limits and honesty

limits and honesty (Full Version)

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overhereslave -> limits and honesty (9/30/2006 7:40:37 AM)
Dear Group: I'm quite new to the power exchange lifestyle and have been experimenting (revelling!) for about the past year. Most of my experiences have been with dates, some with friends, and have never gone beyond scening. I realized rather quickly that single, or even multiple, play scenes lack a depth of emotion and connection for which I yearn. A bit ago, I met a man who I think could be potential "it/the one" material. How exciting! Having said that, moving from playing to the potential of a relationship carries with it all wonderful, yet at times bewildering, emotions and turmoil. We've been together just a few months. So! All that background to ask the question which follows: My sub and I were in the midst of a scene which had more of a psychological/mental aspect to it rather than a physical one. [the scene had been written down, and as well talked about on two separate occasions. I will clarify here that "talking about" was more of the kind of "ewww, guess what I'm going to do to you sort...] As we progressed, I realized quickly that he was uncomfortable (again, not physically), but I pushed a bit because I thought he was ok with what was happening. Finally, he stopped the scene. I don't have a problem with that per se. I am upset because I feel he was vague previous to our coming together and the issue could have been avoided had he told Me earlier that he was not ok with it. Of course, added to that was My embarrassment. Here I thought he was having fun and he was very uncomfortable. I'm concerned that I could have so misjudged someone, or maybe what I mean is prejudge because nobody in My previous experience had ever not liked this sort of play. I also worry--what if it had been physical--he could have been hurt! Additionally, I felt a sense of annoyance that he stopped the scene. What was going on didn't seem so horribly bad, and I got this sense of entitlement; if he doesn't want to play My way then I won't play or can't he give a little for Me? a little stamping of the foot goes here However, I like him. I want to see where this could lead. I'm just not sure where to go at this point. he does tend to follow willingly at times and balk stubbornly at others. Is this one of those time? Should I treat it as such? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. [note--I do not have my profile visible at the moment. I realize there are many people who just play on the forums, therefore, I hope that My question reflects My sincerity.] L. Morrigan

MisPandora -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 7:45:08 AM)
Folks who stop my scenes without rational reason, especially when the notions are presented well in advance, are usually quick to leave my service. I don't play the passive-aggressive, topping from the bottom game, no matter how well it's disguised.

Jasmyn -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 8:14:37 AM)
quote: I am upset because I feel he was vague previous to our coming together and the issue could have been avoided had he told Me earlier that he was not ok with it. Hi Morrigan... just to clarify, did he know he wasn't okay with this from previous experience?

marieToo -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 8:37:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: overhereslave Dear Group: I'm quite new to the power exchange lifestyle and have been experimenting (revelling!) for about the past year. Most of my experiences have been with dates, some with friends, and have never gone beyond scening. I realized rather quickly that single, or even multiple, play scenes lack a depth of emotion and connection for which I yearn. A bit ago, I met a man who I think could be potential "it/the one" material. How exciting! Having said that, moving from playing to the potential of a relationship carries with it all wonderful, yet at times bewildering, emotions and turmoil. We've been together just a few months. So! All that background to ask the question which follows: My sub and I were in the midst of a scene which had more of a psychological/mental aspect to it rather than a physical one. [the scene had been written down, and as well talked about on two separate occasions. I will clarify here that "talking about" was more of the kind of "ewww, guess what I'm going to do to you sort...] As we progressed, I realized quickly that he was uncomfortable (again, not physically), but I pushed a bit because I thought he was ok with what was happening. Finally, he stopped the scene. I don't have a problem with that per se. I am upset because I feel he was vague previous to our coming together and the issue could have been avoided had he told Me earlier that he was not ok with it. Of course, added to that was My embarrassment. Here I thought he was having fun and he was very uncomfortable. I'm concerned that I could have so misjudged someone, or maybe what I mean is prejudge because nobody in My previous experience had ever not liked this sort of play. I also worry--what if it had been physical--he could have been hurt! Additionally, I felt a sense of annoyance that he stopped the scene. What was going on didn't seem so horribly bad, and I got this sense of entitlement; if he doesn't want to play My way then I won't play or can't he give a little for Me? a little stamping of the foot goes here However, I like him. I want to see where this could lead. I'm just not sure where to go at this point. he does tend to follow willingly at times and balk stubbornly at others. Is this one of those time? Should I treat it as such? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. [note--I do not have my profile visible at the moment. I realize there are many people who just play on the forums, therefore, I hope that My question reflects My sincerity.] L. Morrigan Morrigan: Talking about doing something is not the same as doing it. I have been in a position where I actually asked for something ( the details are irrelevant), because I thought I wanted to experience it, then I couldnt handle it when it was happening. If he is fairly inexperienced, this may be what happened. Or he may have agreed to it, simply to please you, thinking that he could handle it. I cant get inside his head. But there could be any number of reasons. I would talk to him about it at length to try and ascertain where he was coming from. I would also suggest just listening to your gut instincts. If he is playing the part of the spoiled little bitch who throws down a tantrum because its not going his way, then I think you will come to sense that. Otherwise, please keep in mind that his fears, or apprehensions could possibly be valid. What seems like nothing painful to you, may actually be triggering something in his psyche that makes him pull back. Thats why I would discuss it at length to get to the bottom of it. As in all types of relationship, we have to put in the time and effort in order to determine someone's level of sincerity. Best of luck to you.

overhereslave -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 8:58:14 AM)
Thank you for your question. I, and he, knew this. But I didn't know the extent of his "fear" (uncomfortability? pride?). I'm wondering if he thought he could manage it or wanted to manage it, but in the end could not. Morrigan

bandit25 -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 9:13:41 AM)
I understand that you are somewhat embarassed, but if he was uncomfortable emough to stop the scene, well, then...Maybe it didn't seem so bad to you, but it may have been to him. I'd talk to him about it before I showed him the door.

Misstoyou -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 10:37:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: overhereslave {cutting good stuff} ... As we progressed, I realized quickly that he was uncomfortable (again, not physically), but I pushed a bit because I thought he was ok with what was happening. Finally, he stopped the scene. I don't have a problem with that per se. I am upset because I feel he was vague previous to our coming together and the issue could have been avoided had he told Me earlier that he was not ok with it. Of course, added to that was My embarrassment. Here I thought he was having fun and he was very uncomfortable. I'm concerned that I could have so misjudged someone, or maybe what I mean is prejudge because nobody in My previous experience had ever not liked this sort of play. I also worry--what if it had been physical--he could have been hurt! Additionally, I felt a sense of annoyance that he stopped the scene. What was going on didn't seem so horribly bad, and I got this sense of entitlement; if he doesn't want to play My way then I won't play or can't he give a little for Me? a little stamping of the foot goes here However, I like him. I want to see where this could lead. I'm just not sure where to go at this point. he does tend to follow willingly at times and balk stubbornly at others. Is this one of those time? Should I treat it as such? ... My beloved submissive can be balky at times. He's human. There are things I like that's he's not crazy about. It's interesting because he tells me all the time that I don't need the leash, the implication that he's such a good submissive and will obey without it. And he really is wonderful. But I certainly USE the leash, and other methods, when's he's not quite as amenable as I would like. lol That being said, balky is different from safewording, or whatever other method is used to stop what's going on. Both he and I have been surprised by what he hasn't been able to handle, as well as the things he has. The before hand discussion is good, but I agree with Marie that talking and experiencing are two different things, [As an aside, why I prefer my applicants to have some real time experience.] and why Jazmyn's question as to whether he had done that before is important. I'm human, too. I may get frustrated (and occasionally incredulous) with the result, but I don't punish my submissive when he attempts something for me, regardless of the outcome. I just love the exploration, in addition to the service.

thetammyjo -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 11:21:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marieToo Talking about doing something is not the same as doing it. I have been in a position where I actually asked for something ( the details are irrelevant), because I thought I wanted to experience it, then I couldnt handle it when it was happening. If he is fairly inexperienced, this may be what happened. Or he may have agreed to it, simply to please you, thinking that he could handle it. I cant get inside his head. But there could be any number of reasons. I would talk to him about it at length to try and ascertain where he was coming from. I would also suggest just listening to your gut instincts. If he is playing the part of the spoiled little bitch who throws down a tantrum because its not going his way, then I think you will come to sense that. Otherwise, please keep in mind that his fears, or apprehensions could possibly be valid. What seems like nothing painful to you, may actually be triggering something in his psyche that makes him pull back. Thats why I would discuss it at length to get to the bottom of it. As in all types of relationship, we have to put in the time and effort in order to determine someone's level of sincerity. Best of luck to you. I agree with marieToo here. Talking about something and imaging or fantasizing about something is quite different from experiencing it. This is part of the reasons why we have safewords -- we can't really know how things are going to affect us until they do. Yes, the OP needs to discuss things but she also needs to be prepared for the fact that if you have safewords, you best be able to handle them being used -- at that moment and later on when you are thinking about them. Proper use of safewords should be encouraged and explored. Since the OP reports that the bottoms seemed to be doing ok and didn't safeword until later on I doubt he was using it to control the scene.

MasterFireMaam -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 5:37:09 PM)
This kind of thing can be hard. We often don't know what our landmines are until we step on them. It might be him being passive-aggressive and trying to manipulate things…only time will tell. But, it might really be him uncovering something that’s uncomfortable. The only thing to do is talk about it. If you find as you go that he has many of these reactions, especially to play that you like, you simply might not be a match. No matter what his reasons behind not liking that kind of play, if you find you need it, you might have to look elsewhere to get those needs met. Master Fire

Smythe -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 7:25:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: overhereslave Dear Group: I'm quite new to the power exchange lifestyle ...<snip> I met a man who I think could be potential "it/the one" material. <snipped again> However, I like him. I want to see where this could lead. I'm just not sure where to go at this point. he does tend to follow willingly at times and balk stubbornly at others. Is this one of those time? Should I treat it as such? L. Morrigan LM, I agree with all that has been said about communicating, and that a lot of this is stuff that will get worked out over time, if the two of you turn out to be compatible. I just snipped out a few things that were an alert to me: you are relatively new at this, you really like him a lot, and sometimes he balks stubbornly. I believe that these things taken together are going to make it complicated for you to figure out how, and in what ways to assert your authority/dominance. Are you going to take a hard line and chance losing him? Are you going to have to compromise your desires in order to accommodate his? How are you going to know what to do or not do if such a thing can happen even with advance planning? I have always felt that it is easier in a way to figure some of this stuff out on someone about whom you don't feel too strongly. When you are new, and a valued relationship might be at stake, it can be a rocky ride. But with honest communication, I am sure you'll work it out. Smythe

DiurnalVampire -> RE: limits and honesty (9/30/2006 7:38:29 PM)
My boy has done similiar things. In conversation things were quite intense, but once we were face to face teh reality was a bit of an overlaod for him. We have had to scale things back and move at a far slower pace in order to bring his actual physical comfort level up to his online/phone comfort level. Since you two have only been together for a few months, and you are relatively new to the scene... is it plausible that he is as well? Does he necessarily know what will and wont sit well, and what he can get over to make you happy versus what he just cant? Sometimes, newer subs arent explicit with their limits simply becasue they dont actually know what they all are. I know thats what I am facing, Angel doesnt actually know al hislimits and we have had to stop things he thought he would enjoy becasue the feelings were all wrong. If you are interested in him, tell him that you have to talk about limits and boundaries. Anything not stated, he has to at the very least, try. And if something isnt going well, he has to explain to you WHY he wants it stopped, not just say thats it im out. Thats how I handle things at least. DV

ladylexington -> RE: limits and honesty (10/2/2006 7:01:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: overhereslave Thank you for your question. I, and he, knew this. But I didn't know the extent of his "fear" (uncomfortability? pride?). I'm wondering if he thought he could manage it or wanted to manage it, but in the end could not. Morrigan That was my first thought. If he hasn't shown passive-aggressive tendencies in the past, consider adding that to the hard limit list, and getting back to the play that you both enjoy.

undergroundsea -> RE: limits and honesty (10/3/2006 5:28:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: overhereslave As we progressed, I realized quickly that he was uncomfortable (again, not physically), but I pushed a bit because I thought he was ok with what was happening. Finally, he stopped the scene. I don't have a problem with that per se. I am upset because I feel he was vague previous to our coming together and the issue could have been avoided had he told Me earlier that he was not ok with it. Of course, added to that was My embarrassment. Here I thought he was having fun and he was very uncomfortable. I'm concerned that I could have so misjudged someone, or maybe what I mean is prejudge because nobody in My previous experience had ever not liked this sort of play. I also worry--what if it had been physical--he could have been hurt! Additionally, I felt a sense of annoyance that he stopped the scene. What was going on didn't seem so horribly bad, and I got this sense of entitlement; if he doesn't want to play My way then I won't play or can't he give a little for Me? a little stamping of the foot goes here Other posters have already made good points about him not knowing a limit, or him wanting to try it for your sake but then finding himself unable to do so as possibilities. The point I wish to add is that BDSM has a large mental component, and mental play has potential to create effects more serious or longer lasting than physical play. Because D/s is largely mental, something that disrupts or destroys the state of mind can indeed halt a scene. I recall a scene that began to conflict with a boundary. In general, I was feeling uneasy and concerned about how the dynamic was developing. I went with my instinct and asked to be excused to leave the scene--it was a multi-person scene. At the time, the domme expressed clear displeasure that I was leaving the scene, which struck me as a disregard for my boundaries or my right to end a scene. However, the next day she invited me for a shareback discussion for each to share how each felt. I think this discussion helped each of us learn from the experience. It also changed the negativity to appreciation for wanting to clear matters, and respect for wanting to learn from the experience. I appreciate that you are trying to understand what happened. I think a similar shareback discussion might be helpful to each of you. If your annoyance for having the scene stopped was obvious, he may feel negativity as I did, or may be reluctant to stop a scene in the future when there is a need. And hearing how you see the activity in question might help him stretch a boundary. Hearing how he sees it may help you understand if there is a good reason for the boundary. I attended a seminar at a convention this weekend where the presenter spoke about his ability to read body language and judge when to slow down. He also spoke of having and maintaing a connection and energy, and monitoring the same. His context was flogging. I wonder if in retrospect you see any signs or hints that can allow similar monitoring in the play you did. You said you sensed he was uncomfortable so it seems you were picking up some vibes. If you do engage in a shareback discussion, I wonder if the sub has any comments if you ask him how you could have picked up more on how he was feeling. On the note of picking up vibes, I think it is good to go with instincts when something seems not right and to check in with the other person. I was once engaged in a scene with a woman somewhat new to dominance. At one time, I sensed something amiss. The energy seemed off and she did not seem to be in the moment. I paused and whispered to ask how she was feeling. It turns out she was not fully at ease but did not want to say anything because she thought what I was doing was coming from a good space. I am glad I went with my instinct that something was not right and asked. My activity allowed the verbal check-in. I think a check- in can also be done non-verbally: grasping a hand or looking into eyes to see what response one finds. For a scene like a strap-on scene, a mirror that allows to see the face might help. My two cents. I hope it helps. Cheers, Sea

Jasmyn -> RE: limits and honesty (10/3/2006 9:14:44 AM)
quote: I, and he, knew this. But I didn't know the extent of his "fear" (uncomfortability? pride?). I'm wondering if he thought he could manage it or wanted to manage it, but in the end could not. Morrigan Is just me or is anyone else dying to know exactly what it was ;) I guess as others have said talk to him ... sometimes there is bravado and not wanting to let you down ... and sometimes it really is a case of they can't handle much at all but want the dominance/submission ... sometimes it's a case of this does not fit their definition of domination ... different folks for different strokes ... tickle his fancy a little ...

MistressSassy66 -> RE: limits and honesty (10/3/2006 1:07:48 PM)
I have had more than one who said no I dont like that(doesnt matter what IT is) after a few minutes of trying something they thought they wanted.I calmly stop doing whatever it is they dont like,telling them its okay,it's no problem and ask if they are okay.I tend to be more concerned with their embarassment than Mine. Sometimes you just dont know what you like until you actually do it. I think the key is to keep the communication open at all times,have a set back,talk about it so you can work through it.

michaelGA2 -> RE: limits and honesty (10/3/2006 2:35:46 PM)
i used to have all my limits on my profile and displayed complete honesty also, but was told by many my profile had too much info...go figure...

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