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How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 9:57:41 AM

hoss78412

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline

Not knowing how to find or approach someone in person with my desires, I decided to give the on-line community a try. After answering the fill-in-the-blank profile questions, I composed what I think is a thorough, well-written, and respectful description of what I'd like to experience and learn about myself.

I then reviewed several profiles on here, especially those of dominant women in my area. A common opinion shared by these women seems to be this: "Submissive males should not talk about what they want in their profiles."

I don't understand this. While I did mention (multiple times) my desire and willingness to make a Mistress happy, there are needs/urges that I want to fulfill, as well as limitations that I have. Obviously, submissives have needs too, or we wouldn't be submissive. (In fact, it seems to me that submissives have the real power. If we're not willing to submit, where does that leave the Dominants?)

I'm at a point in my life where I've learned what hasn't worked for me, and know what I want to experience now. How do I learn about myself, and how does a potential Mistress know if She wants to give me any attention, unless I express my wants?

Is my profile appropriate? Please help me with this..........

Post #: 1

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 10:02:16 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Hi hoss

Welcome to CM - I noticed you were "newest member" you see, I am paying attention!

I dont have time now to look at your profile sorry (little UMs need feeding!) but I will say this; yes its important to advise your likes/dislikes/limits, but the point is not to make it come across as me, me, me.

Anyway, I am sure you will have loads of responses before I get back here which will be far wiser than mine (not that that happens too often mind you!).

E

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 2

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 11:15:12 AM

mstrjx

Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

In general, D/s is about a negotiation. Likes, dislikes, fantasies, limits, whatnot. But ultimately, the submissive partner agrees to 'submit' to the actions decided upon by the dominant.

Whether you feel your needs are being met or not will decide whether you take your submission and find someone who is more your style. Possibly you would understand that through the negotiation process, but possibly not.

Ultimately, you choose who you wish to serve, the dominant chooses how to handle you.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 3

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 11:19:35 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
Status: offline

Hi Hoss,

I understand your confusion. Seek a Domme like you would a friend.

In the chatting phase, she will ask you what things you enjoy. She will keep this In the back of her mind.

Should she feel you and she will click and you agree.. those "preferences" will magically become her "rewards" to you.

Your first intention should be to please the Domme, in turn she should please you back...

This is how I am. I can't speak for the others.

< Message edited by LotusSong -- 9/20/2006 11:20:12 AM >

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 4

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 11:34:35 AM

MasterFireMaam

Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline

Ok, I went and looked at your profile. I read the first two paragraphs before rolling my eyes (no offense, hon, just being honest). Why? Because it's a list of all the things you want me to do to you. I find "Do me" submissive unappealing and most other Dominants do as well.

However, I understand your point about you having needs and wants and fantasies. There is a time and place for expressing them. Perhaps at the END of your profile AFTER you've stated what you have to GIVE in the relationship. I suggest re-writting your profile so that you focus first on what you can give and do in service, then explain what you are hoping to receive in return.

Of course, if you don't WANT to offer service and simply want a play partner (as it seems from your profile), state that up front. It's totally acceptable to be looking for that, although most of us are trying to find (a) relationship(s). But, even the Dominant play partner wants to know that they are put first, so I still suggest a re-write that shows you think of your partner first.

It's not about keeping your mouth shut or ignoring the things you want; it's about learning to express these things in a way that offers service to another. The hierarchy is the Dominant first, the sub/slave second (notice I don't think that the sub/slave gets ignored all together). The whole point is to THINK ABOUT HER FIRST and present yourself with that attitude.

Master Fire

_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 5

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 11:37:56 AM

Phoenixandnika

Posts: 748
Joined: 4/22/2005
From: Aberdeen Maryland
Status: offline

I believe the purpose of profiles is to introduce yourself and to express what you are looking for within the bdsm community and more specifically Collar Me.

I am of the thought that every one has specific things that they are looking for, need, or want from the bdsm community and more specifically Collar Me.

I read your profile and it was well written.
In my opinion it also painted a clear picture of what YOU are looking for. I will admit that both of things impress me.

I wish you luck.

Edited to add: As you can see you will get varying veiws on profiles.*laughs*

< Message edited by Phoenixandnika -- 9/20/2006 11:39:13 AM >

_____________________________

"Life is neither a bed of roses nor a carpet of thorns, it's just what you make of it."

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 6

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 11:58:37 AM

ToGiveDivine

Posts: 650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hoss78412

Not knowing how to find or approach someone in person with my desires,

...

I then reviewed several profiles on here, especially those of dominant women in my area. A common opinion shared by these women seems to be this: "Submissive males should not talk about what they want in their profiles."

I can empathize with you hoss - it is REALLY confusing for the new person. Someone put it to me this simplistic way, "I don't mind being treated like sh*t, if they realize that I am a person, not sh*t" (Like I said, simplistic, but to the point)

It appears you want to stay away from the extremes and find a vanilla / lifestyle mix - it's all about respect, honesty, and trust - for both Domme and sub.

The Domme you meet should look, act, and think normally in vanilla situations unless you've agreed for that not to be the case. You should do the same for them. It just seems like it should be very much like trying to make a new friend.

Well, I'm new and that's what I'm hoping for - there do seem to be quite a few decent people on this forum that just happen to be Dommes. It is very informative and at times very entertaining.

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 7

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 12:22:35 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

I am agreeing with Fire here.
There is much more involved in a D/s relationship than the play. Your profile comes across as a newvbie anxious to explore what arouses you, and you are willing to explore this and please a Lady. This is the most common mistake newbies make. There is an assumption that any lady who is on an alternative site such as this, is simply seeking a way to fulfil her kink. Trust Me when I say that you are not killing two birds with one stone. It takes much more than an offer to be stripped naked to interest most Domias.
What you are missing here is that it is not only the play that pleases the Lady. It is the demeanor and the other areas of service. You are approaching this with the mindset that you are available with little notice at all hours for a play scene, and now you are confused as to why you don't have the Dominas knocking at your door (or your email box) because you are so willing. Most of us are not seeking role play for an hour or two. We can get get that way too easily. We are seeking someone who is the person...not the temporary role.
I also agree with nika. The profile is well written and does impart exactly what you seek. If you are willing to be patient, you may find it. I would also suggest that you get out into your local community and start interacting with others to learn more and become friendly. Look for local events, demos, munches and dungeon parties. In this way, you may also meet someone who is in tune with the same "only play for exploration when convenient", or one who genuinely likes you and is willing to take you under their wing and help you out with your explorations.
Be careful about who you are contacting. If you read a profile of a Lady who is attractive to you, and you write a nice letter with the idea in your head that this is all about the willingness to play, rather than the willingness to develop a full relationship with full service and submission, while she is seeking a relationship that includes washing her car, and cleaning her bathroom, you are doomed to the failure of miscommunication.
At this point you are a "do me" bottom boy. There is nothing wrong with that. But you have to understand that this is only the barest surface of what most Ladies are seeking. If that is all you have to offer at this point, this does not make you the most appealing boy on the neighborhood. We can get that with a snap of the fingers and then dismiss the boy when we are through.
I hope this makes some sense and I do wish you the best in your endeavors.
Welcome to the boards.

< Message edited by GoddessDustyGold -- 9/20/2006 12:27:51 PM >

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 8

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 12:34:23 PM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

HUH? Who said guys shouldn't indicate what they're looking for? Perhaps they shouldn't put a grocery list of do-me activities......but to say that we don't want to know what your MO here on the site is....is totally ludicrous.

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 9

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 12:39:27 PM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

Yep. (I broke down and had to look at the OP's profile after MFM's post!) Oh gods, that's a Burger King "have it your way" profile if I've ever read one. I had to stop after the grocery list bullet points came out.....

-- Tone down the game of taking a naked barbie and dressing her up to make her into your perfect dom/holder of the whip. A dominant woman is capable of feeling you out and learning what buttons she can push to get you to respond. Most don't need a Men's Instruction Manual.

-- Take the time to know what YOU want inside emotionally, physically and spiritually. I suspect that you've yet to realize that it's more than just kinky play.

-- You may offer the interested party who contacts you a list of things you have experienced, things you believe to be limits, and some of the things you'd like to try. Most intelligent dominas will accept those sorts of things or may even solicit that from you.

(Edited, had to go back and look at what he wrote again!)

< Message edited by MisPandora -- 9/20/2006 12:45:48 PM >

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)

Post #: 10

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 12:42:05 PM

MistressTaboo

Posts: 147
Joined: 6/10/2005
Status: offline

I went and read your profile…I think if you switch some of it around it won’t be quite so bad… I’d move the “please be aware” to the top…and I’d hold off on the whole list of things you want to do till you know someone better… But as is…I’d have to agree with MasterFireMaam, you come across as a ME submissive. Mistress Taboo

_____________________________

"I'm a bitch, I'm a lover, I'm a child, I'm a mother, I'm a sinner, I'm a saint, I do not feel ashamed" Meredith Brooks

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)

Post #: 11

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 12:44:22 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

(quick reply)

I didn't mind your profile at all. In fact, it came across as honest and forthright which is nice. You know what it is you are looking for and that is great. Now, I would not personally be interested in the type of relationship you are looking for because, as others have said, the play partner aspects don't scratch the surface of what I am looking for in a partner. BUT, there is nothing wrong with what you are looking for especially being so new and basically wanting to experiement to find your way.

There are people who will be looking for the same, however, do not get discourged if some Dommes, especially those who have a bit more experience, may not want what it is you do. I would hazard a guess that many Dommes who read your profile after you contact them may not reply because they may not be a good match to your preferences. Just hang in there and find what you seek. Also, make sure as you are learning and experimenting that you revise your profile as needed to addapt to any changes in preferences or relationship ideals.

I might also suggest that if you are looking for play without the relationship aspects that you may want to consider some sessions with a pro if you were so inclined. You could get some of the play experimentation accomplished. I would also suggest you take some time and learn about the lifestyle and all it has to offer to see if there may be room for more. Good luck.

< Message edited by MsKatHouston -- 9/20/2006 12:45:28 PM >

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 12

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 1:04:07 PM

hoss78412

Posts: 6
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline

My response to the criticism I received (and I promise, I do take it as constructive criticism) is that at this point I don’t know what I have to offer.

It is true that I am a newbie looking to try new things – I clearly state that.

I am not looking for a lifestyle change or relationship – I clearly state that.

I am currently looking for only “play sessions”, with no spill-over into my personal or professional life – I clearly state that.

I do not know what I have to offer, and I wish to learn – I clearly state that.

I do have a “shopping-list” of urges I wish to experience. Should I not admit that?

I never said I was confused as to why I don’t have Dominas knocking at my door. With all due respect GoddessDustyGold, I don’t know where you got that from, and I still don’t understand why you think my willingness is a bad thing.

I am not looking for sex, sex is easy to get. I want to learn!!!! I realize I could be less explicit about what interests me, but I thought (and still do think) openness is a good thing, and will ultimately prevent me and/or a potential Mistress from wasting our time.

So my thoughts after some of the responses are: How can I describe what I have to offer a Mistress, when I don’t yet know what I want myself. All I know is that I have a desire to explore these urges. How should I go about that?

I was told I should confer with others in my community. I am not aware of anyone into this lifestyle I can confer with. I live in a conservative town, where I have an executive job in the public sector and deal with local government officials, and can not be as open about this as I would like. That is why I posted here.

Despite the advice I’ve been given, I still don’t see how I could better communicate what I want. Sighhhh………. I guess this is what I get for trying to “get into the scene” and learn these things about myself this late in my life.

-------------

Edit:

MistressTaboo, You responded while I was typing. I appreciate your advice, and will do as You suggested.

Thanks to all who replied, and who will still reply. All comments, positive and negative, are greatly appreciated.

< Message edited by hoss78412 -- 9/20/2006 1:14:10 PM >

(in reply to MisPandora)

Post #: 13

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 1:14:56 PM

MsKatHouston

Posts: 1909
Joined: 6/7/2006
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

I would state some of your relationship preferences up front and leave out the fantasies you may have. It gets to be a bit much. Those are things you may discuss within a conversation once you start talking to a potential play partner. I think the biggest part of your profile that is off putting is the shopping list of things you'd like to try. Instead, a statement that you are new, don't know a lot and are simply wanting to explore various aspects of play are more what you are looking for at this point instead of listing all your fantasies.

_____________________________

-Kat

~If you can't be a good example, you'll just have to serve as a horrible warning~

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 14

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 1:18:00 PM

ToGiveDivine

Posts: 650
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hoss78412

My response to the criticism I received (and I promise, I do take it as constructive criticism) is that at this point I don’t know what I have to offer.

I clearly state that.

I clearly state that.

I clearly state that.

I clearly state that.

Should I not admit that?

With all due respect GoddessDustyGold,

Despite the advice I’ve been given, I still don’t see how I could better communicate what I want. Sighhhh………. I guess this is what I get for trying to “get into the scene” and learn these things about myself this late in my life.

Is it me, or does it appear that you do NOT take criticism constructively? (Based on the "punctuation" you ended your sentences with)

Get advice online, make friends online, go to munches for the real thing. (You may find R/T from online, but don't hold your breath, it's a waste of time unless there is a domme there to enjoy watching you turn blue ;-)

Bottom line, if it's meant to happen, it will. The criticism you got was constructive and it came from knowledgeable people; it's 100% right from their perspective, maybe not from yours. Consider what was said and make up your own mind - from what I've seen in these forums, subs with minds are highly sought after.

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 15

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 1:27:13 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

I will add my 2 cents, and take it as you will.
Too much info. You are putting everything out right off, and not leaving a thing to the imagination. If I already know everything about what you want and dont want, and I dont see where there is much room for variation from your desires... if what I like isnt on your list I am going to look elsewhere.
Personally, I prefer short and sweet attention getters for profiles, and fil in the important blanks when you start talking to someone. Instead of listing what youd like, or can envision someone doing to you, ust mention that there are specific activities you are interested in trying. Listing your limits is always a good thing. And I would also agree, move the bit about not loking for a relationship/lifestyle unti you get to kow yourself better to the top. Its nice to se someone mentioning that, and not just jumping in with both feet becasue their ambition and curiousity gets the better of them.
It isnt a BAD profile, overal, but it stuck me as more of a 2nd or 3rd email rather than a first look at who you are.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 16

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 1:29:32 PM

MistressSavage

Posts: 32
Joined: 7/26/2006
Status: offline

I think visitung a pro would be a very good thing for you. There is the discretion you need and also the chance to learn what you like and also what you have to offer a Domme. That is just my 2 cents.

Mistress Tricia

(in reply to MsKatHouston)

Post #: 17

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 1:37:23 PM

vield

Posts: 354
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

There is NO Right answer to this question, because no matter how you express yourself it will appeal to some people and repell others.

My own solution both as a dominant and as a submissive has been to be honest, open minded and to hold no Great Expectations about any communication that developes.

It takes time to get to know people. I suggest becoming involved in some of the BD/SM discussion or social groups which now exist in many parts of the country. That way you make connections, have interactions with others who may have similar thoughts, and learn more about the scene in your area.

If you are willing to meet dominant females fot different kinds of play, best to delete most of your list of likes and dislikes and concentrate on the dominant's interests.

Listing your limits is reasonable, but you will find that often that is better in a second or 3rd message. Listing your wants will usually work better if done when you and the Domme are exchanging thoughts about theses things. Of course you need to negotiate the major things before meeting, but if you jump in pushing your Menu, you may not reach the meeting point.

One place all of your lists of wants and needs and desires is totally appropriate is when you are negotiating a paid session with a professional person. However there too you may not get to the point of discovering the Domme likes some things you like if that is your total up front communication. I feel even in this case you are best starting by explaining you are new and you have many thoughts and desires, and wish to find someone to share them with.

vield

(in reply to ToGiveDivine)

Post #: 18

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 2:04:43 PM

MisPandora

Posts: 2911
Joined: 4/7/2004
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline

Sorry to sputter out the obvious.....but how about dropping the grocery list of "do me" items and really say that you want to develop a regular play arrangement with someone you can learn from, clearly stating what you've experienced and where you feel your limits may be? (Since you didn't wish to hear what any of us had to say the first time......)

_____________________________

Pandora
Ms World Leather 2004
Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004

"Simply put, if you want a real femdom to love you, give her reasons to love you." Gloria Brame

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 19

RE: How should a potential submissive express himself? - 9/20/2006 2:27:59 PM

GoddessDustyGold

Posts: 2822
Joined: 4/11/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

Where I get it from is when you stated in your OP that you made out a thoughtful profile and then went looking and realized that many Ladies are stating they don't particularly want to see what you had already written.

quote:

I never said I was confused as to why I don’t have Dominas knocking at my door. With all due respect GoddessDustyGold, I don’t know where you got that from, and I still don’t understand why you think my willingness is a bad thing.

Just chalk it up to My personal writing style. No biggie, honestly!

Frankly, and I thought this was made clear, I think your profile is quite well written and states exactly what you are seeking. I am simply cautioning you that you should be also be looking outside of the online venue as this will increase the chances of finding what you seek.
Just a note that what you offer is what we get offered every single day. There is no lack of boys who want to serve in play mode. You will find something eventually, if you stick with it, don't make assumptions and really look offline as well as on.
I never said that there was anything wrong with what you want. I simply said that you would need to be patient. And you should, as others have said, be realistic about it, both in your reactions to a potential lack of email or responses, as well as how you project your needs. You list your visions of potential scenes as if this is what is going to make the Ladies hot and ready to write to you. It isn't.
Just be frank and honest. And, as a newbie, I don't want you to get all disappointed and bitter as so many do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MisPandora

<snipped> how about dropping the grocery list of "do me" items and really say that you want to develop a regular play arrangement with someone you can learn from, clearly stating what you've experienced and where you feel your limits may be?

I vote for Mis P's suggestion. Simple and to the point. I should do that more, rather than try to help people by taking the additional step of explaining. *slaps self for being so silly*

_____________________________

Dusty
They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
B Franklin
Don't blame Me ~ I didn't vote for either of them
The Hidden Kingdom

(in reply to hoss78412)

Post #: 20

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