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RE: US National Intelligence Estimate - 10/1/2006 2:55:03 PM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
This is America's mess to clean up, more shame to our government!

Well, I don't want the government as either parent or child, so I don't feel that strongly about cleaning up the mess of one administration. In fact, I'd say there's an argument here for making certain persons in government and certain other corporations liable for the damage in Iraq. The Iraqis can sue them to destruction.

This is not *MY* war. I have done nothing but oppose it since day one.

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"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

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Post #: 41

RE: US National Intelligence Estimate - 10/1/2006 3:03:58 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

I was NEVER for the war, it was a travesty, more... it was a crime of opportunity. And yet, having done EVERYTHING I could to stop it (which wasn't much besides being completely useless, btw), there was really nothing anyone COULD do to stop the idiots running this country. And yet now, several years later, here we are with a situation. Is this war MY fault? HELL no! At the same time. I am AMERICAN. This is MY country. WE (collectively) caused this mess, and are honor bound to not leave Iraq in the state of disarray it is in now. The thousands of deaths that would happen immediately after our pull-out would be as blood on OUR hands as much as the 100,000+ Iraqi's who have already died. Ultimately, AMERICA is responsible.... and that means me and you and great aunt Nessie. Dubya may have no honor, morals or ethics... but by the Gods, I DO!!!!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
This is America's mess to clean up, more shame to our government!

Well, I don't want the government as either parent or child, so I don't feel that strongly about cleaning up the mess of one administration. In fact, I'd say there's an argument here for making certain persons in government and certain other corporations liable for the damage in Iraq. The Iraqis can sue them to destruction.

This is not *MY* war. I have done nothing but oppose it since day one.

< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 10/1/2006 3:13:25 PM >

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Post #: 42

RE: US National Intelligence Estimate - 10/1/2006 3:18:40 PM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
Dubya may have no honor, morals or ethics... but by Gods, I DO!!!!

Which is why I reject responsibility for this war, because I have honor. I will not besmirch my own anti-war position by accepting responsibility for the actions of the looters and warmongers - I would rather feed them back to the people of Iraq or to the International War Crimes Tribunal. Americans have been victimized also, not the least of them the troops in Iraq.

If we cannot gain control of the situation (which I believe you admit) then you are just wasting American time, American money, and the lives of our troops - literally for no reason whatever.

That's untenable.

My honor begins with some consideration toward the troops who need something a little more substantive than some absurd sense of moral obligation to be there risking their lives.

My other problem with your position is that despite apparent objections to the war your general attitude is to stay the course, the exact same conclusion held by this administration. So I ultimately don't care about your reasons for or against the war if you intend to do the exact same things the greedy warmongers intend to do already. Your position is the same in terms of what action to take next. What's worse, you take that position without even the hope of making millions as the members of the administration will doubtless do.

As you said: "completely useless."

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

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Post #: 43

RE: US National Intelligence Estimate - 10/1/2006 3:31:57 PM

SayYesMistress

Posts: 3
Joined: 9/30/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn

a crime of opportunity.

The single best description of the Iraq war I've read to date.

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Post #: 44

RE: US National Intelligence Estimate - 10/1/2006 3:41:37 PM

LadyMorgynn

Posts: 800
Joined: 11/25/2005
From: N. Carolina
Status: offline

I make it my responsibility to not just leave the mess we have created, for much better reasons than the ones you state below. I am thinking of all the thousands of Iraqi citizens who will die or live under terror and poverty, as a result of our abrupt withdrawal. They ARE our responsibility, because WE removed their government; we can't then just pull out and leave them to the mercies of terrorists and anarchy! Do I want us to stay? Do I support our troops being there AT ALL? Absolutely not. Yes, these are rather conflicting opinions, but it is not a cut-and-dry situation, things are not black and white. I would LOVE someone to find a solution that will not result in massive deaths of people (Iraqi's are people too you know)over there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaingang

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyMorgynn
Dubya may have no honor, morals or ethics... but by Gods, I DO!!!!

Which is why I reject responsibility for this war, because I have honor. I will not besmirch my own anti-war position by accepting responsibility for the actions of the looters and warmongers - I would rather feed them back to the people of Iraq or to the International War Crimes Tribunal. Americans have been victimized also, not the least of them the troops in Iraq.

If we cannot gain control of the situation (which I believe you admit) then you are just wasting American time, American money, and the lives of our troops - literally for no reason whatever.

That's untenable.

My honor begins with some consideration toward the troops who need something a little more substantive than some absurd sense of moral obligation to be there risking their lives.

My other problem with your position is that despite apparent objections to the war your general attitude is to stay the course, the exact same conclusion held by this administration. So I ultimately don't care about your reasons for or against the war if you intend to do the exact same things the greedy warmongers intend to do already. Your position is the same in terms of what action to take next. What's worse, you take that position without even the hope of making millions as the members of the administration will doubtless do.

As you said: "completely useless."