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Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 3:08:24 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
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Topping from below, three words i have begun to hate. For me, before i begun to read alot aboute BDSM and D/s online. Topping from below was when the sub came whit near scrips of how the play was to be or not be done, or a playful sub that purposfully brakes to rules to make her Dom punish her. But it seams many here have another meaning, and that i can not wrap my head around.

Everytime i see a sub that says oh you know, i like whippings and pain play and i would love to find a Mistress that like the same. he or she is met whit. You are topping from below, you should only ask to serve.

Why is it wrong for a sub to have desirers, why is it wrong for that person to go find a Dom that share their desirers. For some pepole taking care of their Master`s house, and making sure he has everything he need and time to do what he wants is enoh, it fills them whit contentment. For others like me, that is not enoh. i need atention from my Dom and i love play sessions, and we often discuss what i do or do not like. But some here would say that is topping from below.

i might come to my Dom and say Master, i would realy want a spaking right now. He can then say yes or no, but i can ask, and often he do what i want to, to make me happy. For to him, me being happy is top priority as it is the same for me aboute his happyness.

i am not judging anyones relationship, but lately i have come to hate the three words Topping from below, becouse what it seams most pepole on this site i have spoke whit belives it means is a sub whit needs that would like those needs to be adressed in the relationship as well. Not all of us say yes Master i love to serve and i need nothing from you exept being alowed to try to pleese you. It is nothing wrong whit this, but not all of us is like that. Some like me are instead more like this. Yes Master i love to serve and make you happy, but i need to be happy as well, now you deside but i like such and such. And to my mind, that is not Topping from below.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 4:50:48 AM

mistoferin

Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
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Nella,
There are only two people involved in your relationship, you and your Master. Those are the only two people that need to be satisfied. Let the other's opinions just roll off your back.

I do understand exactly where you are coming from. I too, love those whoopins! Even though I don't go and ask for them, I am told by some that I am not really submissive because I enjoy it, therefore I don't do it just because my Sir wants to. I am told this is self serving. Now mind you, this bit of wisdom generally comes from someone that is fairly new. I have been in this lifestyle(real life) since I was 15 and am now 42.

The fact is that we as submissives do have needs and if any one of us were in a relationship where none of our needs were ever being met, we would not stay in it long. To stay in a relationship where your Dom cares nothing of your needs does not make one submissive, it makes one a doormat.

There are some things that Sir does to me because He knows that I love them and the end result (flying) is what pleases Him. There are other things that He does strictly for His pleasure or just because He wants to. If you are leaving it in His hands what to do and what not to do, then I do not see this as topping from the bottom. I can drop a hint that I am really in the mood for play......whether we play or what kind of play is then up to Him.

He is a very wise Man though and also realizes that if i was dreadfully unhappy because none of my needs were ever being met, it would be a detriment to our relationship. A sub should feel valued and feel that her Sir always has her best interests in mind, in my opinion.

Now if you had said that you go to your Master and say "I want a spanking and if I don't get one I am not making dinner tonight"......now that would have been a very different story. I don't see it as topping from the bottom however, if the decision to grant your request is entirely His to do as He chooses.

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~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 7:21:29 AM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
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For me, I don't mind that the sub/slave comes with things he or she likes to do and shares them. What bothers me is when they come ONLY with desires and demands. Last time I checked, it was about them serving me, not about me fulfilling all their desires and wants. So, come with a list of what you like, but couple that with what you have to offer. It takes both lists to explore compatibility.

Fire

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 9:07:31 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
Joined: 12/30/2004
From: Norway
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The problem is, is BDSM to be a trade of i do this for you, you do this for me. I ask for what i want, and i asume that my Dom will do what he wants and tell me what he desirers of me.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 9:59:30 AM

Suleiman

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Joined: 9/9/2004
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Well, this is one of those areas where nearly everyone has an opinion, and many have very strong opinions that they shout to the rafters. I'm sure proudsub will be along, as ever, dutifully calling up links to past threads which have to do with topping from the bottom. I seem to recall some tangental input on the same topic in the various threads discussing "fakes" of various sorts (as in those ever so popular topics which discuss how fake various people are for doing, or not doing, things a certian way). Alas, lacking Proud's exemplary mastery of the search function (and being a bit sleep deprived) I am unable to corroborate my hazy recollection. Maybe I'll have the wherewithal to post links later.

For my two bits, I tend to agree with Nella on this point. I have encountered far to many MasterLordDomlyDom types who proclaim a submissive to be uppity simply because the submissive has a mind of his or her own. I have seen people declaimed as fake simply for having a particular form of submission that they want to live out, and do not care for having someone else define what their submission should be.

I've also seen a lot of newcomers to the scene who were badly misinformed because of early interaction with these sorts, and who were either scared away from the scene altogether, or else wound up in very bad situations because of it.

In contrast, I have also known of some souls who, being confronted with this image of absolute submission, have risen to the challenge and truly become that sort of subservient. It is not, however, a common story, and it is one which I have found fictionalized far more often than I have seen testimonials to the same effect.

I have always held the belief that what I do is between myself and whomever it is that I am playing with. Whether servant or lord, so long as they and I are satisfied (and providing that no one can make a federal case out of the matter, of course), then the matter is between they and I. No one else is in the relationship, and so no one else is truly qualified to judge.

This does not stop us from pronouncing judgement, however. Look at my example. I average several hundred judgements per month on this site alone. I try not to let that cramp anyone else's style, however.

~S

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Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 1:04:35 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

There are only two people involved in your relationship, you and your Master. Those are the only two people that need to be satisfied. Let the other's opinions just roll off your back.

That is the best advice anyone can ever give you. I'd take it and run.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 1:18:29 PM

nella

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From: Norway
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Werry true Gloria.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 1:33:40 PM

proudsub

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From: Washington
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quote:

I'm sure proudsub will be along, as ever, dutifully calling up links to past threads which have to do with topping from the bottom.

First my personal opinion. If a sub's desires and needs aren't being met then i don't think a relationship can last. I don't consider that "topping from the bottom" unless the sub is trying to control the scene.

Here are a few prior threads:

not a doormat--topping from the bottom

bratty? baiting? brazen? ...topping from the bottom

question re ideas, requests from below

a submissive's control

communication nd negotiation....

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/13/2005 1:50:17 PM

Quivver

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Joined: 11/27/2004
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Personally, I just love Nilla's innocent honesty.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/14/2005 5:04:16 AM

OrientalMistress

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Joined: 11/7/2004
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Just a quick word...as I too admire your honesty... I often tell My subs that there is a right way and a wrong way to approach your Dominant with your own desires. The Dominant is or at least should be quite aware of the desires held by the submissive anyway...

Let us use the spanking example you proposed... If one of My subs came to Me and said, "Ma'am, I need {or want} a spanking right now," they would be punished {which most certainly would NOT include spanking}. However, if My sub came to Me and said,

"Ma'am, may I ask you something," a question that always receives a positive response from Me unless I am in the midst of doing something {and My subs know better than to interrupt Me}, after I said "yes," ...then she would say something like,

"Is it wrong to desire a spanking even when you have done nothing to deserve it?"

That question, you see, indicates to Me quickly that she is in the mood to be spanked...and I would most certainly fulfill her wish.

Anoither example, as I do not allow My subs anal penetration by penis-size dildos or penises, I have taught them that if asked, ordered or told to prepare for rear entry...or even thrust down into a position that would allow such...that they are to rise up onto their knees, head bowed, eyes lowered...and reply, "Sir or Ma'am, while I am not allowed to fulfill that desire, I do have something very special for you in its' stead."

The "something special" might be a very unique form of oral pleasuring, a tongue massage, or one of the other skills that I have taught them from My oriental playbook...

In other words, ask ... but ask nicely! Similes...

Luv
Oriental Mistress

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/14/2005 5:37:54 AM

MrThorns

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Nella,

I agree with you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with asking for something. I also agree with those that have said that such requests should be delivered with some form of tact.

The only time I really find myself grumbling about this topic is when I hear about a slave, who claims to "live to serve", states that they have no limits, and claim that they are with their dominant with no thought for their own needs or desires. Although this particular dynamic may be a goal for many slaves, I believe that in most cases, this just isn't so. We all have some degree of selfishness within us. I think we need to be selfish to some extent, if for no oher reason than for our own survival.

My slave, for instance, is the most wonderful woman I have ever met. She serves me very well, attends to my every need with little thought to her own desires, is a glorious pain slut....but she is still selfish. I mean, would she stay with me if she didn't feel safe? If she didn't feel loved or secure, would she still serve me with the same devotion? I don't think so.

I think a slave has a responsibility to bring her particular needs to the attention of her dominant. This does not constitute "Topping from the bottom" in my book. It becomes Topping from the bottom when the slave tries to manipulate the dominant into fulfilling her desires and ultamately undermining the dynamic of the relationship.

Hope that made sense....

~Thorns

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"My inner child is a mean little fucker"

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/14/2005 6:21:15 AM

cynnacent1

Posts: 340
Joined: 6/25/2004
From: Massachusetts
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As INSIDEYOURMIND's slave, i am free to express to Him my desires and/or opinions. When a command is issued, it is obeyed, regardless. If i have a conflict with what has been asked of me, i'm to pose any questions after carrying out what is asked of me (exception is made in the event of needing to ask questions if exactly HOW i am to carry out the command is not understood by me, and i require further instructions). Asking WHY is ok too, after FIRST obeying by submitting to what has been asked of me. Asking WHY before hand could be interpreted as an attempt to manipulate, or change the course of action, and/or change His mind and would therefore be regarded as indicative of an attempt being made on my part to 'top from the bottom'.

In this relationship, the trust i give to my Master is infinite, as He has proven to me by countless examples of responsibility with that trust, that He is worthy of this level of trust. This level of trust makes submitting & obeying a whole lot easier. This is another example of why i have no reason to wish to top, and therefore do not.

Tantrums, and/or intentional acts of disobedience, disrespect or noncompliance are not tolerated by my Master at all. Topping fits into those categories. These types of behavior are quite rarely, if ever, expressed by me. There has only ever been ONE example of outright disobedience expressed by me since entering this relationship with INSIDEYOURMIND, which resulted in the one and only occasion that called for my being physically punished. The act of disobedience was uncalled for, without reason, & 100% inexcusable, and therefore, of course the punishment was well 'earned'. The punishment was NOT something i find enjoyable to say the least. The act which led to my being deserving of punishment has not and will not ever be repeated. i NEVER 'top from the bottom'. i'm a quick learner.

quote:

Why is it wrong for a sub to have desires, why is it wrong for that person to go find a Dom that share their desires. For some pepole taking care of their Master`s house, and making sure he has everything he need and time to do what he wants is enoh, it fills them whit contentment. For others like me, that is not enoh. i need atention from my Dom and i love play sessions, and we often discuss what i do or do not like. But some here would say that is topping from below.

i see nothing wrong with that at all. Every relationship is different. As long as whatever it is which defines you as a submissive is acceptable to your Dom you feel free in should inviting anyone who thinks that they have any right to judge the quality of your submission to Him to kiss your submissive ass and butt ( no pun intended

) the hell out.

The levels of quality which might indicate your being a worthy or unworthy submissive should be defined by your MASTER. Anyone else offering a critique should be told to mind their own business and to keep their noses out of his and your's.

INSIDEYOURMIND appreciates my communicating to Him what it is i enjoy, desire, and need to remain happy as His slave. Just as i prefer to serve with a level of quality that ensures He is pleased, He would much rather prefer have His slave kneeling in service to Him contentedly at His feet rather than observe one who is miserable or unsatisfied in her submission. In many instances, my enjoyment in this relationship is viewed as being detrimental to His pleasure. As much as i take tremendous pleasure in being capable of pleasing Him, He takes as much joy in witnessing my pleasure as He does in observing my reaction to certain displeasures ( or as He would prefer word it: "excruciating pleasure"

). Of course, this goes to say, there are times when displeasures and pleasures received on my part can be viewed as one & the same.

¸,ø¤º°cynnacent°º¤ø,¸ (proudly owned by, and devoted to INSIDEYOURMIND)

< Message edited by cynnacent1 -- 1/14/2005 6:52:43 AM >

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/14/2005 6:56:51 AM

nella

Posts: 1243
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Thanks for the compliments i have gotten and all the insightful replys. It is werry kind of you all to take time out of your buisy lives to answer my questions.

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RE: Topping from below. - 1/14/2005 1:28:05 PM

Suleiman

Posts: 1127
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::Looks around in complete surprise::

Holy $#!^, there are people here with actual LIVES?!?

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Think of my verbosity as a sort of litmus test for our relationship. I write in a manner identical to how I speak and how I think. If you can not cope with what I have written here, it is probably for the best if we go our separate ways.

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