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Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 2:10:15 PM   
CrappyDom


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How people can flip through justifications and when one is exposed go on to the next one without ever stopping to wonder why they keep picking ideas that turn out to be wrong amazes me.

Muslims lived hand in hand with Jews and Christians for centuries, that is why there are still jewish and christians there.  In WWII we handed out booklets to our troops in the ME that described how to tell Christian from Muslim towns.  So those who believe they crawl around at night looking to behead people (until relatively recently) are ignorant of history.

Same goes for those justifying something or other (I can't exactly tell what) because it is Muslim killing Muslim in Iraq.  It IS our fault, they were not doing it under Saddam, so we own this problem.  Now the question is WHY are they doing this?

Because we have done such a shitty job of occupation that there is a massive power vacuum in Iraq and they are fighting over who gets to control the country.  Again, this is Bush's and the Republicans in congresses fault.  The Administration chose not to plan and the Republicans in congress chose not to ask questions.

The above is the same reason the army almost staged a coup the other day.  Politics, even more than nature, abhors a vacuum. 
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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 2:24:14 PM   
meatcleaver


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With the fall of the Ottoman Empire there was no top down authority to keep the lid on a potential powder keg, rather like the fall of the USSR released a potential powder keg. The British and French were mandated parts of the Empire after WWI but they didn't want to keep hold of it forever or at least until the rise of Germany again when the British and Germans played the Arabs off each other to access oil for the war effort. The drawing of lines in sand didn't help none and our persistent meddling has only made things worse. As for Jews, Christians and Muslims living together, they had no choice while they were in the same empire, once the empire had gone and the west played them all for the west's interests...well, it didn't take much to get them all fighting each other.

Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't write when I've been drinking.

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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 2:39:52 PM   
bills944


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Unbelievable comments on Hardball!!!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqPwUCx84zg&eurl= 

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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 2:50:05 PM   
bills944


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 http://www.why-war.com/news/2004/10/13/bushspec.html

Below is one of the first articles I have found which clearly states the
amounts of money and commissions and coinvestments that people like
James Baker associated with this administration are getting and
commissions they are getting from these countries that are benifitting
financially by the us military stopping Saddam from pumping Iraq's oil.
Now we have the clear money trail to those connected directly to Bush

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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 2:56:39 PM   
LadyMorgynn


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Why is it that, although THIS country is supposed to have much-touted freedom of the press, we have to go to other countries' reporting to find out what is really happening in our own country?  I have often wondered about that.

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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 3:59:30 PM   
CrappyDom


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I think that the current batch of journalists are not educated well enough and haven't seen high quality work to even know what to do.  In addition, this administration has been quite adept at punishing anyone willing to ask hard questions and to villify anyone who does.

Just look at how many issues broke in foreign papers first, usually the Guardian, sometimes several months before they broke here.

In addition, with the influx of corporate money and the resultant ending of local ownership of papers, that has been a corosive influence on hard hitting reporting as well.

Its a sad day when the hardest hitting news can be found on the Daily Show!

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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 4:07:55 PM   
LadyMorgynn


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*I* think that either the journalists know on which side their bread is buttered, or the government actively suppresses news.  A few years ago, a huge group of Native Americans invaded and occupied a town across the Nebraska border from the reservation.  I found a report of this buried in one small newspaper somewhere or other, but it never made national news.  Since there was a huge standoff with loads of feds with riot gear and weapons and shields and everything, and the Native Americans were entirely unarmed, it was to me completely amazing that it was not on national television, nor even made the newspapers!  Disgraceful, too.

And don't get me started on Leonard Peltier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

I think that the current batch of journalists are not educated well enough and haven't seen high quality work to even know what to do.  In addition, this administration has been quite adept at punishing anyone willing to ask hard questions and to villify anyone who does.

Just look at how many issues broke in foreign papers first, usually the Guardian, sometimes several months before they broke here.

In addition, with the influx of corporate money and the resultant ending of local ownership of papers, that has been a corosive influence on hard hitting reporting as well.

Its a sad day when the hardest hitting news can be found on the Daily Show!


< Message edited by LadyMorgynn -- 10/1/2006 4:08:22 PM >


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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 4:38:26 PM   
bills944


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That is a hard question to answer.  When John Kerry was running for president he said it was the Republican attack machine.  But it's more complicated and sophisticated than that.  It's a combination of the economic and political system and who owns and controls the media. 

The media is basically owned and controlled by large corporations and for the most part they are controlled or run by Republicans or conservatives.  In my opinion, they're interested in satisfying their personal interests which for the most part is to make money, to maximize profits and for the corporations to pay as little taxes as possible.  Most people who are wealthy, I don't believe they like to pay taxes either, it's only recently that billionaires like Bill Gates have become philanthropic. 

In a nutshell, without going into too much detail, because to answer the question you really have to do the research to prove it, I guess they just don't really have an interest in asking and getting answers to the hard questions.  It's not really worth it to them.   Look at Maureen Dowd, she works for the New York Times and she went to jail in order to protect her source. That whole thing about Lewis Libby being indicted and Valerie Plame being leaked that she works for the CIA undercover. Reporters really don't have a right to keep their sources secret.  So what happens is whistleblowers don't want to go to jail for telling the truth or lose their jobs either.  And, reporters don't like to go to jail.

I guess the real truth is that Americans really don't have as much rights and freedoms as they think they do,  especially under the Bush administration.  John Dean wrote a book called worse than Watergate.  Richard Nixon was a president who used wiretapping just like Bush.  And now, with the patriot act it's worse than ever.  And you know, by the way, that is a really phony issue, this crap about the patriot act and Bush saying Democrats are soft on terror because they don't support the patriot act. What a bunch of crap. 

The truth is they can do whatever they want right away without going to court and they have three days to go to court to justify whatever it is they want to do as far is wire tapping goes.  And 99.9% of the judges have approved whatever they wanted to do anyways.  It's just a phony issue to trick people so Republicans can fire up their base and get reelected.  And people aren't very bright and they fall for it.  That's why Bush is talking about the war on terror all the time now rather than the war in Iraq which he knows is a major disaster for Iraqis and Americans.  It won't be too much longer and half a $ trillion or $500 billion will have been wasted on that stupidity.  So they really could wiretap and protect people if it's necessary within the rules of the Constitution but they just make it a phony issue to get votes.

Basically, the Republicans are bullies.  They will go after and attack anyone who disagrees with them and smear them.  Just like they did to John Kerry.  They said he couldn't be trusted and they swift boated him. But the truth is John Kerry is a war hero and he did two tours in Vietnam and came back with purple hearts.  Bush didn't go to Vietnam because he went to the National Guard in order to avoid Vietnam and Dick Cheney got 5 deferments so he didn't have to go either.  That's why some people call them chicken hawks.  If Bush thinks this war is so great when don't his daughters go over there and fight?

They smeared Max Cleland who ran for the Senate in Georgia too and he came back from Vietnam having both legs amputated.  Can you imagine having both legs amputated fighting for your country in a war and having your patriotism challenged?

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RE: Why Iraq is a mess - 10/1/2006 6:44:18 PM   
LadyMorgynn


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It was disgraceful.  I'm a Vietnam-Era Veteran myself, and I thought it was disgraceful and a slur on every American who has ever served his (or her) country.

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Lady Morgynn
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