RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied

RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (Full Version)

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NastyDaddy -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 2:11:22 PM)
Earlier in this thread you demonstrated a very personal non-corporate position, stating there's no way you would allow your son to be drafted into a useless war such as this one. Is there a war you would allow your son to be drafted into? Is it the actual existence of war and a fear of your son being drafted into it that is the basis for your concerns? These are all quite understandable factors, but losing scope of world events, advocating circling the wagons and a retreat home to fight the battles here may not be the actual better alternative at hand. The lessor of two evils is to not have the bombs blowing up here, or planes flying into buildings by a militant force that doesn't care whether it kills men, women or children... their target is fear in the heart of mothers, to force submission to their chosen way. Is the answer something the French tried... with a Foreign Legion of our worst and outcasts... who are all mother's sons also? Who's son's or daughters should be used in our defense when the bloodletting comes home, after we do? Where does that buck stop?

Archer -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 2:19:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster So what? This thread isn't about you. It's about the people who are in charge of the military and--last I checked--some guy named Archer on Collarme wasn't one of them. I'm always amused by the way these military types claim some kind of special authority and insight. If you served, you VOLUNTEERED to join the military. Remember? My grandfather fought in World War I. My uncle fought in World War II. My Dad fought in the Korean War. Can your family match that? I doubt it. And they weren't volunteers, either. quote: ORIGINAL: Archer Militry family, Military service as an Officer, best freind is in Iraq for the second time. LOL Unzips and breaks out his pedigree, LOL Dad career AF in SE asia during Viet Nam, Step Father WWII and Korea, Grandfather was not in WWII because he was a foundry worker and thus not drafted, Brother Former Marine, One Step brother former Army, other step brother Navy, Best freind is in Iraq right now. And all the pedigree was for was the ad hominem attack of "chickenhawk". That's all that I cited it for. I have dogs in this fight and did my military time so the chicken hawk attack was a bullshit cheapshot taken from a point of ignorance.

MASTERRocker -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 2:23:17 PM)
Well said 'chickenhawk'...... It is not that they are there but the why. They obey, serve with honour, and sacrifice

Lordandmaster -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 2:25:25 PM)
He wasn't calling YOU a chickenhawk, Archer. Maybe you misunderstood what he was saying. He was saying that you were probably applauding when some civilian chickenhawk with no military experience criticized generals who said that more troops were necessary in Iraq. Now maybe you did applaud that back then, and maybe you didn't. That's between you and him. But at least understand the nature of the insult you received. quote: ORIGINAL: Archer And all the pedigree was for was the ad hominem attack of "chickenhawk".

juliaoceania -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 2:29:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy Earlier in this thread you demonstrated a very personal non-corporate position, stating there's no way you would allow your son to be drafted into a useless war such as this one. Is there a war you would allow your son to be drafted into? Is it the actual existence of war and a fear of your son being drafted into it that is the basis for your concerns? These are all quite understandable factors, but losing scope of world events, advocating circling the wagons and a retreat home to fight the battles here may not be the actual better alternative at hand. The lessor of two evils is to not have the bombs blowing up here, or planes flying into buildings by a militant force that doesn't care whether it kills men, women or children... their target is fear in the heart of mothers, to force submission to their chosen way. Is the answer something the French tried... with a Foreign Legion of our worst and outcasts... who are all mother's sons also? Who's son's or daughters should be used in our defense when the bloodletting comes home, after we do? Where does that buck stop? can you quote that from this thread about my son, I was posting a news link about not enough troops and I offered a few views of the mismanagement of the war. I do not want to draft my child for a war that others supported starting (I am a conscientous objector). If you have no problem with the war, I suggest you send your kids to fight it.. but that is not what this thread was about... you are taking other threads and making points from those threads and depositing them here. I am afraid that the war is going to go into Iran because I hear the same rhetoric being used to invade Iran as was used to invade Iraq... and if we do a draft is something I fear. You know, I will pick up a pitchfork to defend my region of this country, it is not under attack,.... i do not ask my child to do anything I would not be willing to do. I think perhaps all middle aged white men should enlist since they are the ones so positively absolutely in favor of war. They should be willing to fight it.. but they aren't

NastyDaddy -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 2:50:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania You nihilist! Unfortunately I have a child that is going to inherit this mess, and I am sickened by it all, but material wealth never meant much to me This is the reference in this thread. Other threads were more adamant towards fears of a draft involving your son. quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: ORIGINAL: NastyDaddy Earlier in this thread you demonstrated a very personal non-corporate position, stating there's no way you would allow your son to be drafted into a useless war such as this one. Is there a war you would allow your son to be drafted into? Is it the actual existence of war and a fear of your son being drafted into it that is the basis for your concerns? These are all quite understandable factors, but losing scope of world events, advocating circling the wagons and a retreat home to fight the battles here may not be the actual better alternative at hand. The lessor of two evils is to not have the bombs blowing up here, or planes flying into buildings by a militant force that doesn't care whether it kills men, women or children... their target is fear in the heart of mothers, to force submission to their chosen way. Is the answer something the French tried... with a Foreign Legion of our worst and outcasts... who are all mother's sons also? Who's son's or daughters should be used in our defense when the bloodletting comes home, after we do? Where does that buck stop? can you quote that from this thread about my son, I was posting a news link about not enough troops and I offered a few views of the mismanagement of the war. I do not want to draft my child for a war that others supported starting (I am a conscientous objector). If you have no problem with the war, I suggest you send your kids to fight it.. but that is not what this thread was about... you are taking other threads and making points from those threads and depositing them here. I am afraid that the war is going to go into Iran because I hear the same rhetoric being used to invade Iran as was used to invade Iraq... and if we do a draft is something I fear. You know, I will pick up a pitchfork to defend my region of this country, it is not under attack,.... i do not ask my child to do anything I would not be willing to do. I think perhaps all middle aged white men should enlist since they are the ones so positively absolutely in favor of war. They should be willing to fight it.. but they aren't Your reference to middle aged white men and only defending your locality with a pitch fork don't make much sense. First it was let's be worried about it when it comes to the US... now it's lets Cali folks only worry about it when it gets to Cali... then what? If your middle aged white man enlistment statement was directed at me, I would be quick to have you note my 20 years of service including combat are there. I used the pitchfork already julia... and I'm glad there are those behind me also holding their's.... without backing up all the way to their locality, saying to hell with mine.. or localities of other citizens.

juliaoceania -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 3:11:01 PM)
How was that a reference to the draft? he is inheriting the deficit from fighting this war Actually 99.9% of my posts have squat to do with you. My statement runs towards our leaders who started the war, but there is this song that says "You're so vain...", and I have no clue what age you are, and your service, while admirable, does not mean anything to me much more than anything else about your life. Stop trying to hijack this thread by making it about my son and my personal life and debate the issues or do not address me.

CrappyDom -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 4:17:25 PM)
The whole bullshit problem with this thread and others about Iraq is this: If you wanted Saddam out because he was a brutal dictator and killed his own people then you can't walk away from the brutal violence we unleashed on those very same people. So you CAN'T dismiss the ethnic violence as "not our problem" or "not caused by us" because it WAS FUCKING CAUSED BY US under the current bullshit reason (I can't remember what it was last week) of "Rumsfeld's buddy was using the poision gas we gave him" and was killing people because far more people are dying under us than under Saddam so who the hell is the evil bastard now? Of course logic, integrity, moral consistency, and honor are rarely found in the cheerleaders for this Administration.

NastyDaddy -> RE: General: Appeals for More Troops Were Denied (9/28/2006 4:34:32 PM)
Don't take it so personal when you make it so personal. My comments relate to shortages of troops that you were discussing, repeatedly asking your question of where the buck stops? The issue of sending more troops or not would still draw from the same resources, citizen's sons and daughters, and in many cases non citizens. So, if there is an issue with not having enough troops to send here, there... then where do they come from when we need more? If they are not available should we pack up and go home so we don't need any more? Perhaps we should just listen and let you decide we have lost this war? Many will agree with you, while many will not, that's just the way it is. It's very obvious many elected and appointed officials have little understanding of military logistics or operations. When they get to make decisions it often creates austere conditions for the actual troops, this is known all the way to their level. Politics and ass kissing are qualities people often use for self or job preservation. No wonder nobody in a political position tends to publicly badmouth their boss... in the military it is a punishable offense, and can be regarded as insubordination. Once that political threat was removed by their retiring, the generals mouths opened up. No surprise many retired generals also function as commentators for news media, as military experts. All this and I still am not defending Rumsfeld, I personally think he's an ass kissing clown in the bigger home picture as most presidential political appointees are. Do the president's men always get their just due? Bringing the troops home and concede defeat on political appointee mistakes in strategy is not in my opinion the best answer.

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