At worst, it's simply delusional, part of an "all powerful" fantasy self which, if it happens to be a Narcsissistic construct, probobly has a corresponding construct who's a hopeless, and helpless fuckup.
On the other hand, there are, no doubt, those who are truely serious about it, and it's no joke - and this can range from explicitly consensual, to implicitly or semi-consensual, to outright coerced, all the way into the genuinely criminal, with the stone cold ghouls at the very bottom.
I'm of the first stripe myself, so I can't speak for the second, but it is something you dance around, i.e., how real is it? I think most subs seem to desire a modicum of control over themselves, which is only natural, and some fear this concept of "total submission" which seems to imply a complete abrogation of will, if not identity, or "Soul", whatever that might mean to you.
In praxis (practice, as opposed to theory) this isn't all that easy to do, and normally it's a temporary condition (subspace), after which your regular personality or "agent" re-emerges - "total submission", 24/7 is, I think, is usually only induced in people who have been trained unrelentingly from birth, and who know no other identity - religious training is a pretty good example of this, there are people who simply can't function outside the context of their religious training, because they've never gone through, or been allowed to go through any real individuation phase, which normally occurs in your teens.
By contrast, it's often children raised under strict religious condition that really go nuts during the individuation phase, acting out in proportion to the repression they've been subjected to.
Similarly, any attempt to achive "total submission" in somebody could well backfire - John Wayne Bobbitt springs to mind, a man who apparently thought things were under control - and if you have to tie somebody up to get a sound sleep, that isn't really submission, total or otherwise, it's force.
In short, one can be "broken" to certain routines, perhaps, operant conditioning, but once you've individuated, that really isn't going to go away, it's burned into the very patterns or your cereberal cortex - you might struggle for a while, suffer from an identity crisis possibly, but your personality is going to re-emerge eventually after even the most rigorous levels of identity reduction - Prisoners of war, etc., generally recover, and even victims of frontal lobotomies or severe brain damage have been know to partially recover.
So, "Broke", ain't neccessarily "unfixable" - however, depending on your personality, extremes of ego surrender may not be for you, and I think for most people, isn't for them except on a periodic or situational/episodic basis.
As gnostic, I don't believe anyone can break or own your soul - it's hermetic, your soul is your soul: your responsibility - you can fan or bank the flame, but it really has nothing to do directly with what you do with your body, except insofar as this effects your mind.
Secondly, ego destruction is part of the classic Shamanic experience - there are entire religions built around this concept, so you may want to consider that aspect of it as well, one can gain great power therby, and it can be an avenue for spiritual growth.
Finally, you have those who willingly submit to their uttermost, and it's hard to call them broke, if there's nothing to break, except as a figure of speech - you'd have to say this is their personality, or the aspect of it they are most comfortable with.
Now don't start flaming that, or we'll have to drag the "neediness" thread in, because this sort of willingness to serve, is, essentially, an act of will, not neccessarily weakness.
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RE: Broken? - 
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