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submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 7:58:33 AM

RiotGirl

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 8:48:01 AM

liljoy

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~stands to do the wave and a stading ovation~
Very well spoken!!! Gosh i do wish i had the gift of speach that so many here do. Since i don't i'll just sit back and praise those of you that do.
lil_joy

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 9:24:12 AM

Tempestspet

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riotgirl, you said it sooooo well...!!
This is why we have a Master, is it not? ..smiles..
I know that when I *feel* like i need some alone time, then I am free to go to my Master and ask, for some alone time, to go somewhere, or whatever. As my Master says, I am allowed to ask, but not to assume iI may just do. He may as likely say yes, as no. It depends on what he wants.
I trust that Master has my best interests at all times. This is a good part of a solid relationship, is it not?
As all can tell, I am new to the boards. Please bear with as I post, i am trying to not harp on already said things. But if any has advice, it is welcomed.

Thank you,
Tempest's pet

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 12:44:57 PM

sub4hire

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"okay i've heard abit of the submissive needs and i would post under topic but i heard there was a big ol arguement and i dont want to add anymore to a post gone negative. i would like to put my input."

I had not read that. Of course the sun is out it is like summer here almost. Well, at least a bearable summer. So I’ve been spending most of my free time gardening.

"Those needs and desires are based on what Master sees fit."

I feel the above statement is incorrect. It depends on the dynamics of the relationship. In today’s society with people offering collar’s when they don’t even know one another’s first names yet. How can the person know well enough to do anything? Let alone “assume” the slaves needs?
Now, in a real relationship with the right amount of communication, then I could agree. Although I know of maybe 1 or 2 of those such relationships in real life at the moment. So, I think I’d still have to disagree. We do not live in a perfect world.

"Master will do as Master wants to do."

I feel the above statement is incorrect once more. Yes, but then again. Many will do whatever they want to. Whether right or wrong. We’d like to hope someone who has gained the title of Master has learned you communicate with your submissive by then.

" slave and subs needs and desires are based on what Master sees fit "

I see the above statement as incorrect once more. As I’ve already stated most masters do not know their submissives so therefore they cannot possibly have a real grip on reality for the other person.

Well, as I can see I can go on and on with my disagreements here. So, I might as well stop right here and now. Yes, in some instances I do agree with you. However if you look at society in general most of these statements just don’t fit.

I know myself, I assume people within the scene to have at least decent common sense. Yes, I’ve been proven wrong time and time again by those I meet in the scene. I know I haven’t met the world. I know there are other’s out there whose relationship works perfect day in and day out. I’m just yet to meet them. I know the dynamics of a good working relationship. As I’ve already stated I just don’t see it often enough.

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 1:55:42 PM

Tempestspet

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I know a several of such relationships at this time. And really, one can only seriously speak to those. For the "relationships" ,and I can't use the term more loosely than this, that you mentioned that exist collaring without knowing first names. I can't help but dismiss those almost entirely, as they are not realtionships at all.

I guess the likely hood of the Master knowing his or her sub, I believe, increases and can be credited to actually having met, and be aruund the sub for a substantial amount of time. Until that's achieved, I don't think it's wise for the sub to put that pressure, nor that ability in the Doms hands. Internet is great for play, fantasy, and perhaps making aquaintences, but I don't believe this is the place to build a lasting relationship.

Just my 2 cents..

Tempest's pet

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 1:58:47 PM

sub4hire

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quote:

I guess the likely hood of the Master knowing his or her sub, I believe, increases and can be credited to actually having met, and be aruund the sub for a substantial amount of time. Until that's achieved, I don't think it's wise for the sub to put that pressure, nor that ability in the Doms hands. Internet is great for play, fantasy, and perhaps making aquaintences, but I don't believe this is the place to build a lasting relationship.

I can't agree more. Some Master's do know their subs well enough. I wanted to make the point that some do not. A great many of them do not. After all, where are we chatting here? Not face to face and in person.
It is like arguing both sides of the fence, just something you can't do well enough.

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 2:22:33 PM

Tempestspet

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very true sub4hire... while I would not have a D/s or any other romantic based relationship on here, I do very much enjoy my interaction with others on this basis, friendly - no D/s

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 2:24:11 PM

INSIDEYOURMIND

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Can I add, and no B/S?

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 2:39:24 PM

Tempestspet

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absolutely, smiles...
though I hope you are not talking about me? Because like you, the BS gets old. I have to wonder some of posts, and threads started.... are they for pure sympathy? I don't think most, or even that many are... but geez..
Drama, it's not a way of life....really

smiles
Tempest's pet

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 4:46:47 PM

harmony3709

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sub4hire

As I’ve already stated most masters do not know their submissives so therefore they cannot possibly have a real grip on reality for the other person.

This is why I happen to not mind at all that these topics come up over and over again on forum boards such as these. I have been involved in the lifestyle for almost four years, three of that real time and involved in the scene in my area, have read books, message boards, forums, articles.........ad naseum at times, and been involved in many group discussons at local events and with other people face to face.

And yet, this one sentance in the way it was phrased, and then other comments that followed this one, made this clear for me in a way I had been struggling with in the past. I knew what I felt, but just couldn't quite put my finger on exactly what it was that was bothering me -- and why. For me, this better understanding -- and complete agreement, I might add -- with this single sentence, will hopefully be another piece of information that will aid me in my search for a Dom who will be a better match for me, and me for him of course, ultimately resulting in a great D/s relationship.

Now, to some this may be a DUH!! kind of thing -- but to me it is part of the learning experience, as well as self-exploration. I don't pretend to know everything, and have no problem with admitting I still have a hell of a lot to learn.....about myself, about the lifestyle in general, and definitely about a successful relationship.

I don't know it all nor pretend to! Let's not stop talking about topics because some people feel they have heard it all and there is nothing left to contribute!! New people add new comments and something may be stated in a way that makes it clear to people or poses a new way to look at something -- and new people to the lifestyle will find these topics new and not old at all anyway.

A bit off topic, I realize, but when I read something that I feel is newfound knowledge I was glad to learn of on these forums, I would hate to see the loss of that, just because it has frequently been discussed before.

Thanks for all who contribute,
harmony

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 8:51:23 PM

RiotGirl

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 9:38:18 PM

Tempestspet

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Perhaps the confusion for some, is who decides what title is given, be it Top, Dom, or Master?

Seems, that Top, Dom, or Master, is the one entitling themselves. So if that's the case, how do you know they are in fact Master? How did they acheive that? And how do you prove it? Unless it's to hold off on the collaring, I know for some this is hard, and get to know the person instead of jumping in head first.

I've met many online that claim the title master, and all I can do is shake my head. They clearly had not, upon further conversation, mastered there own world, so how can you hope to Understand my needs (not wants) and master my world?

I have seen these sites that serial number, and register subs, and slaves. Do we maybe need a site that registers the Tops, Doms, and Masters? Maybe outlining the aprenticeship they have done, seminars completed, and classes attended, and the psych. eval. they passed saying they were capable mentally of taking care of not only themselves but another who will depend on them for so much?
This seems pretty sarcastic, but it's either that or talk all these subs and slaves into not jumping into the collar like a circus animal through a hoop. And by no means am I accusing all subs of this, but if this makes you angry, or embarrassed or both of these things, then you are probably the one I am talking to.

Thank you for listening, and I hope responding to.

Tempest's pet

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RE: submissives/slaves - 1/20/2005 10:43:28 PM

1RottenJohnny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

A slave and subs needs and desires are based on what Master sees fit

From reading your post it's obvious you understand the difference between a "want" and a "need" but isn't this a little too simplistic? I'm sure you say this because you have a true affection for your Sir and I'm certainly happy for you. I'd like to think erin feels the same way but I know if I tried to lead based on this theory I'd surely start failing to recognize her real needs. I sometimes think I know her well enough but something always pops up that shows me I really don't.

I tend to agree with Gloria on her points regarding the amount of communication required in order for a relationship to work on this level. I'm sure the more time you spend with the same person the more you can act this way but I think it's the ONLY way it can work well enough for your real needs to be fully considered. If you and your Sir are on this level then I'm even more happy for you.

Addendum: It took me so long to reply to this that others got more responses in. If I'm now speaking out of context please accept my apologies.

< Message edited by 1RottenJohnny -- 1/20/2005 10:50:09 PM >

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