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Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 6:37:01 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I thought people might be interested in finding out how many superfund sites were near them. On this link is another link to put your zipcode in and it gives you reports on the most terribly polluted places in this country and if any are near you. It is a big issue since corporations that made this mess are getting out of cleaning it up under the current administration.

I hope your area is cleaner than mine...

http://www.scorecard.org/env-releases/land/

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Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:00:04 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Cite spource for Getting out of paying for the cleanup.
Superfund sites are paid for by the Government because they are orphaned sites, wh's previous owners have gone bankrupt. If the responsible party has been located and is still around they are responsible for the cleanup. (Being an Environmenal Consultant, That's what pays my way)
Having worked Superfund Cleanups I can tell you those sites I have worked were all long abandoned by bankrupt owners who couldn't even sell the property to get out of debt. The changes in the law curently are designed to make it possible to recover some money from the owners as opposed to the owners declaring bankrupcy and paying for none of it.

But it is a good idea to know where these places are. And to keep track of what the policies are changing to.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:03:02 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/02/24/bush.superfund/

http://www.ens-newswire.com/ens/aug2003/2003-08-07-10.asp

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/21/2006 7:04:07 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:17:41 AM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		what they taught me in hazmat school (both the 40 hr and the supervisors course) was that the superfund was basically full time employement for lawyers.

One of the ways that they do landfill mitigation is to turn them into parks.  I have also seen one turned into a historical landmark (which it really was) and getting it registered days before the actual declaration of it being a superfund site.

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:20:13 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Iwould love to know where that was so I do not buy a house there

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:21:06 AM   
Archer


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Status: offline 		ok 1st article mentions no longer taxing currently operating businesses for Superfund Sites they didn't create to be cleaned up. That is what the Suprfund was created to do industry was tapped with the tax because they had indirect benifits. They are not getting out of messes they created they are getting out of messes other corporations created. They are still totally financially responsible for messes they directly created.




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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:24:25 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Corporations are not legally liable like individuals are for the harm they cause. You cannot go back and sue the individuals that made the choice to grossly pollute because they have corporate protections. I wish we could though. Perhaps I am mistaken about that, but that was my understanding in studying this in school

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:25:42 AM   
KenDckey


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Joined: 5/31/2006
Status: offline 		Actually it is in Fresno CA.   It is the first sanitary landfill in the US.   Now they call it Hyde Park.

http://www.fresno.gov/Government/DepartmentDirectory/ParksandRecreation/ParksandFacilities/FindParkbyLocation.htm

BTW   I dont like the neighborhood but there is a farmers market there that has the best BBQ.   I used to eat lunch there all the time

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:27:45 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I live near there...for now... geesh how awful, I hate this area and I am leaving as soon as I get accepted to graduate school

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:28:20 AM   
KenDckey


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Status: offline 		Being serious.   I used to take my grandkids there to fly kites.   nice wind coming off the mound and no wires to worry about.

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:31:02 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I am being serious too, in my neighorhood they recently put up EPA signs warning us about cancer. Where I am thinking about moving is not that healthy either, but at least it is pretty

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:33:13 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		No instead th law now says the man that made the decission can go to jail for he pollution, and the Corporation IS LEGALLY liable for the clean up, Just ask my clients. They are paying for pollution they created after a set date that does not qualify for the State UST programs they pay into every year. It keeps me paid that the law specifies that they are in fact responsible for sites they pollute, In fact the law says  you buy a property and ail to perform an enironmental assessment on the property and they discover pollution on it YOU as the current owner are liable for the cleanup.

Done both those courses and 10+ years of refesher courses KenDkey. And a few more as well, LOL.

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:34:41 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		If they go out of business then who pays?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:42:47 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		If they go out of business the Government pays but the government also gets first crack at the assets. Also the principles of the company are liable both criminaly and financially as individuals You sign the sheet you sign that you knew and supervised the action.So any savings and investments the CEO, CFO, Head of the EHS depthave goes BYE BYE. Just a little deterent to pollution as a policy.

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:46:46 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		But the original thrust of my argument stays the same, we taxpayers end up holding the bag, and corporations that are bankrupt have escaped responsibility for the harm they have done.

Edited to say that the Bush admin has cut the responsibility for corporate responsibility by reducing the amount they have to contribute to the fund, meaning the burden is transferred to us

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/21/2006 7:48:10 AM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:48:04 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The impetu to clean up a site comes from a few places #1 you can't sell a property unless it passes  Site Assessment, Unless you don't barrow money to buy it, every ban in the nationis making sure their loans don't close without a Phase One Site Assessment.So thecurrent owner of a superfund site cannot sell the propey and is paying taxes on that property until they get rid of it, so theywant to sell it. The Government will seek out hoever owns it has owned it as any connection to itwhere there are deep pockets

I have a clent who is paying for the cleanup of polution from aUST that never belonge to him it wa discovered nearby his poperty and the state said you're close by it must be yours. It's taken years and he's still fighting it in ourt but meanwhile he's paying for the cleanup.failure to act means JAILTIME.

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:52:42 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		But your article that you use to back it up is based on the TAX that non bankrupt companies are levied with, who have no connection to the site at all. The companies around today are not the companies that have the superfnd sites. That's what makes them Superfund Sites, the fact that they are not owned by anyone who can pay.


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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:53:10 AM   
Amaros


Posts: 1363
Joined: 7/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Cite spource for Getting out of paying for the cleanup.
Superfund sites are paid for by the Government because they are orphaned sites, wh's previous owners have gone bankrupt. If the responsible party has been located and is still around they are responsible for the cleanup. (Being an Environmenal Consultant, That's what pays my way)
Having worked Superfund Cleanups I can tell you those sites I have worked were all long abandoned by bankrupt owners who couldn't even sell the property to get out of debt. The changes in the law curently are designed to make it possible to recover some money from the owners as opposed to the owners declaring bankrupcy and paying for none of it.

But it is a good idea to know where these places are. And to keep track of what the policies are changing to.


I worked on the Summitville CO superfund site - my biggest single pour, a six foot deep dam, wading in concrete up to my crotch, 2nd degree chemical burns on my ankles. December, 5 or so feet of snow, 0 degree temperatures, with -40 windchill, an interesting job. The prime contractor lost a D11 into an old vertical mine shaft, they couldn't recover it, just buried it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summitville_mine

The Alamosa is essentially sterilized, not even moss will grow within a few feet, the local industries, mostly based on quality waters fishing, are of course, largely bankrupt now.

Funny thing is, the mine was still operating during the cleanup.

I was stationed at Cecil Field FL. during that cleanup, security was very tight, they didn't want anybody knowing they were doing it, lots of PCB's.

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:53:55 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		Then what does this mean Archer?

Cleanup funds from corporations have been dwindling ever since the laws authorizing the taxes that support the trust fund expired in 1995. The Republican-controlled Congress had rebuffed former President Clinton's annual efforts to renew the Superfund taxes.
The Bush administration spelled out the decision not to follow Clinton's lead and try to renew the Superfund taxes in its budget request for the Environmental Protection Agency. The EPA has identified waste sites and coordinated cleanup efforts for the last two decades. \
 

As with previous Superfund debates, Democrats said that corporations should help pay for toxic waste cleanups.
"You're letting the corporations who soiled the environment off the hook," said David Sirota, a spokesman for the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, Rep. David Obey, D-Wisconsin. "When you shift the cost of cleanup to taxpayers, you are taking away funds that could be used for other things, like enforcement of environmental regulations."
 
I took it to mean the burden was shifted to the average American
 
 

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Superfund Pollution Locator - 9/21/2006 7:57:45 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		The burden is shifting from the Corporations that were not responsible for the site being polluted (The compes that are responsible being long bankupt) to the Government.

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