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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 1:14:04 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I understand. I probably have more of an issue with  the *further refining* of what it means to *be* any of the *terms*.

I can't quibble on or *top or bottom*...*masochist or sadist*...I have little experience of people that relate to those and the terms generally used, seem to cover it well enough.

I have no definitions apart from those that have *gone before* me and they seem to serve people well enough in initial contact.

I've been clear on what *slave* means to me..... and I suppose I could say that I must have a *definition* of *submissive* as I don't consider myself one.

agirl




< Message edited by agirl -- 9/29/2006 1:15:08 PM >

(in reply to twicehappy)
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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 2:58:07 PM   
CreoleCook


Posts: 321
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		well, I am glad my definitions were ignored by most... seems my opinions shall remain my own.  ahh well.  cest' la vie.

cc

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"I was thinking of the immortal words of socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'" ~Chris Knight, Real Genius

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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 3:13:05 PM   
marieToo


Posts: 3595
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreoleCook

well, I am glad my definitions were ignored by most... seems my opinions shall remain my own. 
cc


Were they dirty and perverse????

_____________________________

marie.


I give good agita.









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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 3:26:07 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
because I define myself as a submissive and will do so even if I wear a collar in the future... the drama and entertainment value of that is somewhat amusing though




Wait, I missed this part.
Subs can't wear collars?
Can they wear white shoes after labor day?


_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 3:29:51 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		I don't even know what Labor Day IS but I REALLY want to wear white shoes now.....if there's the slightest chance it's *not allowed* ....grin

agirl

(in reply to justheather)
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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:02:02 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania
because I define myself as a submissive and will do so even if I wear a collar in the future... the drama and entertainment value of that is somewhat amusing though




Wait, I missed this part.
Subs can't wear collars?
Can they wear white shoes after labor day?



I saw the original definition like this of submissives and slaves... it is part of what annoyed me, from the original definitions

quote:

Slave; one who yields control of all aspects of their existence to the dominant within the limits agreed upon prior to being collared (these are generally agreed upon moral limits, not to be confused with" I get it my way or I leave or Sam type behaviors). One who is considered to be owned by another as their sole property. One whose submission to their owner/s is total, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in and out of any scenes or play..



 
quote:

Submissive; one who yields power or control to the dominant on a limited basis both during day to day life and during scening or playing. Or one whose nature is submissive, one may be a submissive whether or not they currently are submitting to a dominant, it is what they naturally are. 
 


 
I do not see where a dominant can own a submissive, only a "master" can, and only a slave can be collared... that was my intrepretation of the definitions

So I guess if you have a collar it is not one that signifies ownership, and if it does you do not know what you are doing and someone else is going to label your ass (WEG)

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 9/29/2006 4:04:12 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to justheather)
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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:07:33 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

Can they wear white shoes after labor day?


Not if they want to meet me for Mexican food & Margaritas.
Unless we are talking about sneakers, then it's okay.


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(in reply to justheather)
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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:35:10 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl

I don't even know what Labor Day IS but I REALLY want to wear white shoes now.....if there's the slightest chance it's *not allowed* ....grin

agirl


I'm so glad I'm not alone in that!!! I swear... I don't wear white dress shoes all summer long.... but let labor day pass and it's all I can do to keep from wearing them!!
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:36:04 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
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quote:

I don't even know what Labor Day IS but I REALLY want to wear white shoes now.....if there's the slightest chance it's *not allowed* ....grin

agirl


Well, you're in luck because it just passed not too long ago. Go for it, girl!

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

So I guess if you have a collar it is not one that signifies ownership, and if it does you do not know what you are doing and someone else is going to label your ass (WEG)

Julia, we must all embrace the labels or perish.
The labels are our friends.
quote:

quote:



Can they wear white shoes after labor day?


quote:

Not if they want to meet me for Mexican food & Margaritas.
Unless we are talking about sneakers, then it's okay.


But I really wanted to wear my white go-go boots.


Seriously, though, I didnt read the inclusion of the term "collar" in one definition and its absence in another to mean that collars are only for slaves, but I guess one could look at it that way.
Just for the record, I know submissive women and switches who wear collars, and not just for play, but as symbols of the commitment they have with their partner.

And for the record, lots and lots of subs feel a sense of being "owned". I wouldn't alter my body or hair without the permission of my Daddy. I wouldn't make a major purchase without the nod from him. He tells me what I can and can not wear, not every day, but if he wanted to every day he could (who has that kind of time?). My body is his to do with as he pleases. And Im not the only submissive whose relationship looks like that. So, I would venture to say that lots of people who don't call themselves slaves consider themselves as "belonging to" their dominant partner.


< Message edited by justheather -- 9/29/2006 4:42:35 PM >

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 229
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:42:10 PM   
KatyLied


Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Well, I hate to proceed with a discussion of "collars", but I see a collar as symbolic of ownership.  I also think that switches and submissives can be owned.  It's not just for slaves. 

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


_____________________________

“If you want to live a happy life, tie it to a goal, not to people or things.”
- Albert Einstein

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 230
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:47:21 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


I have white go-go boots... and snake skin boots as well.... I just haven't worn them yet cuz I'm thinking they make look silly on someone my age... yanno?
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

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RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:49:53 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		twicehappy,

I would like to extend an apology for stating I found your behavior childish and petty. I never meant to state I thought you as a human being are those things, just the posts that called my Daddy a "slave" were.

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 232
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:50:32 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: twicehappy

A great deal of his points involved that labels were meaningless, that no term was useful in describing any one thing, witness his argument on the word elephant. That he did not care what any individual called anything.
 


Hello A/all,

Actually, I care what individuals call things.

The method I use to find out what people call themselves is to ask each individual how they label themselves, and if I dont know what exactly they mean by it, I use courtesy and manners and simply ask them to define their terms.

My point in the "elephant" (as you put it) was to point out that people tend to perceive things differently.  This is why when a crime is committed and the police interview 5 eyewitnesses, they will probably get 5 different stories about what actually happened.

Language is a dynamic thing.  It changes over time and adapts to circumstances, much like people do.  Attempts to make language
into a static thing seldom, if ever, actually work.

In terms of your feeble attempts to pick a fight with me by calling me Slave.  I have been involved with any number of people in
the Toronto and New York scene as far back as 2000.  Knew many of the regulars at various BDSM clubs here in southern California.  Additionally, I have read various books about this lifestyle.  Many people, including myself, feel that it is inappropriate for somebody who identifies as a submissive, slave, bottom, floggee, whatever, to attempt to insult somebody who identifies with the other side of the flogger.  Additionally, those I was involved with way back when would consider that it reflected poorly on the Top / Dominant / Master / Whatever in terms of their failure to teach basic courtesy and manners to their sub / bottom / cum bucket / whatever. 

I personally take this one step further and clearly explain to the people I am with that I would rather they abstain from picking
fights or insulting people or whatever.

Personally, doing so is taking my work home with me, and I tend to avoid doing that.  Additionally, I am a longshoreman and I suspect you will fail miserably in your attempts to insult me.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to twicehappy)
Profile   Post #: 233
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:51:05 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


I have white go-go boots... and snake skin boots as well.... I just haven't worn them yet cuz I'm thinking they make look silly on someone my age... yanno?
 
Jewel

Just pair them with understated clothing and they wouldnt look silly.
I say, if you love em and you can afford to buy em....wear em! They arent bringing you any joy sitting in the closet.


_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 234
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:53:11 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


Julia, we must all embrace the labels or perish.
The labels are our friends.


 
 
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE! 
 
YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED BY THE LABELS!
 
Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.
 
Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 235
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:54:52 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

And for the record, lots and lots of subs feel a sense of being "owned". I wouldn't alter my body or hair without the permission of my Daddy. I wouldn't make a major purchase without the nod from him. He tells me what I can and can not wear, not every day, but if he wanted to every day he could (who has that kind of time?). My body is his to do with as he pleases. And Im not the only submissive whose relationship looks like that. So, I would venture to say that lots of people who don't call themselves slaves consider themselves as "belonging to" their dominant partner.

 
I thought the slave definition was a definition of what i would one day like my dynamic to become, and I think that slave/sub are very hard to differentiate

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 236
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:55:34 PM   
Frank01


Posts: 270
Joined: 9/7/2006
Status: offline 		"Oh bother", said the Borg......."We seem to have assimilated Pooh!"

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 237
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 4:56:01 PM   
ShiftedJewel


Posts: 2492
Joined: 12/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather


quote:

ORIGINAL: ShiftedJewel

quote:

ps....go-go boots are acceptable.  Very acceptable.


I have white go-go boots... and snake skin boots as well.... I just haven't worn them yet cuz I'm thinking they make look silly on someone my age... yanno?
 
Jewel

Just pair them with understated clothing and they wouldnt look silly.
I say, if you love em and you can afford to buy em....wear em! They arent bringing you any joy sitting in the closet.


Define "understated clothing"??
 
Lmao... ok, I'm not being a smart ass... at least not this time... What do you mean by understated clothing? I'm guessing that doesn't include a mini-skirt?
 
And if you've never shopped at electrique boutique you should... very affordable!! It's online.. just add the dot com.
 
Jewel

_____________________________

Don't ask, trust me, you won't like the answer... no one ever does.

(in reply to justheather)
Profile   Post #: 238
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 5:08:42 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		No, miniskirts can be "understated". I just meant like maybe wear all one color and have the boots be the "Zing" in the outfit...as opposed to several pieces that "pop", you just would wear like maybe all black, skirt, top, jacket and then the snakeskin boots would really stand out as an awesome accessory, as opposed to like when you see people with too much going on at one time and the cool pieces get lost.
Does that make sense?
And I refuse to define "understated". You must ask each piece of clothing to label itself.

_____________________________

I want the scissors to be sharp
And the table perfectly level
When you cut me out of my life
And paste me in that book you always carry.
-Billy Collins

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)
Profile   Post #: 239
RE: BDSM Definitions? - 9/29/2006 5:09:12 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

twicehappy,

I would like to extend an apology for stating I found your behavior childish and petty. I never meant to state I thought you as a human being are those things, just the posts that called my Daddy a "slave" were.
Her intent was more to show that labels, definitions, whatever you want to call them...do have established meanings and when improperly applied, either create confusion, or in some cases, can downright tick people off. All of the terms that are being discussed, actually already do have fairly well accepted meanings, enough so that many authors include them in their BDSM publications. Although folks may certainly have the right to object or disagree with those meaning, but that fact remains, they already exist. The outcome of the results from this thread would likely have little or no affect on that fact. Granted, the terms may simply be a broad starting point and if put on a flow chart, they would appear at a high level. The finite definition to "ones" particular placement could then be done with more specific criteria at a lower level or "branch", as someone else put it, but there still needs to be that starting point.  

_____________________________

Formal symbolic representation of qualitative entities is doomed to its rightful place of minor significance in a world where flowers and beautiful women abound.
-Albert Einstein

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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