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Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 8:11:38 PM

juliaoceania

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For those not familiar with this concept I cut and pasted a little from Wikipedia to start a discussion and perhaps it might be something new for us to chew on, what does everyone think?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
<snip>Corporate personhood is a term used to describe the legal fiction used within United States law that a corporation, under the concept of legal entity, has a limited subset of the same constitutional rights as a human being. The choice of the word 'person' in 'personhood' arises from the way Section One of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution was worded and from earlier legal usage of the word 'person'.
Corporations as legal entities have always been able to perform commercial activities, similar to a person acting as a sole proprietor, such as entering into a contract or owning property. Therefore corporations have always had some limited amount of 'personhood', which has allowed corporations to conduct business while shielding individual stockholders from personal financial risk (i.e., protecting personal assets which were not invested in the corporation).
The stronger concept of corporate personhood is often traced to the 1886 U.S. Supreme Court case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company (118 U.S. 394), which provided some greater degree of protection from arbitrary state action. In their decision, the justices gave no explanation of how an amendment about the rights of former slaves should also apply to corporations <snip>

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 8:21:26 PM

Amaros

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It's an absurdity - if they are "persons", then they ought to be tried and sentenced when they act in ways that demonstrate a psychopathic indifference to public health and welfare.

If you or I went out and poisoned somebody's groundwater, we wouldn't be fined, we'd be imprisioned, perhaps even executed.

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 8:23:50 PM

juliaoceania

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Well we do not have money to throw around either

When NAFTA was framed the corporations in this country wrote it, labor was not allowed at the table. Individuals were not allowed to debate it. It was written behind closed doors.

That is giving corporations more rights than individuals if you ask me

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 8:45:51 PM

UtopianRanger

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quote:

That is giving corporations more rights than individuals if you ask me

It's essentially ideminification through ambuguity HAR!

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 8:54:24 PM

juliaoceania

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I was listening to one of my "geek" files (things dealing with obscure factoids regarding progressive political jargon...he hee) and I came upon this concept I had heard of, but I was not aware that the courtcase that established this concept was misintrepreted

Here is another excerpt off that wikipedia page that talks about the case and the controversy

case Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Company (118 U.S. 394), which provided some greater degree of protection from arbitrary state action. In their decision, the justices gave no explanation of how an amendment about the rights of former slaves should also apply to corporations.

I actuality the case was handed down in the other direction, it was a mistake that everyone thought this case paved the way for corporate personhood, but since then there have been 63 additional courtcases that cited this case as common law to argue for corporate personhood... so the original case that supported this concept had an opposite finding in reality..weird huh?

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 9:12:05 PM

Chaingang

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juliaoceania:

Stop hijacking my thread topics, dammit! It's starting to get on my tits! Twice now...
http://www.collarchat.com/m_610082/tm.htm

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 9:28:02 PM

juliaoceania

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I am just soooo annoying that way

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 10:03:53 PM

Chaingang

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Don't obiter dictum and falsified notes make for great case law?

This issue is crucial to the future. Countries are almost obsolete as it is.

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 10:06:10 PM

juliaoceania

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Can the precident be overturned at this point, or do we need amendments to the constitution to stop the buying of influence that the corporations do....

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 11:01:54 PM

Chaingang

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Oh, it can be overturned - absolutely. But don't hold your breath waiting for it. We have a near complete breakdown of the checks and balances system. And as NorthernGent commented in the other thread we have corporations as the true ruling body, the government which serves them, and we who serve the government in turn.

More and more, the relationship between citizens and the government is a mere fiction of law. Consider this:

"Citizenship is membership in a political society, and implies a duty of allegiance on the part of the member and a duty of protection on the part of the society. These are reciprocal obligations, one being a compensation for the other." - obiter dictum from LURIA v. U S, 231 U.S. 9 (1913), 231 U.S. 9 http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=231&invol=9

Okay, so you owe the state allegiance. What does the state have to provide in return? Before you answer, you have to consider this concept: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereign_immunity

So really, it's a very lopsided relationship we have at the moment. The government owes you nothing except at its own discretion. And it has masters valued above the citizenry.

What I keep telling people is that it matters less what we call our system of government and more that we get actual value for the monies collected by way of taxes. bills944 has recently said some interesting things on that subject here: http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=613412

"Remember it's true, dignity is valuable; But our lives are valuable too"
- David Bowie, lyrics to "Fantastic Voyage"

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 11:30:18 PM

Zensee

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If corporations are legally persons then many are psychopathic ones. 0

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/1/2006 11:33:30 PM

Lordandmaster

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Yeah. In the long run, I think a lot of the legal bullshit that has allowed corporations to get away with murder is going to be purged, but I see a lot more shit to clean up in the near future before we get there.

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ORIGINAL: Amaros

If you or I went out and poisoned somebody's groundwater, we wouldn't be fined, we'd be imprisioned, perhaps even executed.

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RE: Corporate Personhood - 10/2/2006 6:08:04 AM

pahunkboy

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out of all the issues this one REALLY PISSES ME OFF!

i can only be the beast that the bible talks about.

if we collectively had any guts we we demand all charter that must be up for renewal every 3 years, and we the people would DECHARTER a handful of them NOW.

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