Biofuels whats the whole story.... (Full Version)

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Dtesmoac -> Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 4:56:59 AM)

Biofuels, are they about saving the planet or just fooling the public? Is the intention to allow gas guzzling consumers to continue being profligate but feel like they are being green rather than actually tackling the issue of reducing carbon emmisions?
Interesting story on www.BBC.co.uk

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5369284.stm



meatcleaver -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 5:07:37 AM)

This doesn't surprise me. People seem to be looking for a way to maintain our current proliferate life style rather than changing the way we live. Independent transport if its not person power is always going to have a very negative effect on the environment compared to public transport for the forseeable future and just because pollution and environmental damage is displaced out of sight, doesn't mean its not there. Life style change is far more important than new sources of energy if we want to solve climate change before it is too late.



ScooterTrash -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 5:23:22 AM)

I tend to agree....if you are going to burn something to make energy, you are likely going to leave something behind that isn't environmentally friendly. I don't totally agree with MC on independent transport being the damnation that need eliminated, mostly because independent transportation will always be a necessity outside of metropolitan areas. BUT until a way to do it cleanly is devised, it does certainly multiply the problem.



meatcleaver -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 5:32:24 AM)

I have to agree with you ScooterTrash, independent transport is going to remain necessary for people outside the urban environment. Its inside the urban environment where behavaviour change can make an impact. Most private journeys (I read 60% though I my memory might be failing) are for unnecessary short distances where walking or public transport could be used. Assuming public transport is in place. 



Dtesmoac -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 5:43:20 AM)

Problems that concern me with it are that it is / will be used to allow big car / high fuel usage users delude themselves into thinking that they are being green, and that the drive for profit from biofuels will result in more time effort and money going into "informing the public" rather than actually addressing the issues. The most environmentally friendly biofuels will be the ones that are most expensive and so market forces will drive environmentally damaging crops disguised as environmentally friendly. e.g using corn from US and Soy from Brazil rather than beet from northern areas.




meatcleaver -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 5:53:46 AM)

Yep. We have to stop being 'deadhead' consumerists and realise consumerism is a tyranny and not a liberator. It's a state of mind change we need and look at reality of the situation and not be satisfied with the somnambulant state the market wants to impose on us. We are much too happy being sold a dream.



Dtesmoac -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 5:58:55 AM)

I work within the industrial "environmnetal field" and in the US the drive is for a quick painless fix not for a real solution. petrol (gas) was at $3.00 /gal and everyone was screaming, its back down to £2.19 / gal and they seem to view this as a right no as a short term repreve until it goes thorugh the roof again, and biofuels will just allow then to have the security to continue to use cars and energy wasteful methods  forever. Wide sections of the media still push out that current rapid / accelerated climate change is not man made.Despite all the main US acadmic / scientific societies (with any real weight) consistently putting out reports supporting man made climate change acceleration.

Off for breakfast now, have a good day.




ScooterTrash -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 6:05:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

I have to agree with you ScooterTrash, independent transport is going to remain necessary for people outside the urban environment. Its inside the urban environment where behavaviour change can make an impact. Most private journeys (I read 60% though I my memory might be failing) are for unnecessary short distances where walking or public transport could be used. Assuming public transport is in place. 
Yeppers...and all the more reason that an alternative to the internal combustion engine is really the only long term solution. Electric sounds environmentally friendly, but that many times simply displaces where the "burning" is being done (unless it's from solar sources possibly). I don't see myself pedaling my way to work (too friggin far), but there has to be some alternative way to store up energy that is useful for transportation, maybe a wind up car (just as an example). We really need to start thinking outside of the box to find a viable solution.



Saraheli -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 6:23:23 AM)

I walk or bus everywhere I go. I do not own a car. And I also walk with a cane because of a bad back & hip....I do my bit (of course if I could afford an SUV I'd probably buy one and drive it to the end of the laneway to take out the trash [;)])



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 7:02:38 AM)

The crux of the matter isn't if biofuels are good or bad. The crux is that we simply do not have the space left on the planet, without destroying more of what we have or doing some SERIOUS irrigation, or piling ourselves upward rather than out, to produce enough crops in order to both feed us AND meet current, let alone, projected fuel consumption. If we get into serious irrigation, the cost goes through the roof, making the whole idea moot. We all need to do a combination of things to reduce emissions and reduce our need for the fuel.

Master Fire



babyboyk -> RE: Biofuels whats the whole story.... (9/23/2006 7:31:35 AM)

i was just thinking the whole argument about bio-fuels will be just that for a while, cos at the moment, the politicians seem to be arguing amonst themselves for one reason, or another. and another thing, some people wont be too keen on more foristation being cutdown to make way for fields to grow the crops necessary. it seems to me, that something needs to be done soon, because fossil fuels wont last forever, and unleaded costs around four punds sterling a galon in the UK. but then, if people are prepared to pay that for gas, then it will continue to be sold



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