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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 5:50:21 AM   
Kedicat


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Bush could use his personable side to inspire much better things. He does have a good ability to connect. But he doesn't accentuate the positive enough. The administration is squandering his abilities with people. There is an agenda that is so set in stone, that other opportunities are being ignored, and other important problems than terrorism are also being ignored.

It's unfortunate. I don't see a democrat contendor with a good broad people appeal. And what Republican might succeed Bush? The country is in some serious troubles on many fronts. Who's next? Troubled times need a leader that can connect on a broad front. I do blame Bush and his gang for some bad mistakes. But a personality like Bush will be needed to lead out of them.

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 5:54:03 AM   
philosophy


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"What amazes me is when asked a direct and pointed question asking a specific question they get attacked.   I wonder why that is?   I can see opinions being attacked.   I can see facts being disputed.   But questions?  I think that is beneith most of us"

....its those bloody sides again........sooner we realise that politics is best served by consensus not competition the better.......

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 5:55:15 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedicat

Bush could use his personable side to inspire much better things. He does have a good ability to connect. But he doesn't accentuate the positive enough. The administration is squandering his abilities with people. There is an agenda that is so set in stone, that other opportunities are being ignored, and other important problems than terrorism are also being ignored.

It's unfortunate. I don't see a democrat contendor with a good broad people appeal. And what Republican might succeed Bush? The country is in some serious troubles on many fronts. Who's next? Troubled times need a leader that can connect on a broad front. I do blame Bush and his gang for some bad mistakes. But a personality like Bush will be needed to lead out of them.



sounds like a political answer to my question and like most political answers doesn't answer the question.  How about an answer that makes sense to me please

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 5:56:35 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

"What amazes me is when asked a direct and pointed question asking a specific question they get attacked.   I wonder why that is?   I can see opinions being attacked.   I can see facts being disputed.   But questions?  I think that is beneith most of us"

....its those bloody sides again........sooner we realise that politics is best served by consensus not competition the better.......


yeah unfortunately the latter is all to often used.

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 5:59:17 AM   
Archer


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National Debt rises certainly agree with the idea that National Debt is a worry, much more a matter of the fact that we've opperated in the red for so long than that we're in the red now. Like so manny consummers we have gotteused to the fact that we are goig to opperate ver the income of the government. The ammount of red ink  is easily within the ability of the US to pay off should they choose to pay off a debt that is less than 5% of the total economy.

Average Household Debt increases, Yes a problem but nobody is holding a gun to people's heads making them spend more than they can afford. Money was cheap and people too advantage of it. Now it's less cheap but still far cheaper than the 19% prime rate we've seen before.
High Household Debt is not a policy problem but a consumer problem, basein no small part in the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality.

Average Savings Rate goes negative, Again a matter of consumer practice not policy. What are they saving for? retirement? they don't expect they will ever retire.

Job creation Stagnant or Falling, contrary reports on that abound depending on who's projections you look at. But at some point the jobs will stop growing as fast because those evil rich people stop hireing.

Average wage "non rich" falling behind inflation. Average Wage for all those paid by the hour is increasing according to the DOL 2004 stats.
I want to see the figures on this one as I can smell a case of (First goal by a Ugandan wearing a blue jersy) kinda stat being cited here.


Not much one can do about trade defficit when the consumers buy based on price and you simply can't match the price in our country. The president and their policies can do prescious little to keep the Textile mills open when you can't staff them at a living wage and still compete with other nations. 

Factories Close OMG you mean those factories that can't compete internationally because they have to pay union wages here they and the countries where they don't have to are beating the pants off us. Closing factories can be attributed to so many things that government policy has little to do with.

And finally the BANKS are evil and running the world. They facilitate investment and that facilitation has value, what level of value depends entirely on how much facilition you need. Obviously the market for investment is good.



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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 5:59:36 AM   
UtopianRanger


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quote:

I was in HS when Kennedy was killed and definately don't know the economics of the times except I was poor.   A graph, chart, etc would be useful.   You could even e-mail it to me.   I am looking for answers, not retoric



Ken....

I'm not here to poke fun at people....so if you feel I took a shot at you, I apologize, that was not my intention. I guess I'm just a little obnoxious because I don't understand why / how so many have trouble seeing that we've been sold down the road in the name of globalism by BOTH parties… and all the tax cuts in the world are not going to do any good if most of the new job creation is of the Wal-Mart variety.

Don't be surprised my friend, if one day you hear guys like OReilly dedicating segments of their show where they deliver tongue lashings to the average joe telling them they better be lucky, and praise the lord because they have that Wal Mart job.



 - R

< Message edited by UtopianRanger -- 9/21/2006 6:03:48 AM >


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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:00:10 AM   
Kedicat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

What amazes me is when asked a direct and pointed question asking a specific question they get attacked.   I wonder why that is?   I can see opinions being attacked.   I can see facts being disputed.   But questions?  I think that is beneith most of us


It was a weak question. Like a zinger.
My OP was fairly detailed as to the economic state. I didn't say it was better when a Dem made tax cuts. It was about now and how people seem to think everything is rosy in the economic realm.
Your reply had little meaning.
In this present situation it would be stupid for a Dem to make tax cuts in similar fashion.

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:07:55 AM   
seeksfemslave


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All of the points in the OP also apply to the UK...in spades.

GDP is a very misleading indicator of wealth in that it includes things like House Prices and salaries paid for by taxation.
Real wealth is sustained and increases by genuine value added production. like house building, automobiles steel etc.
Not by Bank credit used to buy foreign produced consumer and capital goods.
I think I will go and watch my TV now. English label. Made abroad!

I have been expecting the UK economy to collapse for the last 30 years so there is obviously something I dont get.
An odd FACT is that allegedly fiscally conservative leaders like Reagan and Thatcher end up leaving the government finances deep in the red. The exact opposite of what they claim they believe.

A good War puts people to work...but we dont want that.... do we ?

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 9/21/2006 6:13:00 AM >

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:09:06 AM   
juliaoceania


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Fast Reply,

Going back to the main thrust of the thread (estring's name in it aside, I have no interest in discussing him...lol)

I liked what Utopian Ranger said the other day about inflation eating up any tax break that any of us received, there is a lot of truth to that. Also, interest rates are going up as a direct result of taxbreaks and deficit spending, so any of us that want to get a second mortgage, buy a house, buy a car, or start a business will also have to pay for it in higher interest rates. This hurts the middle class more than the rich or the poor.

What upsets me about the taxcut issue is that we were promised it would trickle down in the form of new job, and that the rich would take their money and give us raises or make new positions. What we have seen is a race to move our jobs to other countries. I think part of the problem with the Bush taxcuts was that there was no strings attached to them. If you target taxcuts to those who are actually investing in this country there is at least some incentive to do so. These taxcuts by and large went to people that were not going to invest all of that relieved tax burden into this country.

Just some thoughts

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:09:17 AM   
Archer


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OK a bit better question then.
Recession can be spent it's way out of, that policy/ tactic has been used several timesand is roven to work does it matter who spends it, the Government or the Private sector propmted by the government policy? Was not the Tax cut simply a policy used to prompt more spending and investment to lessen the impact of a ressetion.The difference in approach is more a matter of who you have doing the spending than that you spend your way out.

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:12:46 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

quote:

I was in HS when Kennedy was killed and definately don't know the economics of the times except I was poor.   A graph, chart, etc would be useful.   You could even e-mail it to me.   I am looking for answers, not retoric



Ken....

I'm not here to poke fun at people....so if you feel I took a shot at you, I apologize, that was not my intention. I guess I'm just a little obnoxious because I don't understand why / how so many have trouble seeing that we've been sold down the road in the name of globalism by BOTH parties… and all the tax cuts in the world are not going to do any good if most of the new job creation is of the Wal-Mart variety.

Don't be surprised my friend, if one day you hear guys like OReilly dedicating segments of their show where they deliver tongue lashings to the average joe telling them they better be lucky, and praise the lord because they have that Wal Mart job.



- R


Actually I thought you were trying to help and took it as a serious offer. 

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:15:54 AM   
KenDckey


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kedicat

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

What amazes me is when asked a direct and pointed question asking a specific question they get attacked.   I wonder why that is?   I can see opinions being attacked.   I can see facts being disputed.   But questions?  I think that is beneith most of us


It was a weak question. Like a zinger.
My OP was fairly detailed as to the economic state. I didn't say it was better when a Dem made tax cuts. It was about now and how people seem to think everything is rosy in the economic realm.
Your reply had little meaning.
In this present situation it would be stupid for a Dem to make tax cuts in similar fashion.



but where are the facts and figures.   I hear your opinion.   I don't have a problem with your opinion but when you won't answer an honest question asking for those facts and figures that you based your opinion on and was willing to read them you appeard to personally attck me, my question et all.  Wouldn't it be better to tell me?   Even if you don't know you could tell me that.

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 6:35:59 AM   
Kedicat


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

National Debt rises certainly agree with the idea that National Debt is a worry, much more a matter of the fact that we've opperated in the red for so long than that we're in the red now. Like so manny consummers we have gotteused to the fact that we are goig to opperate ver the income of the government. The ammount of red ink  is easily within the ability of the US to pay off should they choose to pay off a debt that is less than 5% of the total economy.

Average Household Debt increases, Yes a problem but nobody is holding a gun to people's heads making them spend more than they can afford. Money was cheap and people too advantage of it. Now it's less cheap but still far cheaper than the 19% prime rate we've seen before.
High Household Debt is not a policy problem but a consumer problem, basein no small part in the "keeping up with the Joneses" mentality.

Average Savings Rate goes negative, Again a matter of consumer practice not policy. What are they saving for? retirement? they don't expect they will ever retire.

Job creation Stagnant or Falling, contrary reports on that abound depending on who's projections you look at. But at some point the jobs will stop growing as fast because those evil rich people stop hireing.

Average wage "non rich" falling behind inflation. Average Wage for all those paid by the hour is increasing according to the DOL 2004 stats.
I want to see the figures on this one as I can smell a case of (First goal by a Ugandan wearing a blue jersy) kinda stat being cited here.


Not much one can do about trade defficit when the consumers buy based on price and you simply can't match the price in our country. The president and their policies can do prescious little to keep the Textile mills open when you can't staff them at a living wage and still compete with other nations. 

Factories Close OMG you mean those factories that can't compete internationally because they have to pay union wages here they and the countries where they don't have to are beating the pants off us. Closing factories can be attributed to so many things that government policy has little to do with.

And finally the BANKS are evil and running the world. They facilitate investment and that facilitation has value, what level of value depends entirely on how much facilition you need. Obviously the market for investment is good.





So as things get worse. It is easy to divert money to pay off debt? The economy can easily increase to pay off that daily increasing debt and more? Even as the bills increase daily?

Household debt. Yes if people want to decrease their standard of living. They can avoid debt. Of course that would lower the economy as a whole. Then where would that debt repayment money come from? I agree though, that household and national debt does have to be controlled and it will hurt. I am doing it myself.

Savings rate negative is tied to debt. It isn't even about retirement and such. More about having a little breathing room to avoid more debt. When you are at zero or negative, one bad thing, puts you more negative. More debt.

Those evil rich folks are always hiring. Overseas. Bad news for those buying their products. New job creation is lower or barely even. And the jobs are of increasingly lower quality in the US. Lower pay and benifits. Cost of living increases though. More Debt.

Average wages. Damn hard to pin down. Inflation rate even harder. From an aggregate of articles, data it always seems to point slow loss of ground for a long time. Way pre Bush. http://www.mises.org/story/2302 There is a better article but I can't find it. Inflation is NOT low.

As far as trade deficets go, it is definitely the government who can and almost always has done things about it. Free trade is a scam of the most obvious nature. How do you trade freely with another country that has people who will work for a dollar or less a day, has no healthcare, no labour laws, no decent anything for their people. Answer. Lower your people to that level while skimming off all they have on their way down. Just make sure to bank it in the Caymans.
Tarriffs are what even the playing field, not globalization. Free trade takes money from a big middle class. Skims a huge profit off it and pays a bit to a poor class. The poor get a bit less poor, the middle class get poor, and the go betweens get......can you guess?

Factories close. See above.

If it were only banks making record breaking profit year after year lately. It is the noninvestment type debt that is cranking up various financial institutes profits. And the casino that is the stock market. A good chunk of freed up pension money went into that casino, never to be seen again....Buying groceries and paying utility bills on credit isn't borrowing to invest.


And thankyou for a challenging reply. I wish I could find that consumer price index article again. It is almost funny how they calculate it. But that link gives some good examples of economic lala land that economists live in.

< Message edited by Kedicat -- 9/21/2006 6:39:46 AM >

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 11:22:57 AM   
Amaros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey  
Kidicat  

I just have one question.   Why was it a good thing when Kennedy (a democrat) administration reduced taxes and a bad thing when Bush (a republican) administration did it?
 

I already explained much of this in the other thread, but allow me to reiterate and expand.  

Taxes are but one factor in the total economy: other factors include the labor market - i.e., how many, how mobile, how well educated, etc.  

Another huge factor is infrastructure: transportation, communication, regulation, etc., etc. - without infrastructure, economies simply don't expand, because they can't - growth is largely determined by supply and demand, the larger and more accessible the markets, the more growth is theoretically possible, i.e., business opportunities.  

The Third major factor is innovation: productivity and technological spillover.   Technological spillover creates more business opportunities - the industrial revolution created demand for Oil (Whale oil initially), and increased efficiency drove prices down, creating more demand and a wider range of products available to market, as well as creating jobs and generating personal income to buy those products.  

Internal combustion resolved transportation issues, expanded markets, and created demand for trucks and automobiles, as well as a host of related products from lawnmowers to chainsaws.   Research into IC's in the Sixties and Seventies, led to the development of the PC in the Nineties, while investment in the internet backbone, specifically, protocols developed by the World Wide Web Consortium, that allow different types of computers to exchange data, and yes, funding for which was spearheaded by AL Gore, coincided in the Nineties to expand markets to Global proportions, and set off a round of productivity increases that is largely still driving the American economy.  

Now in 1950, half the homes in the US still didn't have Electricity or running water - the interstate highway structure was just beginning to be built, and we had a huge cache of basic and applied research both from the war effort, and research captured from the Germans.   We also had a huge debt from the war still, and taxes were very high, marginal rates at the top of near 90% I believe.

At the same time, a number of factors combined to stimulate growth: returning vets from the war needed jobs, creating a loose labor market - vets on the GI bill went to college in record numbers and whole generation of scientists, engineers, doctors, etc., etc., was trained. At the same time, the US government was engaged in a massive infrastructure building program: highways, dams, you name it.  

The final factor was technological spillover from all that research that was suddenly available - plastics in particular were almost nonexistent before WWII, and plastics, along with electronics basically drove the American economy well into the Seventies, expanding the range of products available to market, at the same time incomes were rising to buy them.  

Kennedy (or rather, Johnson) cut taxes at the time that the war debt was coming down to manageable proportions, and the cuts were across the board, meaning both middle class (consumer), and upper decile (producer) taxes were cut - you may recall the Laffer curve, which predicted increased savings.  

People didn't save, however, they spent, and they spent in record amounts, driving consumption to unprecedented levels - products ranging from television sets and transistor radios, made possible by the expansion of the electrical grid, to new cars for the brand new transportation infrastructure were irresistible, and changed the entire social and economic landscape of America - we shifted right then from an agrarian social-economy to an urban industrial one.  

So, you had a mobile, highly educated workforce, a vastly expanded infrastructure, and a never-ending stream of technological spillover.  

What happened was this: increased demand created inflation, driving prices up, which in turn led to demands for wage increases to keep pace, which led to increased consumption, which led to more inflation, etc., etc. - what is called the "inflationary spiral" of the Sixties and Seventies.   Productivity continued to increase, it just couldn't keep up with increases in demand, at the same time, those global markets, which the US had enjoyed a near monopoly on since the end of the war, were being encroached upon by the Japanese and European economies that had to be rebuilt from scratch after being almost utterly demolished during the war.  

Inflation, stemming from the Kennedy tax cuts, eventually peaked in the late Seventies, while we began slowly transitioning from a trade surplus to a trade deficit, when Carters appointee to the Fed drastically cut back on the money supply, effectively bringing the whole economy - and the inflationary spiral - to a screeching halt.  

It was under these conditions that Reagan was elected, the recession being blamed on Carter, though presidents, both democrat and republican had been ineffectually trying to stem inflation for almost twenty years, and supply siders under Reagan’s banner instituted more tax cuts.

Continued below:
Edited for spelling and grammer.

< Message edited by Amaros -- 9/21/2006 12:07:09 PM >

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 11:25:17 AM   
Amaros


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This time, it was reasoned, the best way to get growth without accompanying inflation was to cut producer taxes, and leave consumer taxes alone - and this is essentially what happened. Middle class taxes have remained pretty much steady at where Kennedy left them.  

In the early Eighties, marginal income taxes for the top decile were around 70% - there was no war debt, and realistically, there was no reason for taxes to be that high anyway - the "great Society" had succumbed to the law of unintended consequences, so theoretically, these tax cuts should have had a more stimulating effect on the economy than they in fact actually did.  

What screwed it was other republican polices: after all those years of watching their capital, much of it in the form of debt, mortgages, etc., eroded by inflation during the spiral, they were, and still are, utterly obsessed with keeping the inflationary rate down - to this end, middleclass taxes were cut any a little in comparison to upper income taxes, and the fed continued with it's tight money policy up into the mid Eighties.  

Tight money, i.e., cutting back on the growth of the money supply does keep inflation under control - it also raises the cost of money, i.e., the interest rates on boring money in the form of loans or bond issues, which are what businesses typically use to generate capital for expansion - not personal income or stocks.  

Secondly, it makes the dollar "strong" - remember, "the dollar is strong because America is strong"? Trouble is, that a strong dollar means American export goods are at a disadvantage compared to cheaper foreign currencies - the result of keeping a tight rein on the money supply was that the major American export industries went into meltdown - agriculture and steel primarily.  

The final factor was deregulation: Carter had already deregulated the Airlines, and banking deregulation was also penned under Carter, it was only signed into law under Reagan - the thing is, this was an experiment, and you have to keep and eye on experiments or they may go awry, and both of these did.

The Reagan administration cut back drastically on the entire regulatory structure, the agencies that keep track of abuses and holes that often appear only in praxis - ultimately, we got the S&L scandal out of it, a bubble scam financed by individual investors in the middle class who bought up overdeveloped and essentially worthless (then) real estate.  

Agriculture was almost deliberately targeted, I believe, loan extensions were refused, and defaulted farms bought up by agribusiness, now flush with capital from bond issues to private investors and new instruments made possible by banking deregulation.   Consumer housing was also subject to this, and there was a brisk business in foreclosures, as property taxes rose in proportion to growing property values, and entire communities were bankrupted for purposes of commercial development.  

As for the rest, also somewhat deliberate: as productivity increases had not kept up with inflation, it was considered expedient to create a predatory business environment - leveraged buyouts were the tool for this - less efficient firms, rich in physical assets but cash strapped, were bought out, workers laid off and the assets sold off, usually overseas, and what cash they did have - invariably, tied up in their pension funds - used to finance high risk investments, Philippine gold mines and the like, and generally lost.  

Problem was, any firm that was cash poor was a target - whether they were competitive or not - so firms that had invested in capital improvements to improve productivity and quality were just as vulnerable as firms that were simply uncompetitive. There was no distinction made by the crippled regulatory agencies that couldn't keep up, and so the baby was sold off along with the bathwater.  

Upshot of all this, is that while the share of the income going to the top decile and particularly to the top 1%, rose dramatically - income fell for the lower 4 deciles, and the growth was mostly zero sum, i.e., a transfer of wealth from one sector of the economy to another, not "growth", per se.   The economy did grow, of course, but mostly from the momentum of the previous decades, ongoing technological spillover.  

Deregulation did have some benefits, namely junk bonds - this is one where the democrats are dead wrong - junk bonds financed the garage businesses that turned into the high tech giants of the Nineties - Microsoft, Dell, etc. Michael Milken probably had more to do with the 90's tech boom than the entire Reagan administration and all republicans combined.  

The Nineties were essentially a repeat of the Sixties and Seventies, without the inflation: raising taxes kept stock and real estate bubbles down, while paying down the debt reduced interest rates and spurred growth and expansion, at the same time that personal computing and the internet which matured at that time combined to expand markets globally, and begin the drive of productivity gains that are responsible for most of the growth in the 'naughts here.  

So where we at, you ask?   The hand puppets tax cuts drove up the debt, raising interest rates, slowing growth, with negative effects on personal income, decreasing consumption, increasing private debt, while allowing upper income investors to shelter their money in government bonds, export jobs to countries with cheaper and less regulated labor markets, stockpiling cash for the inevitable rash of foreclosures and business failures.  

And we're just talking a few percentage point of taxation here, the effective tax rate, what the top decile actually pays, after shelters, etc., under Clintons high was only around 28, 29% which is probably around what many of you pay.

Edited for spelling and grammer.


< Message edited by Amaros -- 9/21/2006 12:09:28 PM >

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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 11:37:51 AM   
Amaros


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Another place the dems are flat wrong is the accelerated depreciations tax cuts - whiel it means that corporations may pay no taxes during some years, these taxes are actually only deferred.

Meanwhile, these tax cuts are only triggered by depreciation of capital investments, which means that to get these cuts, and firm has to expand, and make those capital investments.

The accelerated depreciation tax cut is one of the few tax cuts that can be empirically demonstrated to have a direct positive effect on growth.

Otherwise, money from cutting corporate taxes across the board, or even income taxes for that matter, can be used in all kinds of ways other than reinvestment in growth - stock dividends, financing outsourcing, bonds, vacations, etc.

Oh, and the "death tax"? you can't tax a dead person, you only tax a living heir on windfall profits - you tax people, not the money itself - i.e. - if that's "double taxation", so is taxing this dollar bill in my pocket since I'm sure somebody, somewhere, has paid taxes on it before I got it.

Gullible doesn't even begin to describe it...



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RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 12:30:05 PM   
Amaros


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The ADHD version is that taxes are only one factor among many in a given social economy: infrastructure, labor markets, education, innovation and market conditions, financial or otherwise are notable.

In this, tax cuts do not axiomatically lead to growth, but rather a number of different factors combine synergistically to create or retard growth.

Ceteris paribus
, lowering taxes in an economy that already has excess liquidity in financial markets is going to have little effect on growth.

If anything, increasing this liquidity (money available for investment) mostly appears to lead to bubbles as it creates more demand for good invenstments than there is supply - invariably, this means too many dollars chasing a handfull of really good investments, and solid, long term investments tend to get shortchanged over sexy, high risk investments.

Re: the money supply.

The tech crash of the Ninties was the result of such a bubble, helped along by opposition to accounting transparency regulations by republicans, and triggered by Greenspans tight grip on the money supply when he raised interest rates.

When the domestic market became saturated, tech firms based their earnings projections on export sales, mostly to Europe - when the dollar remained string against a dropping Euro, these theoretical exports did not materialize, and tech firms, many carrying excess inventory, were forced to restate their earnings projections.

This triggered the selloff, which large financial firms had been anticipating, and with their own traders on the floor, were able to dump their stocks quickly, leaving day traders and amateurs holding the bag.

As this had little effect on consumption, the economy as whole didn't go into recession, the fallout among tech firms was neccessary and overdue, and the unprofitable ones were weeded out.

This would have occured anyway, but more slowly, had Greenspan loosened up on the money supply - meanwhile inflation would have been negligable, IMO, since everything was being imported from China anyway, and only inflation in China would have driven up the CPI.

Greenspan was more worried about wage inflation from the tight labor market though, which, however,  would have been enough to weed out unproductive firms all by itself.

Longer term effects center around the current weaknes in the housing market which continued steadily until just recently, and eventually, this market might collapse entirely, due to the weak economy and rising interest rates, taking a lot of people with it.

The automobile industry too, is primed for a shakeup.


(in reply to Amaros)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 1:59:47 PM   
Kedicat


Posts: 251
Joined: 3/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

OK a bit better question then.
Recession can be spent it's way out of, that policy/ tactic has been used several timesand is roven to work does it matter who spends it, the Government or the Private sector propmted by the government policy? Was not the Tax cut simply a policy used to prompt more spending and investment to lessen the impact of a ressetion.The difference in approach is more a matter of who you have doing the spending than that you spend your way out.


I agree with that in general. It can be a wise course of action to strategically borrow. In a lot of cases, left or right, the tax cuts are not focused properly on the problem areas.
Especially in times where cash and jobs are fleeing offshore, tax cuts need to be very carefully targeted. I feel they were not at all wisely done this time.

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 2:21:04 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
Thank you Archer.   I do appreciate.  At least now I have a better understanding.  They ddidn't teach economics in my HS and the Army wasn't big on it either.   I just wish Kedicat would have answered it half as well when I asked him.

(in reply to Kedicat)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Economics for Estring - 9/21/2006 2:22:06 PM   
KenDckey


Posts: 4121
Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline
shit   I meant amaros.   I have Archer of the brain today   I sincerely and publically appologize.

(in reply to KenDckey)
Profile   Post #: 40
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