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Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 10:45:05 AM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Way back when....lol.....admission to a BDSM community was done by having an active member of that community invite you. In order for you to attend that person had to put his/her reputation on the line and vouch for you and attest that they knew you well.

Today, many people get to communities by finding a link on the internet. Often times no one in that community knows the person at all before they are in attendance.

What do you see as the pros/cons to each scenario?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 10:51:54 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline 		The pros are that I don't have to make a particular person like me before I present who I am.  I can be presented to a community on my own terms, in my own way, rather than through someone else's lens.  It makes being in the scene less of an obvious popularity contest and more about simply a community to be part of.

I know some people would say that having fewer screens to keep out the dorks is a con, and that people don't appreciate the seriousness of the scene as a con...but really, I don't see those as drawbacks.  It forces people to act as adults and learn how to work with others- rather than just having an exclusive clubhouse. 

Anyway, politics and immature brats still abound in the scene anyway, usually most often in the leadership positions.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 2
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 10:54:26 AM   
Iskander


Posts: 264
Joined: 9/26/2006
Status: offline 		I'm a firm believer in what you know, not who you know...

Iskander...



(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 3
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 11:00:58 AM   
sweetnurseBBW


Posts: 2464
Joined: 1/26/2006
From: North Carolina
Status: offline 		Well for one, no one knows them. Before the internet you had to be sponsered by someone and that sponser better be sure that you werent a player. Internet links people of a same group together, so that is good. In my area the "greeters" meet you before you join their group. They like to feel people out to see if they are a good fit or not. They also let them know the rules and such.

_____________________________

Sir Pain's pain slut

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 11:03:10 AM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Exclusivity (Old way) had the benifits of being able to screen out undesireables, (predators, wankers, etc).
Exclusivity had the drawback of excluding many who were perfectly viable as community members on the basis of them simply not knowing anyone.
Exclusivity had the benifit of nowing the reputation of most if not all the members in your community.
Exclusivity had the drawback of everyone knowing everyone elses business.

Inclusivity while it solved the problem of folks not being brought in simply because they didn't know anyone, has at the same time permitted predators and wankers into our ranks with little being able to be done to move them out.
Inclussivity means we know longer now everyone elses business we also have hundreds of folks who we cannot get or give a reference on because we don't know them well enough for a reference to mean anything.

Problem with both systems is that really bad head cases can still move from one community location to another and not have their reputation follow so they have a limitless source of people to abuse.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 5
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 11:32:13 AM   
jamesthehumanrug


Posts: 668
Joined: 10/21/2005
Status: offline 		greetings misto
i like head hunters who are tops and i like to know knowledge is still power so anyone ambitious can find networks; learn the rules ;and slip in; but the reference thing ;they can always be ready to blow or lay for you; subconsciuously or not; and, then hate your gutts; by then ;it's too late to tell anyone at the top; that this reference is either nuts; or isnt amiable; and their recommendations about you  ,just simply isnt true;or seems messyier, than a devorce roster;how long can you smile for some people and hope your civil rites depend on their good moods...at best ,when dealing with word of mouth ,and the unwritten buddy system;which has a way of disappearing;;write your own recommendation or refferrals; and give it to the assistant of the one most influential ;like you have no agenda;or kneel and hand it to the top of tops;dont waste your time on this earth....
so .....
you can always just skip the brown nose stuff (unless its bed)and do it yourself is my motto-
even internet places ;eventually ;you have to make some kind of personal appearance
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Way back when....lol.....admission to a BDSM community was done by having an active member of that community invite you. In order for you to attend that person had to put his/her reputation on the line and vouch for you and attest that they knew you well.

Today, many people get to communities by finding a link on the internet. Often times no one in that community knows the person at all before they are in attendance.

What do you see as the pros/cons to each scenario?


< Message edited by jamesthehumanrug -- 10/4/2006 11:39:38 AM >

_____________________________

I REMAIN RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED
,LOVEles,
jamesthehumanrug

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 6
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 12:04:00 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline 		Do you think that the new way impedes the passing along of the basic tenets of this lifestyle? In the old way, newcomers were rather "taken under wing" and taught at least the basic principles and belefs. The new way is far less personal and often times doesn't allow for such. Good or bad?

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 12:14:11 PM   
LuckyAlbatross


Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Do you think that the new way impedes the passing along of the basic tenets of this lifestyle? In the old way, newcomers were rather "taken under wing" and taught at least the basic principles and belefs. The new way is far less personal and often times doesn't allow for such. Good or bad?

I think age differences/dissonances is causing this more than inclusive/exclusive culture.  People of all ages are coming into the scene now, though 30s/40s still make up a large majority and quickly try and assert superiority over the "uppity youngster teens/20s" who then feel resentful of not being given their due respect.  I think this will be the largest issue when it comes to passing on information and skill.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 8
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 12:33:09 PM   
Archer


Posts: 3207
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross

quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin
Do you think that the new way impedes the passing along of the basic tenets of this lifestyle? In the old way, newcomers were rather "taken under wing" and taught at least the basic principles and belefs. The new way is far less personal and often times doesn't allow for such. Good or bad?

I think age differences/dissonances is causing this more than inclusive/exclusive culture.  People of all ages are coming into the scene now, though 30s/40s still make up a large majority and quickly try and assert superiority over the "uppity youngster teens/20s" who then feel resentful of not being given their due respect.  I think this will be the largest issue when it comes to passing on information and skill.


I see a little of that, but over half of it I see, is misread as assertting superiority as opposed to being advised. Feeling their youth and inexperience they assume they are being talked down to even when the intent is not there.

And I certainly see enough cases of the Uppity Young folks claiming to know what they are doing when a coursory look tells you they don't.

Of course it is the same with any community the young know everything until they get a little older and then it seems their elders become smarter and smarter.
And the youth are all out to destroy the traditions that have served the elders for so long.

Fault for the gap lies on both sides of the question.

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 9
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 3:40:26 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer
I see a little of that, but over half of it I see, is misread as assertting superiority as opposed to being advised. Feeling their youth and inexperience they assume they are being talked down to even when the intent is not there.


This I see often...and wow do I wish I knew how to get around it. Sometimes it seems no matter how I tack.....the result is exactly what you describe.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 10
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 3:47:58 PM   
Noah


Posts: 1660
Joined: 7/5/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Do you think that the new way impedes the passing along of the basic tenets of this lifestyle? In the old way, newcomers were rather "taken under wing" and taught at least the basic principles and belefs. The new way is far less personal and often times doesn't allow for such. Good or bad?


Could you please list or outline for us these basic tenets, principles and beliefs of the lifestyle?


(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 11
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 3:50:40 PM   
Tikkiee


Posts: 1099
Joined: 4/6/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Archer

Exclusivity (Old way) had the benifits of being able to screen out undesireables, (predators, wankers, etc).
Exclusivity had the drawback of excluding many who were perfectly viable as community members on the basis of them simply not knowing anyone.
Exclusivity had the benifit of nowing the reputation of most if not all the members in your community.
Exclusivity had the drawback of everyone knowing everyone elses business.

Inclusivity while it solved the problem of folks not being brought in simply because they didn't know anyone, has at the same time permitted predators and wankers into our ranks with little being able to be done to move them out.
Inclussivity means we know longer now everyone elses business we also have hundreds of folks who we cannot get or give a reference on because we don't know them well enough for a reference to mean anything.

Problem with both systems is that really bad head cases can still move from one community location to another and not have their reputation follow so they have a limitless source of people to abuse.

I like how this was stated. Nicely done Archer

_____________________________

~~@ cass @~~

(in reply to Archer)
Profile   Post #: 12
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 4:00:38 PM   
ScooterTrash


Posts: 1407
Joined: 1/24/2005
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Way back when....lol.....admission to a BDSM community was done by having an active member of that community invite you. In order for you to attend that person had to put his/her reputation on the line and vouch for you and attest that they knew you well.

Today, many people get to communities by finding a link on the internet. Often times no one in that community knows the person at all before they are in attendance.

What do you see as the pros/cons to each scenario?

Pros; They automatically have a mentor of sorts, someone who has given something of themselves to get them "in".
 
Cons; Honestly, with the advent of the internet and the availability of being able to meet someone, even as just a friend, so easy...I can't think of any.
 
Even our munch group requires some form of "validation" prior to acceptance. No, it doesn't have to be a personal reference, but it does require some question and answer criteria.
 
As for large events, I think the requirements are lax anymore. For all practical purposes, anyone with a credit or debit card may attend.
 
edited to say; I might have misread this erin, I was thinking of events or play parties.

< Message edited by ScooterTrash -- 10/4/2006 4:01:43 PM >

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-Albert Einstein

(in reply to mistoferin)
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RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 4:37:08 PM   
mistoferin


Posts: 8284
Joined: 10/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Noah
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Do you think that the new way impedes the passing along of the basic tenets of this lifestyle? In the old way, newcomers were rather "taken under wing" and taught at least the basic principles and belefs. The new way is far less personal and often times doesn't allow for such. Good or bad?


Could you please list or outline for us these basic tenets, principles and beliefs of the lifestyle?


No disrespect Noah, but no I won't. That is not where I want this thread to go. This isn't about anyone's one true way or what the right way or the wrong way is or what one person feels is real BDSM vs the next person. I have no desire to see this turn into a train wreck and I am afraid that going down that path would take it there. Suffice to say that what I have come to understand this lifestyle means and what it means personally to me will be different from some others...it will also be similar to some. I have no desire to turn the differences into a pissing contest. The questions are simple and my goal is to find out people's thoughts on what they feel we may have lost or what they think we may have gained as a result of the change from the personal to the impersonal way in which we come here.

_____________________________

Peace and light,
~erin~

There are no victims here...only volunteers.

When you make a habit of playing on the tracks, you thereby forfeit the right to bitch when you get hit by a train.

"I did it! I admit it and I'm gonna do it again!"

(in reply to Noah)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 5:01:52 PM   
MasterC46910


Posts: 108
Joined: 4/17/2006
Status: offline 		When I started, I was invited to join a small group.  I was taken in as an apprentice, trained under two Masters and Grand Master.  Took about 18 months of at least weekly training to earn the title of Master.  During the apprenticeship I was not allowed to play with a bottom without either at least one of the Masters or the Grand Master present.  Then only experienced bottoms.  For six months after my receiving the title of Master I was allowed to play alone but only allowed to play with approved experienced bottoms for about six months.  At which time it was agreed by most of the group I was trained and experienced enough to be allowed to play with any bottom in the group.

The point I am making with the explanation is that with the old ways, there was more control and training.  You had someone training you and overseeing your growth.  There was a lot more control.  But then it was not so much a social event as it is today.  It was very formal and rule guided. 

Unlike today, it is much more casual and open to interpretation of not only the rules but the meaning of basic terms used in the lifestyle.  I personally can't see where you can actually make a good comparison of the differents.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/4/2006 5:53:04 PM   
mstrjx


Posts: 2045
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline 		There was still 'Old Guard' when I started in 1991, at least to a degree.  But my very first public exposure was at a setting probably similar to the DomCon in Atlanta this weekend.  One day, rather than multi-day, with a play party.

After that, there were smaller groups that I ended up getting involved with, but they were, as mentioned, by invitation only.  My reputation, which was consistently strong, grew.

But I didn't 'stay' in the public realm.  Most of my partners weren't big into knowing other players, and I didn't push the issue.

Fast forward to 2006.  Just this week I read on the board here that DomCon is in town, but that's probably a little TOO big for a public 'coming back' for me.  I know of the 'public' dungeon, but don't think that is the best place to get back into it.  Or maybe it is, and I'm being stubborn.

But I don't even know if I know how to find a simple 'munch' in Atlanta.  So I feel as if I'm on the outside looking in, needing an invitation, as the greenest 'newbie' around.

Except I already have all the cool toys.  And have had for the better part of 15 years.

Jeff

_____________________________

Know thyself. It's the best gift you can ever give yourself.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/5/2006 5:42:06 AM   
SirLordTrainer


Posts: 820
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: Indy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash
Even our munch group requires some form of "validation" prior to acceptance. No, it doesn't have to be a personal reference, but it does require some question and answer criteria.
 


I know some munch groups across the country require some form of screening/validation, which to Me I think is great as it helps weed out potential abusers, ignorant posers, married folks looking to cheat, and the all around numbnut dipwad just out for sex. Although that says nothing for the clique-queens. Which is reason #143, of why I stopped attending. Just My 2 cents. 

_____________________________

Accepting one's own imperfections eliminates a roadblock to progress.

(in reply to ScooterTrash)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/5/2006 6:33:08 AM   
deltadawn


Posts: 224
Joined: 7/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mistoferin

Way back when....lol.....admission to a BDSM community was done by having an active member of that community invite you. In order for you to attend that person had to put his/her reputation on the line and vouch for you and attest that they knew you well.

Today, many people get to communities by finding a link on the internet. Often times no one in that community knows the person at all before they are in attendance.

What do you see as the pros/cons to each scenario?


I see many pros. 

It is much easier today to learn about and become active in the BDSM community. 

Nobody has to already "KNOW" someone to be acknowledged.  We are all kept much more alert to the newer members who walk through the doors of the hall, really getting to know them and not the person that they happened to know.

People are able to 'come out' at a much younger age, allowing their true feelings to come out along with them. 

The cons?  Not sure there really are any with one exception.. It opens the door for some strange people who believe they are dom or sub enter......but is that really a con, afterall they are seen pretty quickly in a real time setting.

dawn 

_____________________________

Beneath his wings, I can fly.

(in reply to mistoferin)
Profile   Post #: 18
RE: Old vs. new ways of becoming involved - 10/5/2006 7:34:47 AM   
Jasmyn


Posts: 1234
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: New Zealand
Status: offline 		About the only issue I have with the open all inclusive whatever it is you do style of 'lifestyle' I find online and sometimes off ... is people who align themselves with a group and then use group resources to further whatever hideious unconsensual course they want to take, and people who involve themselves with a group who never so much as shows their face at any events, despite meeting people through community resources for the past three years, crying foul when something goes wrong and demands then community 'heads' do something about it ... a lobotomy comes to mind ...

_____________________________

quote:

"To learn the art of submission a slave must first give up the desires that drew him to submission in the first place." Mistress Jasmyn Jan 2005.


Visit My Website


(in reply to deltadawn)
Profile   Post #: 19
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