Bait and Switch (Full Version)

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Dnomyar -> Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:01:23 AM)

I came across the term Bait and Switch from another post. I have come across people who want to start off vanilla and then later may switch into the lifestyle. The question is how much time if any at all should you invest it these peoplel.
















gooddogbenji -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:05:06 AM)

Ummmmmm....  Huh?

That's not bait and switch, that's rational.  From what I understand, these are people who say they don't want to submit till they get to know you better kinda thing?

Please expand.....

Yours,


benji




CelticPrince -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:05:09 AM)

the amount of time depends on your true interest in the person. They may have an interest in the path, but are afraid to try it, that is where your personal appraisal come in.

General for me the answer is zero. If the want is not there, it is a waste of time.

CP




becca333 -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:05:13 AM)

It's always worth investing some time to turn a poor, clueless vanilla towards the delicious dark side.




Iskander -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:05:23 AM)

Very little, it rarely works.. IMO and experience...

Iskander...





MstrssPassion -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:06:56 AM)

depends on the person

Being in the "lifestyle" isn't like recognizing your sexual orientation or gender identity... typically one has this figured out quite young. Figuring out your place in this "lifestyle" may not be something you figure out until quite later in life.




juliaoceania -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:12:48 AM)

If someone tells me one thing until I commit to them and then gives me another thing after I do I would feel I had been the victim of bait and switch. That does not mean people do not have their needs honestly change as time evolves, but if it is a sudden abrupt change then I would wonder if I was the victim of such a thing.

Being involved with a person that has been the victim of bait and switch is not easy, because it can cause distrust with a new person. How do you trust someone when another person you have committed to pulled this type of maneuver on you? It is one of the most selfish and damaging things one person can do to another in my opinion...

I have been involved with people that had their former wife pull the bait and switch this way... acting interested in lots of sex until "I do" was said... and then NOTHING. Then me, the person that comes along next pays for this bullshit... because I love sex and do not see it as a tool to get a commitment.





RiotGirl -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:15:04 AM)

sounds abit like tease and denial to me




MasterFireMaam -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:28:26 AM)

It's possible that what they're saying is they want to see if there's a core relationship there, before any kink is involved. If you took out the Ds and BDSM, would you still be compatible, in other words?

Invest as much time as you feel the person is worth. Working on a "maybe" is hard and there's nothing wrong with choosing to do so...or not.

Master Fire




LuckyAlbatross -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 10:37:07 AM)

FR

If the person is vanilla but saying they might be open to exploring what you're into later, then they aren't baiting and switching, they are being honest.

If the person is kinky but wants to start a relationship with you that's not based on authority first, that's just how they get involved.

If the person changes their mind, well that does suck, but it is the risks that one takes.  At least they are still being honest. 

I honestly don't get involved with someone based on what they MAY want in the future.  I see who we are together NOW, where we will likely go in the future, and whether our priorities match well.




behindmirrors -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 11:33:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I came across the term Bait and Switch from another post. I have come across people who want to start off vanilla and then later may switch into the lifestyle. The question is how much time if any at all should you invest it these peoplel.


My $0.02:

Well, this answer seems easy- you should invest as much time as you feel is worth it in these people. Do you feel that they, as a person, are worth your time, and that something more may come of it? Then invest. Otherwise, don't.

Speaking as one of "these people"- I started in a vanilla relationship that progressed into D/s after discussion about our fantasies, which were incredibly compatible. I wouldn't call this "bait and switch"- I think that's when someone leads you on to believe one thing and then dicks you over later. Kind of like being nice for a while to lure someone into a vulnerable position and then screwing them over, I guess- there was nothing of that in our situation- there was no pretense of D/s at the beginning, just two people who liked each other, worked out as a couple, and then we explored. I'd say it's more of a "making sure we're compatible on multiple levels and I trust you as a person before I trust myself to you as a submissive".

For me, developing trust in and love for my then-boyfriend-now-Dom was the key for me to be comfortable enough to bring up the topic of D/s and how I have had all these strange submissive feelings and fantasies for years and would like to finally act on them. For someone new to it, there can be a lot of time needed to feel safe enough to bring this up and share it with a partner- especially if they don't know what their partner thinks about it.

Now, if someone is meeting under the pretense of a D/s relationship, and then tells you they only want something vanilla for now, that's different than my situation, but I believe it has much to do with the same things ours did- making sure that you have more in common than whips and ropes, feeling safe with the other person, developing trust and connection, and making sure you're not getting into a bad situation. People should know each other well enough to know they have more in common than D/s- after a few years, discussing only that and doing only that would get old if there is no other common ground, especially in a 24/7-ish situation.

Perhaps things like that should be said up front: it's not too hard to say "I want to make sure we're compatible as people first, and have a good connection, trust and communication with each other before I'm willing to enter into a power exchange." It's a reasonable request, and for the eventual good of all parties involved. In my opinion, there has to be more than who likes to get tied up in this sort of thing- the people in each relationship need more than that to feel secure.

Haha, if that was supposed to be $0.02, I just gave you a $1.27.
behindmirrors.




CreativeDominant -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 11:43:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I came across the term Bait and Switch from another post. I have come across people who want to start off vanilla and then later may switch into the lifestyle. The question is how much time if any at all should you invest it these peoplel.


This is something only you can decide.  I will agree with those who state that this is not "bait and switch".  Bait is offering one thing in order to get what you want and then, once you have it, switching what it is you are giving to something that makes you happy though it may not (most likely will not) make your "fish" happy. 

Having dealt with someone who wanted to be with me and who, once I explained where I am as compared to where I was when she first knew me, still stated they were open to the idea of D/s and BDSM and then having her turn away every attempt at dominance on my part and dislike almost everything about BDSM that I introduced except for the sexual variations, I realized that she was not really open to D/s, she just wanted to be with me.  While that's flattering in its own right, looking at the whole situation and what had been transpiring rationally told me that I had been the victim of a "bait and switch".  No matter how compatible we were in many areas, this area of my life...the D/s and the BDSM...are important facets of me that I don't wish to turn from any longer.  I've been there...the nilla life...and don't want it anymore.





SEVADom -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 12:26:09 PM)

In my opinion, it's only bait and switch if there is intent on the 1st person's part to involve a 2nd in a relationship the terms of which (power exchange or not, sex or not!, whatever) the 1st person has every intention of radically changing after the relationship is established -- and the 1st person conceals this intent.

It is regrettable when one party's desires change over time (to something incompatible with their partner's) and the other's do not -- but it isn't dishonest. Bait and switch is dishonest -- and, in a commercial (vs. interpersonal) context, is illegal, at least in the United States (for states that use the UCC - which is most or all of 'em).




gypsygrl -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 1:39:32 PM)

Yeah, I've had an experience similar to CreativeDominant only as a submissive female.  I don't think there was any intent to manipulate, but its very unsatisfying to be under the impression that someone in interested in accepting my submission, even if only in the context of play, but doen't and  always seems to want to take play in the direction of vanilla romance.  As a submissive, I attempted to go with it on the assumption that that was what he wanted and needed so it worked for a while but eventually got to the point where I couldn't do that any more.

I guess the answer is invest into it as much as you get out of it.  When you start feeling an energy drain,  reconsider.  Just go in with your eyes open.




MasterKalif -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 2:50:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

If someone tells me one thing until I commit to them and then gives me another thing after I do I would feel I had been the victim of bait and switch. That does not mean people do not have their needs honestly change as time evolves, but if it is a sudden abrupt change then I would wonder if I was the victim of such a thing.

Being involved with a person that has been the victim of bait and switch is not easy, because it can cause distrust with a new person. How do you trust someone when another person you have committed to pulled this type of maneuver on you? It is one of the most selfish and damaging things one person can do to another in my opinion...

I have been involved with people that had their former wife pull the bait and switch this way... acting interested in lots of sex until "I do" was said... and then NOTHING. Then me, the person that comes along next pays for this bullshit... because I love sex and do not see it as a tool to get a commitment.




oh gosh, sounds like my ex, she was all sweet in the end just to get me to commit to her, and then when it failed, she showed her true colors. Just wanted to let you know that I enjoy reading your posts!
[:D]




Aine -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 2:58:36 PM)

Fast Reply

To me it's black and white.

Bait & Switch.  Complete DIShonesty in that they do not disclose their intentions.

Then there's changes in what a person sees how they want to move forward in their life and speaking that honestly to the person they want to get involved with.




Missokyst -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 4:48:45 PM)

I don't see a thing wrong with starting out Not D/S when you are seeing if someone is compatible.
Maybe they just want to take the time to see if YOU are the one to whom they might submit.

Maybe it isn't so much nilla, since they obviously have an interest here.  Instead it could be that they have reservations about to whom they submit.

It is a pretty natural hesitation.

As to how long one should wait?  Only as long as the time you are willing to invest in this. 
Kyst

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

I came across the term Bait and Switch from another post. I have come across people who want to start off vanilla and then later may switch into the lifestyle. The question is how much time if any at all should you invest it these peoplel.

















LadyEllen -> RE: Bait and Switch (10/5/2006 6:00:16 PM)

Well, I got that wrong then!

I thought it was a thread on one of my favourites - where I bait the poor boy with haughty teasing and denial until he cant help but overthrow me and take the "revenge" I so surely deserve.....!

E




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