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The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 6:44:46 AM

WetHotGoddess

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Joined: 5/18/2006
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My mother used to say that when someone says something that bothers you, it is because you believe what they said is true. For example, if someone calls you a groundhog, you will dismiss it because you know you are not a groundhog. But if someone says something to you that deep down you know is the truth, it will bother you and you will feel the need to defend yourself.

My point is that there are a great number of people who endlessly defend their opinions and positions. Why? Does the truth need defense? OR- is it because they have no respect or tolerance of other opinions?

The truth hurts. That is why there are so many who repeat the same opinion- like a mantra- over and over.. They think by repeating it, it will somehow erase the facts that they want to ignore. There are many here who use the "block" button so they will not have to acknowledge those who strike that truth chord.

Think about it. If you wear a diaper, you may not really be submissive. If you are ugly and married, and a whiner, why should anyone want to top you for free? What bothers you the most- and why? Intolerence bothers me.

The truth needs no defense.

_____________________________

ARIEL

Your opinion is very important to us. Please hold for the next available representative.

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Post #: 1

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 6:57:02 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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I do this because I was taught to. If other people's opinions truly threatened me I would pretend they did not exist. I do not run from other people or their opinions, and I will defend my own opinions. I will often either learn more about why I hold my opinion by doing so, or I will change my opinion, or I may get frustrated with the person I am debating because they are not defending their position in a productive way.,.. threatened? Well I have been threatened a time or two, but not usually.

The truth often needs defense... and when I look at the straits our country is in that becomes more and more apparent. Obfuscation done by our media is prevalent in this country.

About the other things you think are truths? Like this for example

quote:

If you are ugly and married, and a whiner, why should anyone want to top you for free?

Do not give up hope! You may find someone that is willing to top you for free when they take pity on you... I wish you Godspeed!

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 2

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:10:14 AM

LotusSong

Posts: 6334
Joined: 7/2/2006
From: Domme Emeritus
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One of my favorite sayings is:

"Live never to be ashamed if anything you do or say is published around the world- even if what is published is not true".- "Illusions" by Richard Bach

_____________________________

Life Lesson #1

I'm not your type.
I'm not inflatable.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 3

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:14:48 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

Even if we all agreed on what the facts of a matter were - we'd still argue endlessly over what they mean and what should be done about it.

E

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to LotusSong)

Post #: 4

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:18:48 AM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess

My point is that there are a great number of people who endlessly defend their opinions and positions. Why? Does the truth need defense?

yes the truth needs a defense. They endlessly defend their opinions and positions in the hopes of educating others and changing their minds.

The logic of your argument is flawed.

'We hold these truths to be self-evident;
This famous line of the Declaration was originally: We hold these truths to be sacred and undeniable;
Jefferson changed sacred and undeniable to self-evident during the writing of his Rough Draft of the Declaration"

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 5

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:27:23 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
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Truth doesn't need defending. Which is why I rarely read a post after I've posted to one. I put my opinion out there which usually is based on fact or real life experience. If anyone chooses to read it they do. If not, their loss not mine. I don't need to continue saying it over and over to deaf ears. It is counter productive and I have better things to do with my time.

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 6

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:28:11 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
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I do not think that every time someone gets upset about something is because something inside them fears or knows that it is the truth. Many times people just do not like to be wrong and more importantly do not like others thinking they are wrong. Throw in the Internet variable and lookout. At the same time though look throughout your day and see people who refuse to admit to being wrong even when painted into a corner. Family, friends, yourself, and President Bush all do it to a certain degree. Personally, I find someone who can admit to being wrong fairly quickly in a discussion to be a great quality.

When it is pointed at tangible personal things then that just makes thing more emotionally charged. It is simple human nature to justify personal actions or qualities that others might question. Human beings do not want to be told that something is just not probably going to happen because of them. It has to be because of someone else. It is the 60 year old preaching age means nothing when hitting on a a person in their 20's but they would never had gone out with some one 60 when they were in their 20's, 30's, 40's and 50's. It is a parent refusing to believe their teenage son all 5'6" cannot get that basketball scholarship to a big university because the high school coach will not play him.

In the end truth is often relative. I am often amused when I read in profiles and messages people who call themselves honest and intelligent as I wonder who does not think of themselves as being honest or intelligent and who would ever write I am dumb and there is no way you can trust me. If someone called you dumb would you not deny that but if the person persisitently and others told you that you were dumb, would that make it true or the people telling you are all certified geniuses?

The Internet is what it is and people need to accept the limitations. You can write and do what you want on the Internet without worry about any significant reprocussions. You do not have to work with the person or attend the same social functions so common social graces are dumped.

The question when dealing with these situations on the Internet is who is worse the people who act badly or the people who spend too much time being affected by electectronic bits of the people who acted badly in their opinion?

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 7

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:31:11 AM

StrongButKind

Posts: 136
Joined: 10/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kisshou

quote:

ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess

My point is that there are a great number of people who endlessly defend their opinions and positions. Why? Does the truth need defense?

yes the truth needs a defense. They endlessly defend their opinions and positions in the hopes of educating others and changing their minds.

The logic of your argument is flawed.

Absolutely. For many things, truth is in much doubt. Look at the debates on topics at Wikipedia -- there is certainly no agreement on truth on many things. Science is built on constantly doubting itself and inviting criticism and revision.

(in reply to kisshou)

Post #: 8

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:35:00 AM

meatcleaver

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Joined: 3/13/2006
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It's just a matter of testing your opinions against other people's. Since truth is subjective, there is no fixed position to take but gauge it through argument, observation, experience and information.

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 9

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:36:06 AM

juliaoceania

Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline

I think she got her sayings confused,

Which is to say she meant "Lies need other lies to support them, but the truth stands alone".. there can be "truth" in that.

The rest of her post is just a bitch about ugly people and fat people.. which she often insults people based upon the way they look and yet refuses to post pictures of herself. For all we know she could be a 90 year old Nigerian man...Her post was designed to irritate people with "her truths"

My truth is this... beauty is only skin deep, but rotten is to the core

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to StrongButKind)

Post #: 10

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:38:17 AM

StrongButKind

Posts: 136
Joined: 10/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

Truth doesn't need defending. Which is why I rarely read a post after I've posted to one. I put my opinion out there which usually is based on fact or real life experience. If anyone chooses to read it they do. If not, their loss not mine. I don't need to continue saying it over and over to deaf ears. It is counter productive and I have better things to do with my time.

Am I understanding you correctly that your position is to post your opinion for others to read and hopefully learn from, but that you see no reason to read their opinions and learn from them? You aren't saying you don't post multiple times -- which would seem consistent with your thesis, but that you don't even read the responses. That seems remarkably arrogant. Am I misunderstanding?

Then again, I suppose you won't read this.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 11

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:40:04 AM

toservez

Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do this because I was taught to. If other people's opinions truly threatened me I would pretend they did not exist. I do not run from other people or their opinions, and I will defend my own opinions. I will often either learn more about why I hold my opinion by doing so, or I will change my opinion, or I may get frustrated with the person I am debating because they are not defending their position in a productive way.,.. threatened? Well I have been threatened a time or two, but not usually.

Defending your opinions and thoughts is noble, healthy and important and I admire people who do, I think this was beautifully written. The problem comes in when people stop trying to defend their opinion or just making people understand it but when people truly expect to change a person's mind or judge a person inferior becasue they just do not get it. To me that is when thing become a slippery slope.

There is too much either or and right or wrong in this world.

(in reply to juliaoceania)

Post #: 12

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:41:47 AM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

I read until the list gets too long for me to spend time on. Like this one. I posted less than 5 minutes ago...and look. You guys have posted like 4 posts since then.

By tonight I won't be reading anymore it will be much, much too long.

I do read what other's have to say...though as I just stated I don't when it is too time consuming. Generally by the time a post hits even 3 pages it is long off topic anyway and people are bitching at one another.
That is what is counter productive in my mind.
Does that make better sense?
I hate typing as well so many times I do not explain myself the way I should. I've said many times on these board's if I don't just ask the way you just did.

(in reply to StrongButKind)

Post #: 13

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:44:18 AM

BlkTallFullfig

Posts: 5585
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess
The truth needs no defense.

Yes the truth needs to be defended and put in the glare of light, or in my opinion, it disappears into obscurity while lies and evil flourish...
Look at the current political climate. Human nature is not to be honest at whatever cost, it is to protect and preserve self/self interest at whatever cost, truth be damned.

quote:

The rest of her post is just a bitch about ugly people and fat people.. which she often insults people based upon the way they look and yet refuses to post pictures of herself. For all we know she could be a 90 year old Nigerian man...Her post was designed to irritate people with "her truths"

My truth is this... beauty is only skin deep, but rotten is to the core

LOL, Julia.

M

< Message edited by BlkTallFullfig -- 9/29/2006 7:46:39 AM >

_____________________________

a.k.a. SexyBossyBBW
""Touching was, and still is, and will always be, the true revolution" Nikki Giovanni

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 14

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 7:53:47 AM

StrongButKind

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Joined: 10/15/2004
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Absolutely it does -- thank you for clarifying.

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 15

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 8:29:03 AM

cuddleheart50

Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
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I think men just like to "prove" they are right about something, and they won't stop until they have proven their point.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.

(in reply to StrongButKind)

Post #: 16

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 8:34:33 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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One reason to hash things out is that some days "class is in session." Sometimes you want to see if you can get some racist, xenophobe, right-wing moron to see daylight by trying to help him pull his head out of his ass. Others days, who gives a fuck?

Sometimes it's a nice conversation - you post, someone else posts, you post more, it's funny or absurd, more posting. Talk, talk, talk...

Other times one comes here to sharpen up for other more important tasks or simply to kill time in between other things.

I wish I could say that I was often educated or persuaded to another viewpoint by my intellectual rivals, but most often I learn the most from those having similar opinions to my own. Most people aren't that smart as compared to myself or a few others around here (I know that sounds conceited as hell, BTW), as a consequence others usually don't have that much they can teach me. The rest is philosophical extrapolation - another area in which I imagine I have few rivals. One takes what one knows and tries to apply it to a policy concept so that it advantages the most people. When people disagree with me it's not because I'm wrong, but because my opponents are short-sighted, wildly selfish, greedy assholes. That might be an overly broad generalization, but in the main it is true.

In real life, most people look to me to take a leadership position in relation to them. Fuck, I don't want to lead - but if the alternative is to let some idiot run the show then I will lead. Sometimes, I do the politically expedient thing and let the idiot run things for a while until they reveal themselves to be the idiot that they are - then I replace them and no one argues. As often as possible I try to treat people as equals, whether they want it that way or not.

Sometimes I get impatient.

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to StrongButKind)

Post #: 17

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 8:41:24 AM

Chaingang

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Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuddleheart50
I think men just like to "prove" they are right about something, and they won't stop until they have proven their point.

Look into the books by Deborah Tannen, esp. "You Just Don't Understand":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Tannen

From a Publishers Weekly synopsis:
Georgetown University linguistics professor Tannen here ponders gender-based differences that, she claims, define and distinguish male and female communication. Opening with the rationale that ignoring such differences is more dangerous than blissful, she asserts that for most women conversation is a way of connecting and negotiating. Thus, their parleys tend to center on expressions of and responses to feelings, or what the author labels "rapport-talk" (private conversation). Men, on the other hand, use conversation to achieve or maintain social status; they set out to impart knowledge (termed "report-talk," or public speaking). Calling on her research into the workings of dialogue, Tannen examines the functioning of argument and interruption, and convincingly supports her case for the existence of "genderlect," contending that the better we understand it, the better our chances of bridging the communications gap integral to the battle of the sexes.

-----

Yes, some of us actually know why we do what we do...

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to cuddleheart50)

Post #: 18

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 8:55:17 AM

cuddleheart50

Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

Interesting link Chain, Thank you.

_____________________________

Dance like no one is watching,
Sing like no one is listening.
Love like you've never been hurt
and live like it's heaven on Earth.

(in reply to Chaingang)

Post #: 19

RE: The Truth Hurts? - 9/29/2006 11:51:52 AM

Zensee

Posts: 1564
Joined: 9/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WetHotGoddess

Intolerence bothers me.

The truth needs no defense.

Does your own intolerance bother you or just the intolerance of others?

And by 'truth' do you mean some absolute, irrefutable truth or your personal opinion?
0

_____________________________

"Before enlightenment, chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood and carry water." (proverb)

(in reply to WetHotGoddess)

Post #: 20

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