RE: BDSM Definitions? (Full Version)

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agirl -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 1:14:04 PM)

I understand. I probably have more of an issue with  the *further refining* of what it means to *be* any of the *terms*.

I can't quibble on or *top or bottom*...*masochist or sadist*...I have little experience of people that relate to those and the terms generally used, seem to cover it well enough.

I have no definitions apart from those that have *gone before* me and they seem to serve people well enough in initial contact.

I've been clear on what *slave* means to me..... and I suppose I could say that I must have a *definition* of *submissive* as I don't consider myself one.

agirl





CreoleCook -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 2:58:07 PM)

well, I am glad my definitions were ignored by most... seems my opinions shall remain my own.  ahh well.  cest' la vie.

cc



marieToo -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 3:13:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreoleCook

well, I am glad my definitions were ignored by most... seems my opinions shall remain my own. 
cc


Were they dirty and perverse????



justheather -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 3:26:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
because I define myself as a submissive and will do so even if I wear a collar in the future... the drama and entertainment value of that is somewhat amusing though




Wait, I missed this part.
Subs can't wear collars?
Can they wear white shoes after labor day?



agirl -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 3:29:51 PM)

I don't even know what Labor Day IS but I REALLY want to wear white shoes now.....if there's the slightest chance it's *not allowed* ....grin

agirl



juliaoceania -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:02:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
because I define myself as a submissive and will do so even if I wear a collar in the future... the drama and entertainment value of that is somewhat amusing though




Wait, I missed this part.
Subs can't wear collars?
Can they wear white shoes after labor day?



I saw the original definition like this of submissives and slaves... it is part of what annoyed me, from the original definitions

quote:

Slave; one who yields control of all aspects of their existence to the dominant within the limits agreed upon prior to being collared (these are generally agreed upon moral limits, not to be confused with" I get it my way or I leave or Sam type behaviors). One who is considered to be owned by another as their sole property. One whose submission to their owner/s is total, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in and out of any scenes or play..



 
quote:

Submissive; one who yields power or control to the dominant on a limited basis both during day to day life and during scening or playing. Or one whose nature is submissive, one may be a submissive whether or not they currently are submitting to a dominant, it is what they naturally are. 
 


 
I do not see where a dominant can own a submissive, only a "master" can, and only a slave can be collared... that was my intrepretation of the definitions

So I guess if you have a collar it is not one that signifies ownership, and if it does you do not know what you are doing and someone else is going to label your ass (WEG)



KatyLied -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:07:33 PM)

quote:

Can they wear white shoes after labor day?


Not if they want to meet me for Mexican food & Margaritas.
Unless we are talking about sneakers, then it's okay.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:35:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't even know what Labor Day IS but I REALLY want to wear white shoes now.....if there's the slightest chance it's *not allowed* ....grin

agirl


I'm so glad I'm not alone in that!!! I swear... I don't wear white dress shoes all summer long.... but let labor day pass and it's all I can do to keep from wearing them!!
 
Jewel



justheather -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:36:04 PM)

quote:

I don't even know what Labor Day IS but I REALLY want to wear white shoes now.....if there's the slightest chance it's *not allowed* ....grin

agirl


Well, you're in luck because it just passed not too long ago. Go for it, girl!

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

So I guess if you have a collar it is not one that signifies ownership, and if it does you do not know what you are doing and someone else is going to label your ass (WEG)

Julia, we must all embrace the labels or perish.
The labels are our friends.
quote:

quote:



Can they wear white shoes after labor day?


quote:

Not if they want to meet me for Mexican food & Margaritas.
Unless we are talking about sneakers, then it's okay.


But I really wanted to wear my white go-go boots.


Seriously, though, I didnt read the inclusion of the term "collar" in one definition and its absence in another to mean that collars are only for slaves, but I guess one could look at it that way.
Just for the record, I know submissive women and switches who wear collars, and not just for play, but as symbols of the commitment they have with their partner.

And for the record, lots and lots of subs feel a sense of being "owned". I wouldn't alter my body or hair without the permission of my Daddy. I wouldn't make a major purchase without the nod from him. He tells me what I can and can not wear, not every day, but if he wanted to every day he could (who has that kind of time?). My body is his to do with as he pleases. And Im not the only submissive whose relationship looks like that. So, I would venture to say that lots of people who don't call themselves slaves consider themselves as "belonging to" their dominant partner.



KatyLied -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:42:10 PM)

Well, I hate to proceed with a discussion of "collars", but I see a collar as symbolic of ownership.  I also think that switches and submissives can be owned.  It's not just for slaves. 

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:47:21 PM)

quote:

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


I have white go-go boots... and snake skin boots as well.... I just haven't worn them yet cuz I'm thinking they make look silly on someone my age... yanno?
 
Jewel



juliaoceania -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:49:53 PM)

twicehappy,

I would like to extend an apology for stating I found your behavior childish and petty. I never meant to state I thought you as a human being are those things, just the posts that called my Daddy a "slave" were.



Sinergy -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:50:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

A great deal of his points involved that labels were meaningless, that no term was useful in describing any one thing, witness his argument on the word elephant. That he did not care what any individual called anything.
 


Hello A/all,

Actually, I care what individuals call things.

The method I use to find out what people call themselves is to ask each individual how they label themselves, and if I dont know what exactly they mean by it, I use courtesy and manners and simply ask them to define their terms.

My point in the "elephant" (as you put it) was to point out that people tend to perceive things differently.  This is why when a crime is committed and the police interview 5 eyewitnesses, they will probably get 5 different stories about what actually happened.

Language is a dynamic thing.  It changes over time and adapts to circumstances, much like people do.  Attempts to make language
into a static thing seldom, if ever, actually work.

In terms of your feeble attempts to pick a fight with me by calling me Slave.  I have been involved with any number of people in
the Toronto and New York scene as far back as 2000.  Knew many of the regulars at various BDSM clubs here in southern California.  Additionally, I have read various books about this lifestyle.  Many people, including myself, feel that it is inappropriate for somebody who identifies as a submissive, slave, bottom, floggee, whatever, to attempt to insult somebody who identifies with the other side of the flogger.  Additionally, those I was involved with way back when would consider that it reflected poorly on the Top / Dominant / Master / Whatever in terms of their failure to teach basic courtesy and manners to their sub / bottom / cum bucket / whatever. 

I personally take this one step further and clearly explain to the people I am with that I would rather they abstain from picking
fights or insulting people or whatever.

Personally, doing so is taking my work home with me, and I tend to avoid doing that.  Additionally, I am a longshoreman and I suspect you will fail miserably in your attempts to insult me.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy



justheather -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:51:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


I have white go-go boots... and snake skin boots as well.... I just haven't worn them yet cuz I'm thinking they make look silly on someone my age... yanno?
 
Jewel

Just pair them with understated clothing and they wouldnt look silly.
I say, if you love em and you can afford to buy em....wear em! They arent bringing you any joy sitting in the closet.



Sinergy -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:53:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


Julia, we must all embrace the labels or perish.
The labels are our friends.


 
 
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! 
 
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED BY THE LABELS!
 
Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.
 
Sinergy



juliaoceania -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:54:52 PM)

quote:

And for the record, lots and lots of subs feel a sense of being "owned". I wouldn't alter my body or hair without the permission of my Daddy. I wouldn't make a major purchase without the nod from him. He tells me what I can and can not wear, not every day, but if he wanted to every day he could (who has that kind of time?). My body is his to do with as he pleases. And Im not the only submissive whose relationship looks like that. So, I would venture to say that lots of people who don't call themselves slaves consider themselves as "belonging to" their dominant partner.

 
I thought the slave definition was a definition of what i would one day like my dynamic to become, and I think that slave/sub are very hard to differentiate



Frank01 -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:55:34 PM)

"Oh bother", said the Borg......."We seem to have assimilated Pooh!"



ShiftedJewel -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 4:56:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


I have white go-go boots... and snake skin boots as well.... I just haven't worn them yet cuz I'm thinking they make look silly on someone my age... yanno?
 
Jewel

Just pair them with understated clothing and they wouldnt look silly.
I say, if you love em and you can afford to buy em....wear em! They arent bringing you any joy sitting in the closet.


Define "understated clothing"??
 
Lmao... ok, I'm not being a smart ass... at least not this time... What do you mean by understated clothing? I'm guessing that doesn't include a mini-skirt?
 
And if you've never shopped at electrique boutique you should... very affordable!! It's online.. just add the dot com.
 
Jewel



justheather -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 5:08:42 PM)

No, miniskirts can be "understated". I just meant like maybe wear all one color and have the boots be the "Zing" in the outfit...as opposed to several pieces that "pop", you just would wear like maybe all black, skirt, top, jacket and then the snakeskin boots would really stand out as an awesome accessory, as opposed to like when you see people with too much going on at one time and the cool pieces get lost.
Does that make sense?
And I refuse to define "understated". You must ask each piece of clothing to label itself.



ScooterTrash -> RE: BDSM Definitions? (9/29/2006 5:09:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

twicehappy,

I would like to extend an apology for stating I found your behavior childish and petty. I never meant to state I thought you as a human being are those things, just the posts that called my Daddy a "slave" were.
Her intent was more to show that labels, definitions, whatever you want to call them...do have established meanings and when improperly applied, either create confusion, or in some cases, can downright tick people off. All of the terms that are being discussed, actually already do have fairly well accepted meanings, enough so that many authors include them in their BDSM publications. Although folks may certainly have the right to object or disagree with those meaning, but that fact remains, they already exist. The outcome of the results from this thread would likely have little or no affect on that fact. Granted, the terms may simply be a broad starting point and if put on a flow chart, they would appear at a high level. The finite definition to "ones" particular placement could then be done with more specific criteria at a lower level or "branch", as someone else put it, but there still needs to be that starting point.  



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