RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans

RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (Full Version)

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Rule -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:11:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Rice is indeed an excellent school Where did you read that I said that Rice is not an excellent school? quote: ORIGINAL: Level you might want to double-check your "investigation". You do not know what my investigation was about. That ignorance disqualifies you as someone entitled to criticize my investigation. Say, Level, are you and caitlyn identical?

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:26:11 AM)
No matter the quality of an educational institution, most history is taught with a slant one way or another, and it's highly popular right now to make Middle Eastern countries The Enemy. Even if not, general history courses (world history, western civ.) are likely to merely touch on the most basic of issues. More focused history courses in the subject area could be biased one direction or another, but it is clear from the remarks made by Caitlin earlier that she has not taken one of these anyway. Middle Eastern history just over the last century is incredibly tangled and detailed, and there are no simple answers to the extremely simple (minded) questions she posed when she first posted on this thread. If she had taken the time to study not only American foreign policies, but what those policies might mean to the people of those foreign countries in terms of pain and suffering and human dignity, it would be readily apparent to her, and anyone else, why America (the government at least) is hated, not only by Middle Easterners, but most of the third world. It is interesting too that MOST Middle Easterners are able to make the differentiation between the American government and policies, and American people at large. They can hate our government, yet be friendly and hospitable to Americans, welcoming them into their homes with real friendship. I don't mean in Iraq, of course, since we are slaughtering them. It's sad that so many Americans cannot make that same distinction between a huge, friendly cultured people, and a few radical factions of extremists who use Islam as a basis for their rhetoric... and btw, ANY religion can be used for political purposes and to meet political agendas... remember the Inquisition? Christianity has its fair share of terrorists too. Here's the dictionary definition of terrorism: The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons. Hmmm.... looks like George Bush, besides being the First Idiot, is a terrorist as well. This is no surprise. <edited to avoid being sent wily-nily off to Gitmo for criticism since we no longer have rights of free speech in America>

Level -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:35:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Level Rice is indeed an excellent school Where did you read that I said that Rice is not an excellent school? quote: ORIGINAL: Level you might want to double-check your "investigation". You do not know what my investigation was about. That ignorance disqualifies you as someone entitled to criticize my investigation. Say, Level, are you and caitlyn identical? No, she is female, blonde, and cute, while I am not. You alluded to her statement of attending Rice as "explaining" some of her "ignorance"; or did you mean that in reference to her saying Rice was not "conservative"? Either way, it certainly sounds as if a swipe at Rice was being taken. And yes, I am ignorant..... we all are, in many ways. Aren't we?

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:36:19 AM)
No, you didn't say it wasn't excellent; but you said that her attending Rice accounted for her ignorance, and followed that up with a statement that you had investigated it; therefore, that impression was made by insinuation. I too got that impression. To be honest, you did not, aside from mentioning some suicide(s?), give any reasoning for why you felt poorly about Rice U. Which is hardly a commentary on their academic standing. Therefore, you cannot blame others for their scepticism. Rice certainly does not seem to have helped Caitlin gain any maturity... but then, what college really does? quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: Level Rice is indeed an excellent school Where did you read that I said that Rice is not an excellent school? quote: ORIGINAL: Level you might want to double-check your "investigation". You do not know what my investigation was about. That ignorance disqualifies you as someone entitled to criticize my investigation. Say, Level, are you and caitlyn identical?

caitlyn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:43:38 AM)
Who needs Rice University, when we have Google! [8\|]

Level -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:45:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn Who needs Rice University, when we have Google! [8\|] Exactly, and we know everything online is true, right? [:D]

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:49:33 AM)
Now that's a scary proposition, LOL! quote: ORIGINAL: Level Exactly, and we know everything online is true, right? [:D]

caitlyn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:53:02 AM)
Maybe Google could help me with my maturity. You haven't seen me call anyone stupid, or question anyone's eductaion, or pick on someone that committed suicide, or make accusations. I'm lacking in all those fine qualities of maturity. [;)]

Rule -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:55:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level did you mean that in reference to her saying Rice was not "conservative"? No. quote: ORIGINAL: Level it certainly sounds as if a swipe at Rice was being taken. It was. quote: ORIGINAL: Level And yes, I am ignorant..... we all are, in many ways. Aren't we? Undoubtedly.

bills944 -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:56:39 AM)
This is "The Power of Nighmares"...helpful in understanding the neocons. BBC 3 pt. documentary: http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=%22the+power+of+nightmares%22&so=0

Level -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:56:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn Now that's a scary proposition, LOL! quote: ORIGINAL: Level Exactly, and we know everything online is true, right? [:D] Yes it is [:D]. I try very hard to use as many tools as I can to inform myself, and I've discovered that: 1- I don't trust any source 100% 2- I know some things to be true 3- I think I know some other things are true 4- I know that what I'm unsure of is far vaster than what I am certain of

Level -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 5:59:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn Maybe Google could help me with my maturity. You haven't seen me call anyone stupid, or question anyone's eductaion, or pick on someone that committed suicide, or make accusations. I'm lacking in all those fine qualities of maturity. [;)] Yes, young lady, you have a looooong ways to go, and you should be ashamed of your civility. [8\|]

Rule -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:11:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn No, you didn't say it wasn't excellent; but you said that her attending Rice accounted for her ignorance, and followed that up with a statement that you had investigated it; therefore, that impression was made by insinuation. I too got that impression. People are always reading between the lines and jumping to conclusions in utter disregard of the Law of Murphy while doing so. I suspect that when someone makes the statement: "The sky is blue", that another will show up and say: "I read between the lines and actually you implied that the sky is purple and as that is pertinently not true all of your other statements are not credible either". quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn To be honest, you did not, aside from mentioning some suicide(s?), give any reasoning for why you felt poorly about Rice U. Quite. Intentionally. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn Which is hardly a commentary on their academic standing. Quite. I did not comment on their academic standing. I commented on their indoctrination course of their sanctioned version of history. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn Therefore, you cannot blame others for their scepticism. I applaud scepticism. Unfortunately, most people are not sceptical at all, but rather gullible.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:16:20 AM)
One would hope that a mature person, at least, coming into a thread where they are woefully ignorant of the topic under discussion, would state their lack of knowledge of the topic and asked to be instructed by both sides... rather than taking a half-informed (even worse than not informed at all!) stance and posing stupid questions that merely showcase your complete ignorance of what is being discussed. Notice, please, that I did not call YOU stupid. I called your questions stupid, and they were. It is NOT the same thing; nor is ignorance of a subject a BAD thing, unless someone pretends to know what they are talking about when they don't. The only objection I have to your position (poorly stated) on the subject is that it is uninformed. I know plenty of people with completely opposite views to my own, and we respect each other's opinions and are able to debate them without (much) heat... well, most of the time <laugh> But they know what they are talking about, and so do I. We just see it differently, draw different conclusions. We have discussions and debates.... not accusations and questions stemming from a nonsequitur base to hide abysmal ignorance on the subject at hand.

caitlyn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:17:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Level Yes it is [:D]. I try very hard to use as many tools as I can to inform myself, and I've discovered that: 1- I don't trust any source 100% 2- I know some things to be true 3- I think I know some other things are true 4- I know that what I'm unsure of is far vaster than what I am certain of A high precentage of internet research uses reciprocal or triangular verification. It is useful, when backed by more conventional sources, even if those sources are taken off the intenet (Library of Congress, CBO, etc ...) In the interest of showing more maturity, I'm actually not a natural blonde. [;)] Off to church and the hospital ... peace.

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:21:31 AM)
Yes, but I would have liked you to have expounded upon that. I mean... you can hardly expect us to take you on your word when you give us no reasoning for saying they are indoctrinating (thereby implying an agenda). I'd honestly like to hear on what you base this judgement; you notice I'm not saying you are wrong (or right), because I don't know anything about Rice U one way or another. I'd like to hear what you found. Unless you're afraid of being kidnapped by the Feds and taken off to Gitmo, never to be heard of again, in which case I TOTALLY understand. We have no rights of free speech anymore. quote: ORIGINAL: Rule quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn To be honest, you did not, aside from mentioning some suicide(s?), give any reasoning for why you felt poorly about Rice U. Quite. Intentionally. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn Which is hardly a commentary on their academic standing. Quite. I did not comment on their academic standing. I commented on their indoctrination course of their sanctioned version of history.

Level -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:24:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn In the interest of showing more maturity, I'm actually not a natural blonde. [;)] Off to church and the hospital ... peace. But you are quite cute [X(]. I hope your morning goes well, caitlyn.

caitlyn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:26:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn One would hope that a mature person, at least, coming into a thread where they are woefully ignorant of the topic under discussion, would state their lack of knowledge of the topic and asked to be instructed by both sides... rather than taking a half-informed (even worse than not informed at all!) stance and posing stupid questions that merely showcase your complete ignorance of what is being discussed. I asked for your sources several times. You responded that you didn't have the time. You do seem to have time to insult me now.

NorthernGent -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 6:56:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent caitlyn, you can pick at the bones until the cows come home but the meat of what Ladymorgynn is saying is that the US Government was all over Iraq when it suited and when it doesn't suit they're bombing the place and it is bang on. That was not what she said at all. She made some very specific points. It is not picking nits to question these statements, especially when you consider that the first line of my post was: "As a person that is undecided on this issue, I can only say that these vast statements of conjecture, after a call to "get an education", does your position no good at all." I can't say this any more clearly. We have been debating this on this forum for months now, and one thing I have noticed is that very few (but some) people on either side of it have anything substantial to back what they say. Ask for proof, and they send you a youTube of some screaming idiot, or a quote from "Rush" ... and follow that up with the obligatory, "educate yourself", "read history", "you are closed minded." So, I say I'm undecided ... which from my point of view, given the lack of facts presented by either side, is the ONLY place a reasonable person can be on this issue ... and the conservatives accuse me of being a liberal, and the liberals accuse me of being a schill for the administration. I am forming one conclusion. Most older people are fucking insane. [;)][;)] You're not far wrong but, then again, if you had grown up under a Thatcher Government you'd be insane too. Hang on a minute here, you've grown up under a Bush Government so you must be completely doolally. Anyway, this evidence you are yet to see - in relation to what?

LadyMorgynn -> RE: Iraqis favor attacks on Americans (10/1/2006 7:02:44 AM)
If someone comes to me asking for a different viewpoint than what they hear from the official line propagated in the media, I am more than happy to talk with them. I have neither the time nor the inclination to educate someone who so clearly is not interested in listening. It's not even possible to have a rational discussion since you don't have the information you need to hold such discourse on this particular subject, whatever your other scholastic achievements may be. You didn't REALLY want me to name my sources. You already know it all, which was quite clear by the tone of your questions. So I didn't feel any particular need to go comb through my bookshelves and page through tomes to give you references which you would respond to with canned rhetoric. Perhaps a little background would be in order, I am a history major, and my minor was in Middle Eastern history, I have lived in the Middle East (Egypt and Saudi Arabia) both as an exchange student through the University of California and under contract at a hospital. I lived amongst the populace and spoke Arabic fluently and read the Qur'an... in Arabic (NO, I am not Muslim, far from it; I am pagan). I am an alumni of the American University in Cairo and have maintained my Middle Eastern contacts and continued my studies unofficially (but extensively) over the last 25+ years. I have no problem talking about Middle Eastern affairs to those who are sincerely interested and really want to hear. In fact, I LOVE doing so. If there is EVER to be peace in the middle east, it will not be from war and aggression, but from the PEOPLE learning to understand each other. And that means us as well as them. quote: ORIGINAL: caitlyn quote: ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn One would hope that a mature person, at least, coming into a thread where they are woefully ignorant of the topic under discussion, would state their lack of knowledge of the topic and asked to be instructed by both sides... rather than taking a half-informed (even worse than not informed at all!) stance and posing stupid questions that merely showcase your complete ignorance of what is being discussed. I asked for your sources several times. You responded that you didn't have the time. You do seem to have time to insult me now.

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