RE: Transplants in China

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UtopianRanger -> RE: Transplants in China (9/29/2006 11:50:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster Yeah, they talk a lot. I'm hardly a fan of outsourcing, but I'm wondering how we're supposed to just give them the boot. That sounds like taking our football and going home because we don't like the way the game is going. Or closing our eyes and pretending they can't see us because we can't see them. quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger I'll just say that it wasn't long ago that I listened to a translated speech from the number two or three in command Chinese General that said they would go as far as to launch a preemptive nuclear strike on Los Angeles if we interdicted/ helped defend Taiwan when they get ready to storm the Island shortly after the 2008 Olympics. Heh......I consider you to be a man of ''books and papers'' so I'll offer you the opportunity to read ''Deception'' on my dime ...... You can charge it to my Amazon account and just consider it an early Christmas present - Then come back after you've read it and tell me if you think China is still possibly an ''Ally'' [;)] http://www.amazon.com/Deception-Charles-R-Smith/dp/0976116804/sr=8-11/qid=1159597550/ref=sr_1_11/102-6440180-6545734?ie=UTF8&s=books - R

SirKenin -> RE: Transplants in China (9/29/2006 11:53:50 PM)
It is a non issue really. They do not execute children. So whether you would or not is immaterial.

Zensee -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 1:11:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SirKenin It is a non issue really. They do not execute children. So whether you would or not is immaterial. WTF? Was this in response to my comment? If so, how do you mean it's a non issue? What is a non issue? Please be a little specific. And who said anything about executing children? They just imprison them in factories to make cheap shit to sell in North America. They can always execute them when they attain majority. So tell us - would you accept transplant organs in China that might be from political prisoners? 0

SirKenin -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 2:11:11 AM)
Oh, that was in response to a few posts on the first page. I am coming in rather late. I do not think any transplant is worth 10's of thousands of pounds (of steak). No, when My time comes I will be happy to just die. I just hope that I have done everything I wanted to by then.

popeye1250 -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 4:17:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 Zensee, but wouldn't you rather get a vacation out of the deal with all the money you'd save by getting a transplant in China instead of the U.S.? I know I would! Think about it, probably your one chance in a lifetime to see the Great Wall of China, that new Dam they're building, that huge gorge, Hong Kong, Peiking and you'd still have about $20k American in your pocket! Not a lot to think about my friend! Actually, because I live in a humane country, there is no cost for me to get a transplant in Canada. But, supposing I had to pay cash - still, I would not take the Chinese route, regardless of the savings or holiday opportunity. There may be not a lot to think about for you but that doesn't mean everyone should be thoughtless or can be. 0 Oh,...now I see! You live in Canada and would have your transplant paid for but you'd tell someone in the U.S. not to go to China! "I got mine so screw you!" Wow! The hypocracy from the left is stunning!

Estring -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 4:43:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule I consider all transplants immoral. I can understand desperate relatives to give up a kidney to save a loved one, but even that I do not approve off either. When it is your time, it is your time. Do not cling to life, as it often only serves to extend your suffering. I am also opposed to most medical treatments. It is only very rarely that someone is truly cured by it. (antibiotics and aspirin being just about the only effective medications) Usually when someone gets another medication for one illness their health in other respects starts to go downhill quickly. Talk about nonsense. I had a ruptured appendix when I was 10 years old. Was that my time to go? Should my parents have not taken me to the hospital and just let me die? I will bet that when you have a life threatening illness, you will be the first in line for the cure.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 7:26:46 AM)
You really think we don't spy on China? Well...we do. Allies aren't necessarily friends. You don't have to love your ally; you don't even have to agree with their basic views and policies. You just have to know how they're going to behave. I think we have a pretty good handle on how China is going to behave (at least as long as the technocrats are in power). They're a hell of a lot more predictable than some of the other allies we've been trying to cultivate recently. I'm thinking Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, some of those basketcase nations in South America--you name it. quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger Then come back after you've read it and tell me if you think China is still possibly an ''Ally''

Zensee -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 10:31:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee But, supposing I had to pay cash - still, I would not take the Chinese route, regardless of the savings or holiday opportunity. 0 Oh,...now I see! You live in Canada and would have your transplant paid for but you'd tell someone in the U.S. not to go to China! "I got mine so screw you!" Wow! The hypocracy from the left is stunning! Guess you selectively missed my qualifier - just looking for what you wanted to see in my comment? To clarify - I wasn't telling anynoe else what to do, just saying what I'd do. Whether or not I had to pay I would not use the body parts of people murdered by a totalitarian regime. You may return from orbit now. 0

popeye1250 -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 1:18:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: Zensee But, supposing I had to pay cash - still, I would not take the Chinese route, regardless of the savings or holiday opportunity. 0 Oh,...now I see! You live in Canada and would have your transplant paid for but you'd tell someone in the U.S. not to go to China! "I got mine so screw you!" Wow! The hypocracy from the left is stunning! Guess you selectively missed my qualifier - just looking for what you wanted to see in my comment? To clarify - I wasn't telling anynoe else what to do, just saying what I'd do. Whether or not I had to pay I would not use the body parts of people murdered by a totalitarian regime. You may return from orbit now. 0 Zensee, if you don't want to do it fine. But why should other people not be able to do it? I don't smoke pot but I don't preach that other people shouldn't do it. Some people think pot smoking is "immoral."

raiken -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 1:33:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule I consider all transplants immoral. I can understand desperate relatives to give up a kidney to save a loved one, but even that I do not approve off either. When it is your time, it is your time. Do not cling to life, as it often only serves to extend your suffering. I am also opposed to most medical treatments. It is only very rarely that someone is truly cured by it. (antibiotics and aspirin being just about the only effective medications) Usually when someone gets another medication for one illness their health in other respects starts to go downhill quickly. Look up what happens in the body from taking antibiotics on a biochemical and physiological level and study...you would be amazed.

LadyEllen -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 1:43:35 PM)
So, there is a fair proportion of posts here which see no problem in taking advantage of organ donation from executed Chinese prisoners. Now lets mix it up with the "Las Vegas cop" thread. Would it be acceptable for the US government to intern illegal immigrants and, lets not say execute them......... but say, take one kidney and one lung from each, for donation to US citizens at no cost? In return for the "donation", the illegal immigrant would be given, say USD 10,000-00, and sent home - enough money to last them a good while in their homelands. Each illegal immigrant would be interned on discovery - those who have not yet made amends for their illegal entry by way of "donation" would go for surgery, those who have made such amends in the past would be shot. Would this be just as acceptable, less acceptable, or more acceptable, to those who see no problem with the Chinese situation? E

Rule -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 2:27:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule When it is your time, it is your time. Do not cling to life, as it often only serves to extend your suffering. I am also opposed to most medical treatments. quote: ORIGINAL: Estring Talk about nonsense. Where? Did you miss the significant word that I have made bold in the above quote? quote: ORIGINAL: Estring I had a ruptured appendix when I was 10 years old. Was that my time to go? Apparently not. Where did you read that I am opposed to treating a ruptured appendix? quote: ORIGINAL: Estring Should my parents have not taken me to the hospital and just let me die? I bled to death late in the evening when I was barely nine. I decided to choose the faint possibility of life and went to my parents. My parents took me to our physician, my father running the three hundred yards with his very fat body behind the children's carriage of my youngest brother, me in it and about fifty cotton diapers to catch all the blood in. Kitchen floor and living room floor were covered with about a bucket of blood (I mean a large bucket). It was not certain by any means that our physician would be at home, as it was the eve before Christmass and he might have been out of town, visiting relatives. He was at home and took a look. He phoned the hospital. We went outside and he opened his garage, removed the dust cover from his sleek Citroen and slowly manoeuvred the car out off the garage. We got in, me lying on the back bench with my diapers. Excruciatingly slowly he drove through the back streets of the town until we came to the main road. Then he accelerated. I knew that I had only seconds to live. Not at all convinced that there was an afterlife, I decided to keep an open mind and lifted my body and head to take a glance at the velocity meter, just in case anyone on the other side wanted to know how fast the car was going. We were going at 160 km per hour (100 miles) through the center of the town. We arrived at the hospital, and the bleeding was then stopped, of course. The next morning I awoke early, took stock of my condition and functions - and realized that I was dead. So this is my afterlife. In many ways it sucks. In one way I am blessed excessively. Was it worth it? Yes. If I had known beforehand what was to happen, however, I probably would have decided not to choose for life and to have quietly bled to death in the privacy of the lavatory where the problem first manifested. quote: ORIGINAL: Estring I will bet that when you have a life threatening illness, you will be the first in line for the cure. I have a life threatening illness for 32 years. Yes, I would be first in line. No, there is no cure.

Lordandmaster -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 2:29:17 PM)
I think you're misrepresenting the people who have expressed an opinion that doesn't coincide with yours. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen So, there is a fair proportion of posts here which see no problem in taking advantage of organ donation from executed Chinese prisoners.

mnottertail -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 2:34:03 PM)
Look at texas, they just fry the bastards up and stick the ick in the hole......railroading? I think capatalists should take a long, hard look at this. Ron

Rule -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 2:42:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: raiken Look up what happens in the body from taking antibiotics on a biochemical and physiological level and study...you would be amazed. Frankly, I know a lot about biochemistry and physiology, having studied those subjects. However, I have neglected to study the effects of antibiotics on the body. Do you have a reference? I almost never use antibiotics (the only time I used antibiotics was 42 years ago. Wait: I used it once more, in a salve six or ten years ago - it solved the problem and I am still grateful).

LadyEllen -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 2:55:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster I think you're misrepresenting the people who have expressed an opinion that doesn't coincide with yours. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen So, there is a fair proportion of posts here which see no problem in taking advantage of organ donation from executed Chinese prisoners. err........ how exactly? Is there not a fair proportion of views in that direction? is it not allowed to then ask them a further question, having identified that such a view exists? E

UtopianRanger -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 4:26:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster You really think we don't spy on China? Well...we do. Allies aren't necessarily friends. You don't have to love your ally; you don't even have to agree with their basic views and policies. You just have to know how they're going to behave. I think we have a pretty good handle on how China is going to behave (at least as long as the technocrats are in power). They're a hell of a lot more predictable than some of the other allies we've been trying to cultivate recently. I'm thinking Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, some of those basketcase nations in South America--you name it. quote: ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger Then come back after you've read it and tell me if you think China is still possibly an ''Ally'' Is this post your way of refusing to accept an early Christmas present from me? I think our current policy / philosophy with the People's Republic sucks ass. You oughta make your next selection ''Deception'' lol - R

popeye1250 -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 5:25:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen So, there is a fair proportion of posts here which see no problem in taking advantage of organ donation from executed Chinese prisoners. Now lets mix it up with the "Las Vegas cop" thread. Would it be acceptable for the US government to intern illegal immigrants and, lets not say execute them......... but say, take one kidney and one lung from each, for donation to US citizens at no cost? In return for the "donation", the illegal immigrant would be given, say USD 10,000-00, and sent home - enough money to last them a good while in their homelands. Each illegal immigrant would be interned on discovery - those who have not yet made amends for their illegal entry by way of "donation" would go for surgery, those who have made such amends in the past would be shot. Would this be just as acceptable, less acceptable, or more acceptable, to those who see no problem with the Chinese situation? E Lady, the govt. can't even secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws. But they can spend tens of billions of our tax money overseas in wars and foreign aid. How could you expect them to carry out your proposal

LadyEllen -> RE: Transplants in China (9/30/2006 7:13:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popeye1250 quote: ORIGINAL: LadyEllen So, there is a fair proportion of posts here which see no problem in taking advantage of organ donation from executed Chinese prisoners. Now lets mix it up with the "Las Vegas cop" thread. Would it be acceptable for the US government to intern illegal immigrants and, lets not say execute them......... but say, take one kidney and one lung from each, for donation to US citizens at no cost? In return for the "donation", the illegal immigrant would be given, say USD 10,000-00, and sent home - enough money to last them a good while in their homelands. Each illegal immigrant would be interned on discovery - those who have not yet made amends for their illegal entry by way of "donation" would go for surgery, those who have made such amends in the past would be shot. Would this be just as acceptable, less acceptable, or more acceptable, to those who see no problem with the Chinese situation? E Lady, the govt. can't even secure our borders and enforce our immigration laws. But they can spend tens of billions of our tax money overseas in wars and foreign aid. How could you expect them to carry out your proposal Wow - you should run for government. Such well executed manoeuvres to dodge difficult questions, along with a return question to change the subject! Lets assume they could in some hypothetical instance, enforce such a proposal, and pose the same question again. E

MisPandora -> RE: Transplants in China (10/1/2006 1:14:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: ORIGINAL: MisPandora quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo quote: ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ As for the issue of body parts, my ex husband was a buyer at a biomed firm. He brought home a "parts list" one day. Any organ you can think of, from any "person type" - male, female, adult, child, infant - you name it. Up for sale. From all sorts of countries. Russia was a big one, actually. These parts were purchased for cloning and other labratory experiements. No clue how they had been come up for sale. It was really creepy to actually read a price list for a toddler's organs. This stuff is happening all over, folks. Not just in China, not just to save initial illnesses. But how were they acquired? Legitimately? In the US, people can donate towards "research and education" through organizations like the National Disease Resource Interchange. http://www.ndriresource.org/ There's hundreds of these organizations....and they supply researchers with organs, tissues, and cells for them to do their work. They also provide biomed companies with "demo parts" -- say, a leg to be preserved to demonstrate a new orthopedic device a company is marketing. Yes, Im well aware of this, as I am a willing consenting donor when my death occurs. Adoption is wonderful and legal too when done legitimately. But that doesnt mean that black market babies should be bred and sold. I think you may have missed the current of the conversation. No one was putting down legitmate organ donation. This was about the killing, selling and exploiting of human beings in order to rape them of their body parts so that others may live. The fact that there is legitimate organ donation happening every day, does not mean that these horrors being discussed here are untrue or should not be discussed. I didn't miss the point of the conversation at all, marie. You're quoting an offshoot conversation about someone inquiring about where research organs are acquired in the US......

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