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Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 7:04:04 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I was wondering how many people belong to another political party in the USA besides the main two? If so, which one? In some places you have to register as independent or as not politically affilitated, I was wondering if some of us are of this persuasion. I am not a member of a political party, although I was a Democrat for a couple of years after election 2000 I realised that it did not represent my interests shortly after and switched back to being not politically affiliated.

I was wondering if those who are members of a third party get tired of partisans of the main parties trying to box them into one of them... like either you are black or white and there is no room for variation. I know democrats want nothing to do with my political ideology, and even though republicans try to force that box on to me, I just do not fit there. Or I have been called a "vote waster" as though either party is owed a vote from me or anyone else for that matter...

I was just wondering how others feel about partisan identification, and if you do belong to a third party, how do you think that a third party can make headway in this system?

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt
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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 7:07:18 PM   
Lorelei115


Posts: 1933
Joined: 8/16/2006
From: Sin City
Status: offline 		I am a Libertarian. So far, the best idea we seem to have come up with is to move a ton of fellow Libertarians to a selected state (New Hampshire) and use our votes to change it to more Libertarian policies. *sigh* The whole thing sounds rather cult-like to me.

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 7:09:26 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Constitution Party.

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 7:18:26 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		Constitution Party.

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 7:47:10 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Neither party fits my belief system.  I am registered as Declined to State.  Unfortunately, a "third party" never seems to work well.  Ross Perot was the closest that came to making a difference and then that turned out ridiculous.  I tend to vote fiscally conservative, as I believe money is mismanaged and hate to give over any more until they can fix the current system -- which will likely never happen.

Edited because for awhile I was Independent but I changed it to Declined to State....and forgot. lol.

< Message edited by ownedgirlie -- 9/24/2006 8:23:55 PM >

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 8:20:01 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		      I'm registered as "decline to state a party."  Currently, I'm pissed at enough high profile Democrats that I'll be voting a (nearly) straight Republican ticket in November.  I don't think a single Congressional seat here in CA will change sides, so it won't much matter really.

     I love the idea of a third party, but nothing out there presently is even close to viable.  The Judean People's Front vs the People's Front of Judea.  They can't even consolidate the Pothead Vote.

    

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 9:16:41 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I was wondering how many people belong to another political party in the USA besides the main two? If so, which one? In some places you have to register as independent or as not politically affilitated, I was wondering if some of us are of this persuasion. I am not a member of a political party, although I was a Democrat for a couple of years after election 2000 I realised that it did not represent my interests shortly after and switched back to being not politically affiliated.

I was wondering if those who are members of a third party get tired of partisans of the main parties trying to box them into one of them... like either you are black or white and there is no room for variation. I know democrats want nothing to do with my political ideology, and even though republicans try to force that box on to me, I just do not fit there. Or I have been called a "vote waster" as though either party is owed a vote from me or anyone else for that matter...

I was just wondering how others feel about partisan identification, and if you do belong to a third party, how do you think that a third party can make headway in this system?


Julia, that happens to me all the time; Democrats call me a "Con" and Republicans call me a "Lib".
I voted for Ross Perot too.
This country really does need a third and forth political party in my opinion.
It's just the same old shit with the Repubs and Dems!

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 9:29:50 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I was just wondering how others feel about partisan identification,


I think it's really sad when the average person automatically jumps to the conclusion that you are aligned with the left the moment they realize that you are not aligned with the right... or vice-versa.

This has happened to me numerous times, though this seems to occur more often with people who are aligned with the right. However, this could just simply be my personal "luck of the draw." 

quote:

and if you do belong to a third party, how do you think that a third party can make headway in this system?


I've voted third party for many years now. 

It will be extremely difficult for any third party to rise to victory anytime soon... if ever. The powers-that-be have a vested interest in keeping the masses polarized under our current two-party system. And most people are inclined to adhere to their blind-faith belief systems which they have endeared themselves to.

How can a third party rise to the occasion? By providing the masses with honesty, truth, and education regarding the monetary system, government, and business. They would need to demonstrate that they do not serve the powers-that-be like the puppets under our current two-party system do.

If a third-party candidate ever gets this far and becomes a perceived threat to the powers-that-be, the question is whether he/she will be allowed to survive.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 10:20:40 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		The thing for me is that I became very political after the 2000 election because I was appalled by what happened as an independent voter. Because I do not like anything that the currently administration does, I used to talk to liberals/democrats/moderate republicans/libertarians from all over the country. I went to one political chatroom in particular to get neat alternative links to stories I did not get from TV, as election 2004 approached I became very disheartened with the "Anyone Bush Bush" squad. The democrats I knew were not demanding a new vision for their party, but insisting those of us who are independent march in lockstep with their party. There was this basic lack of respect for my intellect that I found very hard to take. I think that people need to demand things from their party or their party will cease to represent them.

This is part of the reason why I was so pleased that Joesph Lieberman was ousted, because it shows me there is a willingness to hold people accountable for their record. If we do not get pissed off about things sufficiently to change them, well our leaders have no impetus to change. They think most of us are dumbed down and halfway illiterate (on both sides of the aisle) and our lack of ability to hold on to fine details on important issues like who attacked America on 9-11 pretty much shows our leaders just how gullible we are... and the fact that overwhelmingly you can pick who will win an election by how much funding they have and if they outspend their opponent if they are not facing an incumbant.

The fact of the matter is corporations have the two parties bought and paid for, they do not want to have to spend even more money on lobbyists to undermine a third party.. it is easier to control things if you own both sides... a win win for them

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/24/2006 10:22:32 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to subfever)
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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/24/2006 11:39:04 PM   
Chaingang


Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline 		Democratic Underground? Daily KOS?

I have a short list of extremely important political issues that concern me: healthcare, war, energy, campaign finance reform, electronic voting, corporate responsibility and choice - more or less in that order. As you say, juliaoceania, both parties are overly beholden to corporations to do much good for the people they supposedly represent and that is itself the insurmountable problem.

I don't really care about things like terrorism or the borders but I wouldn't mind the right-wingers getting their way on those issues because it would reveal an enormous hypocrisy on the part of their leaders. If the borders were made safe the government would have to admit that the reason they want to limit civil liberties is because they are afraid of, or merely wish to control, the people of this great nation. With controls so tight it would also be much harder to justify any subsequent acts of terrorism as anything but a) incompetence or b) an inside job. So on a certain perverse level I hope civil liberties are even more severely curtailed on a short-term basis.

I vote my conscious on every issue and for every office. I almost never vote for Republicans, often for Greens or Peace and Freedom candidates, and sometimes for Democrats. I can't think of a time when anyone but a Democrat won when I voted for them. I'd say third party candidates are a good idea but a poor reality. They just don't win - and all the whining in the world about how they surely won't win unless people vote for them won't change that long-standing observation. Still, I throw my votes away fairly regularly hoping to be proven wrong - but not if the race is too close, then I vote for one of the two main parties for sure.

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 12:02:01 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Chaingang you hit one point a glancing blow that deeserves a direct hit.

I've voted Libertarian for the past two elections on every office except the Vote for Bush during 2000.
The next election I vote Libertarian evn for President because of one thing.
I could be sure that the State would go to the candidate I felt was the lesser of the two evils.

The elctoral college was not going to shift based on my vote and knowing that allowed me to vote my mind even with a close race predicted nationaly.
So if you are considering a protest vote  for a 3rd party in most states you can safely cast it, however if you are in a state that can go either way, then maybe you are best served boting for the lesser of two evils as you see them.

The more protest votes you see the more chance the majors will start to listen to that issue or group of issues you care about.


Personally I'm a bit more realistic than  to think the president will come from a 3rd party anytime soon. (in my lifetime)
However 3 or 4 Libertarian House members would make for some interesting debates and serve as a check on the house powers. Just enough of them to swing close votes on bills. Then we'll see some real excitement in Washington for a change rather then the predictable crap we get from the two major parties now.




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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 3:47:40 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		apologies for the mini-hijack..........but as a furriner, i am intrigued by the references to voter registration. Here in the UK we put purselves on the electroral roll but there is no requirement to indicate our voting preferences. From some of the comments here it looks like you are asked that in the states. Why? What possible democratic function does it serve?

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 8:23:55 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

apologies for the mini-hijack..........but as a furriner, i am intrigued by the references to voter registration. Here in the UK we put purselves on the electroral roll but there is no requirement to indicate our voting preferences. From some of the comments here it looks like you are asked that in the states. Why? What possible democratic function does it serve?


It does not serve a democratic function. It serves a republic function.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 8:43:11 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		"It does not serve a democratic function. It serves a republic function."

...should i infer from the non capitals you mean the republic in a state sense, or did you mean party political?

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 9:17:52 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I meant in a state sense

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to philosophy)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 10:15:07 AM   
philosophy


Posts: 5284
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline 		ok.......how does voter registration serve the republic then? What purpose does it serve?

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 10:21:27 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline 		Hi julia. While I'm a registered Democrat, I've voted numerous times for independents and third parties. Something that might interest you all:

A review by The Associated Press of the major gubernatorial candidates' campaign finance reports for the first six months of 2006 found the following notable contributions and trends:

DONATIONS IN TOTAL & DOLLAR FIGURES

Rick Perry, $4.7 million
Carole Keeton Strayhorn, $3.1 million
Kinky Friedman, $1.5 million
Chris Bell, $1.3 million

TOTAL NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL DONATIONS FROM TEXANS
 
Kinky Friedman, 17,668
Rick Perry, 3,371
Chris Bell, 1,461
Carole Keeton Strayhorn, 1,279

TOTAL OUT-OF-STATE MONEY
Kinky Friedman, $269,324
Rick Perry, $212,093
Carole Keeton Strayhorn $59,770
Chris Bell, $35,585

INDIVIDUAL SIX-FIGURE & DONATIONS.

Carole Keeton Strayhorn: $250,000 from John Eddie Williams, Houston attorney; $250,000 from Walter Umphrey, Beaumont attorney; $250,000 from David Alameel, Dallas dentist; $150,000 from Amanda Ryan, spouse of a Ryan & Co. principal in Dallas; $100,000 from Joe Jamail, Houston attorney; $100,000 from Kenneth Banks of International Muffler Co. in Schulenburg.

Rick Perry: $100,000 from Lonnie "Bo" Pilgrim, poultry magnate from Pittsburg.

Chris Bell: $100,000 from Aubrey Smith of Smith Energy in Houston.

Kinky Friedman: $125,000 and $100,000 in two separate donations from John McCall, hair products businessman from Spicewood.

These represent only individual donations made by the contributor and do not count smaller, separate donations that may have been made by these donors or by other donors whose combined gifts could surpass $100,000.
Sources: Texas Ethics Commission; Perry, Strayhorn, Bell and Friedman campaigns.

The above tells me the big money establishment wants the status quo, while the "peons" want change from the major parties. And for those that don't know, the above canidates are the ones running for the governorship of Texas.

< Message edited by Level -- 9/25/2006 10:23:45 AM >

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 11:28:05 AM   
CrappyDom


Posts: 1883
Joined: 4/11/2006
From: Sacramento
Status: offline 		The problem with third parties is that they tend to be made up of people who are unwilling to do the hard work it takes to create a party.  You have to build candidates with experience by getting them elected to local office first.  The Libertarians have started working on that but that goofy party is never going to go anywhere because the minute they get anywhere their internal divisions will tear them apart.

The Greens have a slim chance as some of their ideas would actually improve things and they are also starting to work at the ground level but it is a long slow process and Americans are not a patient people.

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 12:55:03 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

apologies for the mini-hijack..........but as a furriner, i am intrigued by the references to voter registration. Here in the UK we put purselves on the electroral roll but there is no requirement to indicate our voting preferences. From some of the comments here it looks like you are asked that in the states. Why? What possible democratic function does it serve?


OK here's the part that many do not get. You need not register as any party, but solely as an individual IF you are only going to vote in the elections themselves. The Party registration is what qualifies people in most states now to vote in the PRIMARY (basicly an interneal election to see who the candidate for the actual  election later that year will be.)

The law people are citing so frequently at the moment are laws requireing you to only vote in your registered party's primaries. It became a problem when many people would cross party lines during the primaries to ensure the worst of the opposing lot was run againt their party candidate in the fall.

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RE: Third Party Movements - 9/25/2006 3:56:02 PM   
WyrdRich


Posts: 1733
Joined: 1/3/2005
Status: offline 		      And if Archer's reply answered the question, Phil, let me muddy the waters back up.  The two big parties MAY decide to let voters registered as independent or third party vote on their ballot in the primary.  It varies from state to state. 

(in reply to Archer)
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