RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship

RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (Full Version)

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panthergoddess -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/15/2005 5:54:49 PM)
There are "Relationship Contracts" instead of Marriages for the Vanilla World....I would highly suggest these Contracts be sought and used in our World as well. Bottom line....we all prepare for any bad or negative thing that may happen in play....and in long term relationships should be no different. One should always discuss plan for and take the proper actions for all of life's "What if's".....be it in or out of the Lifestyle. True it should be the Top's responisbility to address these things but all bottoms should feel comfortable enough to discuss these matters with their Tops should the Tops not have the foresight to do so. How is it so easy to discuss our kinks and everything that may go right or wrong but not the practicalities of life that may go either way as well.

Suleiman -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/15/2005 6:36:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Samizdat stay away from California... home of the professionally idle woman? We have a fair number of professionally idle men, as well. I would, in all likelihood, be counted as one, by your apparant standards. I am a homemaker. I cook, I clean, I do the laundry. My writing brings in a modest income, but certianly not enough to support my share of the bills. Happy little goldbrick me, and all the other people who still live the old lifestyle of one home maker and one bread winner.

MemphisDsCouple -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/17/2005 6:24:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sfgrrl Your last sentence above was all you needed to answer my original post with, and it would have saved us all a lot of time. Thanks for your input. ~stef Internet discussion boards are not a place for people who are concerned with saving a lot of time. And from the tone of your post I get the distinct feeling that you are not very thankful for my "input". Personally, I am here to read and learn, to think and share. As I do these things, I grow in positive ways. As I grow in positive ways my relationship(s) benefit from that positive personal growth. Saving time is not my motivation to be here. quote: ORIGINAL: sfgrrl The questions I'm trying to address are the questions I asked originally. Your original post lacked context and enough specificity to make the questions you posed meaningful for the purpose of basing a discussion on them. Through discussion we sharpened the point of the issue(s) you raised to a degree that we could think about them and discuss them in a (hopefully) productive way. Through our discussions we established that you were talking about a m/s relationship in which there was a commitment: quote: ORIGINAL: sfgrrl "till death do us part" You repeatedly use the vague term(s) "premature ending", "end prematurely" and so on. However, you neglect to say what possible set of circumstances justify that "premature end". In my mind I reviewed all the possible circumstances I could think of. I said I would not break trust and simply send a girl away on a whim. We covered (and agreed on) how the master's incapacitation or death could be planned for. I encourage you to more specificity before you say to me that I am "reluctant to admit" something. I'd be interested in the circumstances of the justifiable "premature ending" you envision. After reading the tone of your last post, combined with your neglect to address the contradictions I pointed out in your prior posts, I suspect this thread did not go the way you had in mind when you first introduced the topic. As I pointed out, you said that we are discussing a m/s relationship with a promise "till death do us part" (her "term of service" as you put it). At the same time you pose the question, what happens to the slave after she has served "several/many years", but obviously not until the death or incapacitation of either the master or slave - not to the completion of her "term of service". I encourage you to resolve this contradiction. I noticed you also declined to respond to the posts that used humor to succinctly address the topic you introduced: quote: ORIGINAL: Samizdat Simple solution (from my perspective): Don't take on gold-digger slaves. They work, they pull their weight like anyone else. Oh -- and did I mention, stay away from California, the only backward (alimony-granting) state left in the Union, home of the professionally idle woman? quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: They work, they pull their weight like anyone else. Oh -- and did I mention, stay away from California, Damn - Two strikes against me! I engaged you on this topic from a sincere motive to think about the good of those in my care and in my home. quote: ORIGINAL: MemphisDsCouple Hi stef. I think you've introduced a very useful and important subject. I offer a couple of first impressions. I did not join the discussion to pander to your preconceived prejudices.

INSIDEYOURMIND -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/17/2005 7:12:22 AM)
quote: I don't think it applies to the scenario Stef presented. What she is talkig about is those owner/slave relationships I think Gloria's comment answers her question very well, even in a D/s relationship, a slave is still an adult, and should plan for her future, even if it means putting $50.00 per month away for a rainy day. My oldest daughter was told by me that she had to begin paying me $100.00 for room and board when she turned 16. She bitched and moaned about it every month. When she turn 20 and decided to get her own apartment, she was surprised to get a check for $4,800.00 from me to get her started. If a Master won't set up something for a sub/slave, it could be considered a red flag. No one wants to talk about the end of a relationship at the beginning, but this type of financial responsibility is important.

Samizdat -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/26/2005 9:20:40 PM)
Quoting INSIDEYOURMIND: "My oldest daughter was told by me that she had to begin paying me $100.00 for room and board when she turned 16. She bitched and moaned about it every month. When she turn 20 and decided to get her own apartment, she was surprised to get a check for $4,800.00 from me to get her started. If a Master won't set up something for a sub/slave, it could be considered a red flag. No one wants to talk about the end of a relationship at the beginning, but this type of financial responsibility is important." Excellent ideas, IYM.

stef -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/26/2005 9:58:00 PM)
Yes it was. Pity that more people in such relationships don't chime in on the topic. ~stef

BlkTallFullfig -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/26/2005 10:31:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sfgrrl Yes it was. Pity that more people in such relationships don't chime in on the topic. ~stef You're right Stef... This is actually the thread ALL of the subs/slaves should read/contribute their thoughts on, rather than starting yet another thread on finacial domination vs prostitution... Everyone is so unconfortable talking about money, that even in this hypothetical situation, they go quiet... I think an opinion here would be much more useful, since I would gather that is what makes people potentially uncomfortable "being left with nothing" (I hope it's not sharing your things while together). Just my opinion, M

Delta06 -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/27/2005 2:20:06 PM)
Being a rather pragmatic sort, it seems to me that we've danced all around the question. Further more, it would also seem that the question, even if answered would not help the author very much. Pardon my saying so, but it sounds to me as if you have some nagging doubts with which to contend. I suggest you do one or two things. At a minimum, visit with a financial counselor. Today, many of them will give you very good advice at little or no charge. Second to that, and perhaps even more important is to seek legal advice in the state in which you reside. Someone (maybe you) mentioned a prenuptial agreement. This is a good example of why, if you're concerned, you should seek legal advice in your state. The power of a prenuptial agreement ranges from "not worth the paper it's written on" in some states, to something approaching the Constitution in other states. Just as a side note, there are attorneys who specialize and are even active participants in D/s and/or BDSM . If I could wax philosophically for just a moment - the entire foundation of a D/s relationship is T R U S T. I know, I know - that is so obvious but it is really at the crux of this entire issue. If you do indeed trust this person to submit your entire being to him, then it would stand to reason that he must be trustworthy...and the sort that would understand and take seriously the journey on which you're about to embark...or...and I don't mean to insult you, you are not a very good judge of character. So, if you've given this your "due diligence" and have determined that he is trustworthy and of good character - perhaps the only action you have left is discussing your financial future in the event of his untimely death.

DeadofKnight -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/28/2005 11:01:37 AM)
These issues of financial obligation are a very good subject to embark upon. And, they have been something I have thought about as well, a lot. Thanks to the many posters here, and elsewhere, there has been a new ripple, a new concept to how I see things in this arena. There are several things to consider within the scope of a relationship concerning contracts, or commitment. 1. What is the length of commitment. 2. What are the duties within the relationship. 3. Is marriage a part of the relationship? There may be more than just these few. But, I feel this cover the basics. There are several things to consider in the ending of a relationship. 1. Does the ending occur because the commitment/contract ends? 2. Does the ending occur prematurely? 3. If #2 is true, who is the one ending it prematurely? 4. Has there been a breach of trust or breach of contract? I'll get back to these. For now, I will share what I prefer to in my relationships regarding the issue set forth by the OP. If I were to have a sub/slave/servant in service to me by contract of a defined time duration, this is how I see I would handle it. 1. There would obviously be a written contract of a specified duration, less than a lifetime of service. 2. There would be a specified amount of money set aside in an account due and payable at the end of that contract. Usually, added to monthly or weekly. 3. A stipulation that the money would only be paid at the end of said contract. 4. If the contract was broken by myself, the lump sum would be payable immediately. 5. If the contract were to be broken by the one in service, no money would be paid. Some may see #5 as cruel, but, think about it for a bit here. When you agree to a contract, you are agreeing to abide by it. As in any contract there are penalties for breach of that contract. Whether it be business or personal, both parties are entrusting that the other party live up to their obligation of the contract. Breach of the contract means that trust has been lost. And, usually, the contract becomes null and void, depending on the stipulations set forth in the contract. If the contract were that of a lifetime of service, the above do not apply. Although, I would set up a similar situation to plan for her (or their) outliving me. After all, they are entrusting me with their very life, I should be responsible to that trust by providing for that outcome. Whether it be a Life Insurance Policy, a Will of any sort, or a bank account to provide for them, it is my responsibility to plan for their future. However, some of those mentioned could be a part of a lifetime contract as well. It is all in what the parties that are making the commitment agree on and entrust within that scope. My views may not be yours and yours may not be mine. These are some of mine. They are how I see what could be a way of doing things regarding commitments and contracts and the financial obligations of a Top/Dom/Master/what-have-you, regardless of gender. DoK P.S. If you find this of any help to you, or you simply wish to copy and/or save any or all of this, you have my permission. But, do not come back to me if they in any way do not work for you at any time. They are simply my views.

match2u -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/28/2005 11:40:20 AM)
hi stef, i find these topic very important.... so far me, as a novice and at the moment in touch to a prospective Master - i am talking, thinking about this topic. no - not cause i am a gold - digger sub/slave i am a single mother, raising my child up at the moment and taking good care to my son - like to me. in responsibility to my son - i have to consider things like this. also i have to consider, what the hell it will not work out at least - not cause i do not want, cause i am not able and the needs of my prospective Master are not met - especially under circumstances being a novice. for myself - i consider myself as a person - i will always get on my feet, in regarding that i am mother - and its my utmost priority - M/s or D/s - i would be the worst mother to deny things can be happen worse - thats just life. i hold by the lines safe, sane, and consensual none told we are just talking about the kinky stuff? did we? these statement should to come in consideration in every aspect of this lifestyle, M/s or D/s.... as much Y/you negotiate the limits - as much Y/you negotiate the terms for every other aspect too - especially in getting involved in longterm just my little view love and hug petra (white snowflake in the ghetto)

DomButNotForgotn -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (1/28/2005 12:30:51 PM)
Assuming you are in a non-common law marriage state, or the relationship is less then 8 years (or whatever the period of time is for common law marriage to apply), I think it is incumbent on the Dom/me to provide for the sub until they can get some financial stability for themself. Anything less is total dereliction of their responsibilities. This may include money for food, housing, and education or training courses to achieve better job marketability, or whatever is realistic for the sub. Certainly, while the relationship is still ongoing, the Dom/me should also have the sub as the beneficiary for life insurance and any pension money, in the event they die, and they might even want to keep the ex-sub as beneficiary until a permanent replacement is found. This is an excellent topic, and should make people more aware of RL obligations, and the dynamics of D/s relationships.

MistressDREAD -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (2/6/2005 7:41:20 AM)
Bliss and Bust This is a very interesting topic that I have been reading but have yet to make comment about.......... I will when I have My whole thoughts and being about ME together as Ive yet to see anyone speak on what I will have to say about this issue.

MistressDREAD -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (2/6/2005 7:47:35 AM)
quote: but where does the responsibility of the master end? One thought I would like to put out there is where does the responsibility of the slave or submissive begin sfgrrl?

RealityFix -> RE: When Bliss Turns to Bust: Financial Realities At the End of a Master/slave Relationship (2/6/2005 9:36:02 AM)
My take on this is somewhat different than most. Firstly, I run a home based craft business. My slave will have plenty of work to do ,both in the house and shop. I actually pay a "wage" per week. In practice, this means she gets some fun money ,earns her keep, and a portion of about 50 % of that will go into her personal "trust fund". It's in her name, and this is her safety net. If I am incapacitated, or for some reason we need to part company (though this is more based on a plan for the worst,hope for the best scenario) she is not left busted. This has one more important aspect. Since slavery in these sorts of relationships is always by consent,it's a reminder that she needs to remain there through being kept in an emotionally and physically healthy dynamic. So there's nothing to prevent her leaving if I screw up and grow too big of a head. I feel that's an important safeguard for BOTH of us.

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