RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer?

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 12:24:24 AM

WhipTheHip

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> Delusion is thinking you can change everything - or anything - all at once.

Selfish rationalization makes "perfection" the enemy
of "good" and "better."

Just because we can't achieve perfection all at once
is no reason not to try our best to make the world a
little better place over the course of our lives.

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/28/2006 12:46:54 AM >

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 12:39:32 AM

WhipTheHip

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gentlethistle
...and the subsiduary question is...does that need to rescue, protect, mould, rebuild (or wherever that rescuing urge goes) just indirectly lead to more 'broken' people to fix? If I can rely on someone to ride in on that charger to rescue me, to sort it all out...then don't I just become more incapable of my own defense?
Laura

Absolutely! One should never call the police when they need help, that just makes you more incapable of your defense. The more help you give people, the more "broken" they become. When people need help, the best thing you can do is ignore them. Benign neglect. Never throw a life preserver to someone who is figuratively drowning. Drowning builds character. What doesn't destroy you makes you stronger. You should never think that what doesn't make people stronger, destroys them. This is especially true with people who are sensitive, fragile, and vulnerable. The less you protect them, the stronger they become. People never emotionally fall apart no matter how much pressure you put on them.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 12:40:36 AM

Frank01

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That's nice, I wish you well.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 12:52:44 AM

reticence

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Michael

I believe the quote in your tag line is by Albert Einstein, not Calvin. I could be wrong, but i don't think so ,,

be well

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 1:22:58 AM

WhipTheHip

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quote:

ORIGINAL: reticence
Michael I believe the quote in your tag line is by Albert Einstein, not Calvin. I could be wrong, but i don't think so ,,be well

You are right! In fact, there is someone on Collarme.com with the exact same quote in their tag line, and they correctly attribute it to Einstein. In fact, I first discovered the quote from that person's tag line. I incorrectly but deliberately attribute it to Calvin, because it sounds like something Calvin would say. Out of Calvin's mouth it has a completely different meaning then the one Einstein gave to it. In my opinion, it gives it a clever twist, and delicious irony.

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/28/2006 1:26:04 AM >

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 1:28:43 AM

reticence

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Michael

Not being clever or very quick witted, i guess i missed the "twist" (smile) It is way too early in the morning to muster up a lot of violent opposition, despite the mediocrity of my mind..

be well

< Message edited by reticence -- 9/28/2006 1:29:47 AM >

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 2:13:48 AM

WhipTheHip

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I answer these questions with respect to me.

Characteristics of Co-Dependent People Are:

> An exaggerated sense of responsibility for the actions of others.

Mostly false, with a little truth. I don't believe I am responsible
for anyone's actions. But I do think if I was a better person,
I could get other people to behave better by being a better
example, and helping people understand how much their
actions increase or decrease human and animal suffering.

> A tendency to confuse love and pity, with the tendency to
> “love” people they can pity and rescue.

False. I don't "pity" anyone.

> A tendency to do more than their share, all of the time.

False. I think subs do more than their fair share.
I rather be a Dom, than a sub. But wouldn't mind
a relationship with each party doing their fair share.
If I could do more than my fair share I would, but
I can't.

> A tendency to become hurt when people don’t recognize their efforts.

I don't know how to answer this one. I don't become hurt when others
don't recognize my efforts on their behalf, but I do become disappointed.
I have yet to meet a person who liked unappreciative people. If you
help someone, you like your efforts on their behalf to be appreciated.
I help people whether or not my efforts are appreciated because I believe
it is the right thing to do. But it is sure nice when people appreciate
the help I give them. Who likes to be unappreciated?   This is why
the DSM-IV-TR needs a lot of reworking.

> An unhealthy dependence on relationships. The co-dependent will do
> anything to hold on to a relationship; to avoid the feeling of abandonment.

I am dependant on relationships. I wouldn't characterize my
dependance as unhealthy. I will do a lot to hold on to a
relationship, but not "anything." I don't know anyone willing
to do ANYTHING to hang onto a relationship.   And people not
willing to do a lot to hang onto a relationship are not very
committed to that relationship.    About feelings of
"abandonment," I don't know. I think that would be the
least of it.

> An extreme need for approval and recognition.

How high is high? How extreme is extreme? Most people
have some need for approval and recognition. I have
some need for approval and recognition. Is this an
EXTREME need? I would say not.

> A sense of guilt when asserting themselves.

No. I make the best leader.

> A compelling need to control others.

I make the best leader precisely because I am not controling.
If a sub had any complaint with me, it is more likely she would
find I am not controling enough, rather than too controling.

> Lack of trust in self and/or others.

I trust myself and others too much.

> Fear of being abandoned or alone.

I don't "fear" being alone. I dislike it.

> Difficulty identifying feelings.

No. I do not even know how this can be possible.

> Rigidity/difficulty adjusting to change.

I don't know. I started out life religious, became
an athiest, became a fundamentalist, then became
an athiest again. I have a dozen professions. And
I've lived in a half-dozen different countries.

> Problems with intimacy/boundaries.

I hope not, but I guess this is something only others
can judge. If I had such a problem, I wouldn't be
aware of it.

> Chronic anger.

I NEVER get angry in real life with people I know. I occassionaly
get mildly angry at strangers.   I often get angry with people
on-line.

> Lying/dishonesty.

I have never told a lie in my life.    Just kidding.
I try to avoid lying because I am not clever enough
to avoid getting caught.   I am not a very good liar.
But what would I say, if I was a liar? Maybe, I would
give the exact same answer.

> Poor communications

I think I am pretty good at communications. So do most
people in real life, though many people on the Internet say
otherwise.

> Difficulty making decisions.

This is partly true.

So, am I codependant? Do I care? No!

Cheers,
Michael

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/28/2006 2:14:52 AM >

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 9:48:59 AM

DoctorDubious

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Greetings All.... both Pro and Contra-rescue....

It's my opinion and experience
that "rescuing" can, and often is done in unhealthy ways.

But, of course, it could also be affirming and healthy, in certain contexts.

BDSM folk,
more than most any other "community"
should be able to appreciate
that almost any behaviour and activity...
(whipping, slapping, marking, burning, hulimiation.... etc etc etc etc etc...
etc...etc....e
can be done in evil "bad" ways,
but also in powerfully loving ways.

DD

PS.... have you noticed how at least 90%
of all the longer threads here on collarme
are essentially disputes
about the various meanings of words....

PSS... Clinton said it best
"... that depends on what the meaning of 'is' is.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

Post #: 48

RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 9:54:12 AM

Frank01

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There is an almost infinite distance between helping someone to help themselves-

And the arrogant frame of mind that considers itself to be salvation.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 10:02:07 AM

Amaros

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> Delusion is thinking you can change everything - or anything - all at once.

Selfish rationalization makes "perfection" the enemy
of "good" and "better."

Just because we can't achieve perfection all at once
is no reason not to try our best to make the world a
little better place over the course of our lives.

I am not advocating a Panglossian optimism, I think you can make the world a better place bit by bit, and by better, I don't neccessarily mean in a sappy, naive way, but in ways that make your life better.

Giving somebody a break in heavy traffic for example, tends to spread I've noticed, and face it, aggressive driving can save you a minute or two at the most, usually seconds at best - by the same token, aggressive driving also spreads, and the person you cut off will cut off another, etc., till eventually, it's get back around to you, perhaps at an inconvenient moment.

End result? Buncha pissed off people with bad attitudes, all for getting to that Red light three seconds sooner.

(in reply to WhipTheHip)

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/28/2006 10:36:36 AM

Dnomyar

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DoctorDubious. You have to realize the people on here with college educations need to justify them. Hence my college word is better than your high school word. To many on here write an essay when a simple paragraph will do. Get to the point people don't drone on and on.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/29/2006 4:52:04 AM

WhipTheHip

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Joined: 7/31/2006
Status: offline

Hi there,

     I apologize for not making myself clear.    I didn't mean to say
being dominant or submissive are disabilities.   I meant to say
some people do need more attention and love than others.
Some people are more needy, some are less needy. Some
need more reassurance, some need less. Some people
need help finding their keys, some people need help doing
whatever they are doing, some people need extra love because
they were mistreated in past, like abused dogs need extra
love and special treatment.   Some people are bi-polar,
some suffer depression, some people have a craving
to cut themselves.

I am patient and accepting of people with mental health
issues.   I want to love someone who has been mistreated,
just like I want to show an abused dog extra love. I don't
how the word "rescue" entered the discussion. Now, that
I think about it, it didn't come from me. I do rescue animals
and people, and help them escape aweful circumtances,
but don't seek to rescue partners. I don't feel superior
to partners, and don't see myself in a position to rescue
them. I do believe in mutual support and mutual dependancy.
I am not embarrassed to say that I need others. I do feel
extra love and compassion for people who have been hurt.
I do feel extra love for people who are submissve because
they have been beaten down as opposed to people who
naturally submissive.

I tend to have more patience with people's shortcomings.
I am willing to work with people, others don't have time
for.

Cheers,
Michael

< Message edited by WhipTheHip -- 9/29/2006 4:57:19 AM >

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 4:15:02 PM

velvetears

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Joined: 6/19/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer?

Good question. Why do some feel an overwhelming NEED
to be a Dom?

i could be wrong, i have not read the whole thread, but it appears you equate being a dom with being a rescuer. Perhaps you are a dom who likes rescuing, but that doesn't mean all who are rescuers are doms or all who are doms are rescuers. This would assume all subs need some kind of "help or rescuing", i don't believe this to be true at all. Some subs might need help or rescuing, just like would be apparent in the general population of ALL people.

Personally i think if you are in so much emotional/mental/physical turmoil or trouble that you need rescuing - you need a lot more then a dom to fix you. They aren't super hero action figures, they are men who have a need to dominate. Why does this equate with their somehow being equipped to recue anybody for that matter??

< Message edited by velvetears -- 9/30/2006 4:17:18 PM >

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 4:26:04 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: toservez

Sorry if this is too flamey and I am taking this question as life in general and not totally about M/s.

For the most part when done within reason and with proper perspective and boundaries then a person who enjoys rescuing people is a nice person who it is just part of their personality. They are the people who are always taking in stray animals, doing favors for people outside of close friends and family and just enjoy sharing their wisdom with others.

For people who truly need to see someone and want to rescue, save and/or change them often that is just a sign of low self esteem on their end. They treat this problem by drugging themsevles with a unconscious sense of superiority. Who else but the great me can help this lowly person. They are looking for hero worship. They are looking to convert the people to their views and how they think life should be so it justifies their choices. I see a high percentage of this in social workers where it is almost not really about who they are looking out for but that they are great because they are the ones looking out for them.

Again I do not mean all people who like to rescue people have low self esteem. I am just saying that there is a very big difference in enjoying helping someone or something and needing to think or have others think that makes you nicer or better then other people.

For M/s, a dominant wanting/enjoying helping their submissive become all that they can be is truly special. A dominant thinking without them the person would be hopeless or loss has maybe more issues then their perceived rescue.

very well stated... and definitely a likely reason is some situations... and as you said not all situations

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 4:27:10 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: justheather

Im just curious as to what happens to the relationship once the person does not "need help" any more.

excellent question!

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An Optimal relationship is achieved when the individuals do what is best for themselves and their relationship.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 4:46:09 PM

missturbation

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I'm going to apologise first as i havent read all the responses to this thread so i may be repeating something someone else has asked here.
I'm a little worried by this thread.
Actually, it is not an overwhelming need, but I am attracted
to people who need help. I like feeling needed, I like being
hero.
This implies to me that you seek relationships with vulnerable people 'those in need of rescue'. Now forgive me for this but most people who seek this type of relationship are some kind of predator. Maybe its just the way you come across in what you say but i find it a little scarey.

Doms, subs, and sundry sourpusses lend me your ear,

> a person who enjoys rescuing people is a nice person who it is just part of their personality.
> They are the people who are always taking in stray animals, doing favors for people outside
> of close friends and family and just enjoy sharing their wisdom with others.
I read this kind of thing in my pyscho thriller books lol.

I don't brag about what I do.
You are here and now.

The more help you give people, the more "broken" they become.
You know in some cases thats true, you cant rescue someone all the time, they need to stand on their own two feet at some point.

I want to love someone who has been mistreated,
just like I want to show an abused dog extra love.
It's just all starting to sound a little creepy.

Just my opinion is all.

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 5:15:55 PM

velvetears

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I don't how the word "rescue" entered the discussion. Now, that I think about it, it didn't come from me.

Huh?? This whole thread was about the word rescue and it most certainly did come from you as you were the thread starter!
Your words-----> > Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Rescuer?

I do feel extra love for people who are submissve because they have been beaten down as opposed to people who naturally submissive.

WOW, what a loaded statement that is!! So, anyone who isn't a "natural" submissive is submissive because they were beaten down!?!?! And just what is a "natural" submissive and how do you differentiate the two when you meet them?

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 5:19:02 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

Sometimes people fall down and go "boom", that is the way life goes.

I think it is not just the way life goes.

People who fall down and go "boom" and are then forced or allowed to solve the problem on their own at an early age, grow up to be adults that are able to fall down and go "boom," and then pick themselves up againd and move on.

In my experience, those who are mollycoddled and protected from reality seldom learn how to get back up, dust themselves off, and get back on the horse, for example.

But that is just me, and I could be wrong, but there ya go.

Sinergy

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 5:34:16 PM

Kashan

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I was a rescuer for a long time. I have recently stopped, and broken tiews with those who are constantly victims of their circumstances, but I am having difficulty figuring out how to relate to people I am not helping or being helped by. Like a healthy relationship where we meet as two whole people. I just don't really know how to be open without that needy connection...BUT I'm learning!!! I'm trying and screwing up and making some headway sometimes. Someday I'll get it right!
I was just talking with an exgirlfriend who said her sister called hysterical and couldn't handle her current "crisis." Well, maybe that's becasue she has always had someone there to handle it for her. If no one is available, there will be no one to cry to and she'll have to buck up and cope....won't she?

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RE: Why do you feel the overwhelming NEED to be the Res... - 9/30/2006 5:41:22 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

> There is an aspect to the whole "Rescuer" thing
> which seems to imply that the rescuer feels the
> person is unable to rescue or fix themself.

Remind me the next time you are drowning in the middle of ocean not to throw you a life-preserver, or take you aboard my boat.

Hello A/all,

I will keep that in mind.

While I could blather on endlessly about all the altruistic things I do, my philosophical underpinnings are fairly deeply rooted in Zen, Taoism, and some elements of Buddhism.

Zen teaches that the only thing which matters is now. Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. In that sense, I really do not have much emotional attachment to the idea that I will be remembered as a great person. I have changed the lives of more than a thousand women, men, and children on a very basic level. Do I care if I get my star on the Walk of Fame? No. I am a private person and I follow my own muse. If people remember me fondly, I wish them well. If they think I am a dickhead, I also wish them well. My self-image is not predicated on what other people think of me.

Taoism teaches that the way of spiritual growth is in a direction away from conflict, because both sides of a conflict are not oppositional, they are complementary. Neither side could exist without it's compliment. I love posting on message boards and engaging in philosophical debate not because I want to win or convince other people that I am right. I do it because I want to learn how other people view the world.

I learned from Buddhism that there is no such thing as altruism. Altruism is a philosophy of doing nice things predicated on the idea that one exists in a world of sorrow and people and all that, and one does things to make it better. Now please pay attention to this part: During the Vietnam War, many Buddhist monks self-immolated in protest of the war, which was one of the major factors leading to the United States losing the support of the war by the population. This self-immolation is considered by many (myself included) to be one of the primary causative factors which forced the Government of the United States to bring our soldiers home from Indo-China.

Why would the followers of a religion that teaches detachment from and insists that the world lacks reality, do something that is both profoundly altruistic, as well as personally self-destructive, when their religion teaches that the only thing that matters exists between one's ears?

It is done because it makes the person performing the altruistic wants to do them and feels happy and/or fulfilled doing them. What these philosophies have left me with is a sense of freedom and joy to be able to go do nice things and be a good person. I can do the things I have to do simply because I know they are the right thing to do. Even more important, these desires are not tied up in whether other people think I am doing nice things or being a good person.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy

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Post #: 60

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