RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion?

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/5/2006 7:56:36 PM

Smythe

Posts: 369
Joined: 12/31/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I don't take offense to the word "trained", but I think it's one of the silliest concepts of the lifestyle. What are you being trained for? Who are you being trained for? How can one person train you for another?

Pretty much my opinion. When I see the word train I think of a dressage horse. I tend to see the word trained as being similar to conditioned. Creating an automatic response or reflex that does not require thought. I happen to think a human being has more intelligence to think for themselves and figure out what works and doesn't. Besides, silly me, I thought a sub/slave served out of a desire to serve not because they were trained/conditioned to do so. Call me crazy but I don't want to have to train someone to give the illusion of wanting to please me, I want it to come from a deep desire within them.

I agree with this as well. I remember a thread from a long time ago which talked about whether or not dominants actually do *training* i.e. a systematic approach to altering the behavior of another. There were a few that really did have such an approach, but mostly I think it's a lot of hot air. The fact is, in any ongoing relationship, even D/S ones, both people are training each other to be in that relationship.

Smythe

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/5/2006 8:03:42 PM

DiurnalVampire

Posts: 8125
Joined: 1/19/2006
From: Nashville, TN
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I dont think it is offensive, just trying to make it sound "important". I think the guy who wrote it cant deal with the concept of being impressed with a sub who can independantly be good or impressive. There are a few dominant types out there that truly believe that a sub cannot truly be a good sub without the leadersthip of a Dom/Domme at some point. Personally, I think thats bullshit. Its like saying I am not a Domme if I dont have a sub at a particular point in time, or I am no longer bisexual becasue I dont have a boyfriend and a girlfriend. You do not need the other half of the equation to be what you are. It is just nice when it is there. Some of the best subs I have had had no formal "training", and I prefer it that way.

Just my 2 cents.

DV

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 6:14:19 AM

jimbo747

Posts: 109
Joined: 10/6/2006
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I dont think it takes anything away from us - it just acknowledges dommes and doms talents in training. Dont worry - most know we come with our own innate sub qualities.

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 6:38:14 AM

raiken

Posts: 868
Joined: 10/18/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvermoon

8/27/2006 11:25:56 AM: I am quite impressed with the quality of the subs on this website. Kudos go out to the Doms/Dommes who have trained them in the past.

This really irked me. I admit I am being over-sensitive on this. But I feel as tho this seriously lessens all the hard work submissives do INDEPENDANTLY, and gives Dominants all the credit. As though a 'good' submissive is only such through the hard work of a Dominant rather than the soul-deep journey taken of one's own accord. Some 'good' submissives may never have had 'training'. And no training in the world could turn a 'bad' sub, into a 'good' one. Only she/he can do that.

It also seems to promote the idea that a submissive is nothing without a Dominant.

Could it be it had nothing at all to do with Dominants?

Sincerely,
Silver

Ya know...Another way, would have been to personally write him and ask him his view on what he posted. Everyone has their own perspective, and is at their own levels of growth and understanding, and they live according to what personally works for them. There are so many concepts one adopts when entering this lifestyle. Just as there is no one right way to live it. *smile

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 7:17:16 AM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Smythe

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: KatyLied

I don't take offense to the word "trained", but I think it's one of the silliest concepts of the lifestyle. What are you being trained for? Who are you being trained for? How can one person train you for another?

Pretty much my opinion. When I see the word train I think of a dressage horse. I tend to see the word trained as being similar to conditioned. Creating an automatic response or reflex that does not require thought. I happen to think a human being has more intelligence to think for themselves and figure out what works and doesn't. Besides, silly me, I thought a sub/slave served out of a desire to serve not because they were trained/conditioned to do so. Call me crazy but I don't want to have to train someone to give the illusion of wanting to please me, I want it to come from a deep desire within them.

I agree with this as well. I remember a thread from a long time ago which talked about whether or not dominants actually do *training* i.e. a systematic approach to altering the behavior of another. There were a few that really did have such an approach, but mostly I think it's a lot of hot air. The fact is, in any ongoing relationship, even D/S ones, both people are training each other to be in that relationship.

Smythe

I have been trained on the job.
I have been trained on computer programs (anyone ever receive a training manual?).
I have been trained to operate machinery (although limited).
I took a Driver's Training course in high school (before they called it Driver's Ed)

Substitute "trained" with "taught" - same thing.

Master has trained/taught me to conduct self analysis so I could better know myself and learn to be happy
He has trained/taught me how to be connected to the inner core of my person.
He has trained/taught me to be intimately in tuned to my body.
He has trained/taught me to have the most mind boggling orgasms I have ever experienced.
He has trained/taught me to apply certain philosophies in life which have made me a better daughter, friend, lover, companion.
He has trained/taught me to negotiate at work better.
He has trained/taught me what pleases him - emotionally, mentally, physically - and how to succeed at it.
He has trained/taught me to forgive myself and others.
He has trained/taught me to be more gentle.
He has trained/taught me to lose baggage and inhibitions.
He has trained/taught me to express myself better.

I could go on. I do not see "training" as simply learning tricks, although it may include that. I see training as simply learning. When someone offers a compliment on my training, it makes me feel good, as I am proud of both Master and myself for what we have been able to accomplish together. I did the work, but he worked in guiding and teaching me.

I guess it's all in how you look at it. I don't offer this as an argument; only as my view of it.

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 3:55:16 PM

cloudboy

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I'm not sure I would classify advise and guidance as training. It seems too that you could substitute the word "influenced" for training in your post.

I associate "training" in a BDSM context as a set of behavior parameters with consequences.

Training can involve: speech, manners, reactions, dress, sexual release etc.

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 4:18:51 PM

pinkee

Posts: 487
Status: offline

Well, i have had offers from Men who wanted to "train" me, but not collar me. i've never been entirely clear on what this would entail; how i would benefit; or how my One would view another Dom's "rules" and such.

pinkee

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 5:55:41 PM

SirMoi

Posts: 12
Joined: 8/9/2004
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The word 'training' or 'trained' is a misnomer. A person is either submissive or is 'a submissive' and there's a huge difference.

In my years as a Dom/Master, I never felt the need to 'train' anyone, but I have instructed and I have communicated a desired behavior.

I believe that a person who is 'a submissive' in their heart requires no 'training' but does require some guidance.

My 2 cents worth.

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 7:23:15 PM

Iskander

Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
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I don't really have a problem with the 'training' word use... In a way I consider myself to be in training 2, I will probably be 'in training' till the day I die in one form or another...
What amuses me about what that person said is that the aspects of my relationship that could be called 'training my sub' are totally invisible to the rest of the world, they are about me and how gl relates to ME! How she relates to others, is her being, her personality, I may sometimes tell her, "you can't do or say that", and she will take it on board, thats not training, thats just reminding her to think before doing...

A better analogy imo would be sparring, you learn from sparring with someone in martial arts, neither is 'training' the other, but both (most of the time) learn from the experience...

Iskander...

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 9:12:48 PM

babysburnin

Posts: 421
Joined: 2/16/2006
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I wouldn't get bent out of shape, it was a compliment afterall. Nice subs, good Doms ... I would assume that this person was actually trying to be pleasant.

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 11:39:20 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I'm not sure I would classify advise and guidance as training. It seems too that you could substitute the word "influenced" for training in your post.

I associate "training" in a BDSM context as a set of behavior parameters with consequences.

Training can involve: speech, manners, reactions, dress, sexual release etc.

Trust me, there is nothing "advisory" in my relationship. He has more than merely influenced. I am instructed things for specific purposes and lessons, and he has specifically taught me specific ways of thinking.

I appreciate that you only relate training to BDSM specifics. Many do. In my experiences, it has encompassed that and more.

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RE: Pet Peeve, Your Opinion? - 10/6/2006 11:51:24 PM

ownedgirlie

Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SirMoi.

I believe that a person who is 'a submissive' in their heart requires no 'training' but does require some guidance.

To me this implies that you think "training" would be to train someone how to be submissive. Maybe I misunderstood. I think we're talking semantics anyway. To me, instructing someone how you want something done is teaching them, which could also be called training them. I disagree that someone who needed any sort of training must not be submissive at heart. One could be incredibly submissive, yet not know what to do with her/his submission. I, for example, had to be taught/trained that just because I am submissive, does not mean it is appropriate to behave submissively to all. I had to be taught a lot of things about myself, actually, most of which had to do with uncovering the layers of who I really am....which is incredibly submissive at heart.

I think training is just a word that rubs a lot of people wrong. I keep equating it with "teach." I decided to look it up. I highlighted in red the definitions that I find applicable:

Main Entry: 3train
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French trainer, from Vulgar Latin *traginare; akin to Latin trahere to draw
transitive verb
1 : TRAIL, DRAG
2 : to direct the growth of (a plant) usually by bending, pruning, and tying
3 a : to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b : to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient
4 : to make prepared (as by exercise) for a test of skill
5 : to aim at an object or objective : DIRECT <trained his camera on the deer> <training every effort toward success>
intransitive verb
1 : to undergo instruction, discipline, or drill
2 : to go by train
synonym see TEACH

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