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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/7/2006 4:47:14 PM

SirLordTrainer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pinkee

My reading on the "Old Guard" has tended to show this term refers to discharged Second World war veterans, mostly gay, who dressed in leathers, rode motorcycles, and had kinky sex, thus allowing it to filter into the hetero community over time. By now, Second World War veterans are in Their 70's, at least. So a claim of being "Old Guard" by a Man who is say -- 30'ish -- strikes me as mere puffery.

Sounds like you read that Guy Baldwin article too..

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/7/2006 4:53:40 PM

SirLordTrainer

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterWildnHard

Being a Dom is alot like that you have to know the tools and how to use them. Before you can play the music. It takes practice. And it takes work.

Thats the short answer but I couldnt agree more.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/7/2006 5:10:10 PM

KnightofMists

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sab

25 years in and around the world of D/s and still know f*ck all - I am learning with each day that comes. Reading, learning - you NEVER know everything, but you can learn something from a lot of people if you wish to do so.

nods... Today... I know only what I know... tomorrow ... I hope to learn more. Of course... what I know is only good for what it applies to... I can have 30 years experience fixing all types of Cars.... well that is not much good if I am trying to fix a plane.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/8/2006 4:29:37 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

1. When a Dom/me says that they have 10 years experience as a Dominant ... what ... in detail does that tell you about their specific abilities?

Not a whole lot in regards to their abilities. In fact, telling me that they have so many years xp tells me diddly squat about their abilities in ANYTHING.

quote:

2. Since I have been tying girls up since high school and using props and toys during the act of sex (which made me VERY popular with the girls, I might add) ... does that mean that I have 12 years of experience as a Dominant ... even though I didn't know what BDSM was at the time?

Kinky

quote:

3. When someone calls themselves a professional Dom/me ... what ... in detail does that tell you about this person's specific skill set? What about the less common Professional Submissive?

Tells me nothing about their professional skill set. On either side.

quote:

4. What differentiates a professional from everyone else ... besides being paid for it ... and why would my experience with a professional be guaranteed to be better than with anyone else such that I would actually consider paying for it?

A professional gets paid . I don't.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/8/2006 4:44:16 PM

OhReallyNow

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this slave has found that when discussing such things between two or more parties, experience comes to mean a different thing. What one would consider very experienced, the person opposite would see as very little.

for this slave, she is only concerned with xp in regards to how it affects her relationship with her owner. All others are of no concern to her.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/9/2006 10:29:58 AM

fckmeimirish

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First of all ... thanks to you all for taking a moment to discuss this topic with me ... everyone's input was eloquent and useful. The music comment was classic, Iskander ... and perhaps if you have any motivation to change that fact, you have found a suitable mentor.

Most of you have chorused my thoughts on the matter. I've dealt with a great many "experience whores", as Crappydom so colorfully put it, and despite my feeling that I could rock thier socks completely off, I also felt a twinge of doubt because I cannot claim to have 1300 hours a year with the whip in my hand. The more I discuss the topic ... the more I think that experiece is somewhat irrelevant ... and altough those who have a great deal of true experience certainly see some benefit from it ... I think it has more to do with each person's true commitment to play safely and stay within the limits of their own abilities. The whole pursuit is so highly individual that it would be ridiculous to compare yourself to anyone else ... even if the guy can whip the cigarrette out of the mouth of a subby at 10 paces ... its impressive and all, but her rear end is likely a good deal larger a target than a cigarrette ... and if its not you need to feed her, not whip her (chuckles).

I am a CPR certified former lifeguard. I have adaptable weapons skills from my experience with the martial arts that allow me to handle most "implements" a little more competently than the average bear the first time its in my hands. I also am a former pre-med student who decided that the internship hours were greater than my passion for healing, but that doesn't change the fact that I took more anatamoy and physiology classes than the average bear, and I also have a fascination with fitness further augmenting my understanding of physiology and bio-mechanincs. However, technically, by our established definition of experience, I am a BDSM novice. I ask those of you here in the forum to answer another question for me based on the above "mini-resume" ... if I were to present myself as a sane, sexy, fun individual and not a troll, or a desperate psychopath, would you as a Dominant feel comfortable letting me play with one of yours ... or as a submissive letting me put you in shackles? Do I have the necessary skill and knowledge to stop doubting myself in the face of the expereince whores and stand tall among even the more truly experienced Dominants? LA ... I haven't been in the forums too long but you seem to be widely respected ... what's your take?

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/9/2006 10:53:06 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fckmeimirish
if I were to present myself as a sane, sexy, fun individual and not a troll, or a desperate psychopath, would you as a Dominant feel comfortable letting me play with one of yours ... or as a submissive letting me put you in shackles? Do I have the necessary skill and knowledge to stop doubting myself in the face of the expereince whores and stand tall among even the more truly experienced Dominants? LA ... I haven't been in the forums too long but you seem to be widely respected ... what's your take?

Experience is not irrelevant at all. However, simply saying "I've got x years of experience" doesn't really say anything. Experience is measured on many angles and in many ways- which makes it difficult to objectively and thoroughly assess, and yes still remains important.

Like with the age issue as well though- experience isn't EVERYTHING. While relevant, both having a lot and lacking it, "levels" of experience really isn't the issue. It's much more the personality, adaptability, connection, potential to learn and if their specific level of experience will work for where you want to go.

Bluntly I think you have a good start on knowing where you stand, but you also have a common potential problem of ending up with a large chip on your shoulder as well as forming an over-romanticized perspective of what all this means in the long term. I think or would hope that your security will show by how relaxed you are and allowing relationships to simply form as they will.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/9/2006 11:12:55 AM

Mavis

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<giggles> The One who has 13,000 hours a year of whip flight time isn't doing that to hone lifestyle skills, it's also His vanilla sport interest, He competes, etc. my point was only that "experience" varies, more is not always more, and when one starts a relationship with a new person.. both are new to each other, so shortcuts via experience can only carry one so far.

One reason i like to suggest my single friends read the msg boards as opposed to profile hunting or chat rooms, can read someones varied expressions over a span of topics and evaluate silently before even starting an interaction on a personal level. By a lot of what You've written, i would say You're on the more matured side. If it hadn't been for the picture, i might have guessed 30-40's. Ok, the picture screams 17.

Also, keep in mind, Topping skills are vastly different from relationship skills, and understanding what Y/you want in and from a power exchange relationship. One can be "in Love" and can "love and be loved" and be a great companion, and still suck as a lover, sexually. That same can be said of Doms vs topping skills. Physical / topping skills can be learned, some people have a natural instinct for it, some don't but can learn anyway, some will never really get it, but it doesn't always mean their relationships fail over it.

Listing experience level by saying how many sexual partners one had still gives NO impression on if they make a good "boyfriend". i think that's the same with D/s vs S&M.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/9/2006 11:14:23 AM

fckmeimirish

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LA,

I've been seeing more and more of your posts as I have become a bit more involved here in the forums. You're a sexy and thought-provoking woman. I've never even considered switching ... but you're working on my sweet spot a little (winks). In response to your post I would say that I'll be vigilant about the pitfalls you've outlined ... and I don't feel like this world is any different than the vanilla one with regards to how relationships are formed ... albeit they are formed on a bit different set of values. This is one of the things you may have heard me going on about in the forums a couple of months ago. I have come to find that a good deal of the "Dominant" males out there are men who are socially inept and had little success with women in the vanilla world and came here to find woman who were "begging to do what they're told" ... instead of working on the set of socail skills that will allow one to seduce those that you desire. I believe that it is these men who give Dominant males in general a bad name ... and possibly why others are so concerned with with experience level ... falsely thinking that somehow guarantees that this person is not a socially inept bully, or a desperate stalker. I'm neither of these things and have no plans to change into one of them any time soon.

Shawn

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/10/2006 1:50:57 PM

Archer

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There is a difference between stating years of experience and being able to show a verifiable history of activities.
But even with every single vent I've been to, every unch every class every play party they tell a person only one thing for sure when verified
That I've been in and around the scene for a while.

Beyond that it tells them nothing for sure, anything beyond that has to be infered and read between the lines of a conversation.

You gave a small CV and from it I can tell you that it's likely time to quit having the experience chest thumpers hold sway over your growth
Go to some events, parties, etc make some freinds, I know I got my first experiences with floggers in my hands hiting ubmissives who were experienced and had the experience to advise me on how I could make the scene flow better, when I was wrapping, when I was off timeing or off target a bit, slaves and submissives who belonged to someone else or who were known and currently between Dominant and were loooking for a little play time are a ovice Dominant's best freinds. Make the freinds first then start to explore the idea of trying out what you've been reading/ practicing at home with them. Ask them to basicly top from the bottom until your physical skills get to a certain level.
Then have them shift to topping from the bottom on flow of the scene. People scream about topping form the bottom being a bad thing but for a novice it can be a great tool to learn the craft.(BTW this applies to the physical skills of topping more than e mental skills of dominance but has some cross over)

To the specifics of your question "would I allow you to practice on mine?" Maybe with my supervission and negotiation of boundries.
There comes a time when all the reading online or in books has to be put into practice before greater understanding comes. Just from what you have here I'd guess you might be at that point.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/10/2006 2:06:49 PM

fckmeimirish

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mavis

<giggles> The One who has 13,000 hours a year of whip flight time isn't doing that to hone lifestyle skills, it's also His vanilla sport interest, He competes, etc. my point was only that "experience" varies, more is not always more, and when one starts a relationship with a new person.. both are new to each other, so shortcuts via experience can only carry one so far.

One reason i like to suggest my single friends read the msg boards as opposed to profile hunting or chat rooms, can read someones varied expressions over a span of topics and evaluate silently before even starting an interaction on a personal level. By a lot of what You've written, i would say You're on the more matured side. If it hadn't been for the picture, i might have guessed 30-40's. Ok, the picture screams 17.

Also, keep in mind, Topping skills are vastly different from relationship skills, and understanding what Y/you want in and from a power exchange relationship. One can be "in Love" and can "love and be loved" and be a great companion, and still suck as a lover, sexually. That same can be said of Doms vs topping skills. Physical / topping skills can be learned, some people have a natural instinct for it, some don't but can learn anyway, some will never really get it, but it doesn't always mean their relationships fail over it.

Listing experience level by saying how many sexual partners one had still gives NO impression on if they make a good "boyfriend". i think that's the same with D/s vs S&M.

I am 30 years old ... just turned in June ... but you can keep that flattery coming all day Mavis (winks).

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/10/2006 2:58:53 PM

fckmeimirish

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Archer,

I appreciate the thought that has gone into your answer, Archer ... and everyone else who continues to participate in this thread ... thank you all. The negotiation of limits and supervision, to me, seems like a necessity if you're handling your responsibilities as the Dominant, and I would fully expect you to supervise them with someone you know not ... I certainly would do the same ... still I am highly complimented by what you have said (nods humbly).

As far as topping from the bottom. I don't feel at all uncomfortable with constructive feedback ... no matter what the source. The ones who do are, in my opinion, a rather insecure in themselves, and their dominance. That has really been my observation of those that talk the loudest about topping from the bottom ... they strike me as the imperious blowhard types that most of the subs/slaves call trolls. The mental skills of dominance, along with the physical skills of topping, in my humble opinion, can only be refined through the feedback of those that you ply them on ... be it verbal or non-verbal ... and one of the greatest mental skills of dominance, again, in my humble opinion, is observation.

Your advice and direction on where to best seek opportunities to grow is excellent, and I appreciate your willingness to share your experience with me. I plan to put what you have been gracious enough to share to good use.

My best,

Shawn

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/10/2006 3:24:52 PM

KatyLied

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I can't stand it when people boast about their "years of experience in the lifestyle". Someone mentioned the word "puffy" and that is apt, it's like a person puffing their chest out and displaying their kink medals. Pahlease. I'm more interested in the person, not just the kink/lifestyle part of the person. At some point that is important, when determining how we mesh in a kinky lifestyle way, but for me it's no where near the most important thing.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/10/2006 5:01:51 PM

happypervert

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As I learn about something I begin to discover all the things I don't know; many of the comments here also acknowledge that the posters know some things and there's plenty they don't. So the reason I am cynical about the folks thumping their chests about all their many years of experienced is that it seems to me they are implying that they know it all. That might explain this statement by juliaoceania"

"Most dominants that I have talked to that claimed vast amounts of experience became recalcitrant when asked exactly what they meant by this"

I'd guess they have superficial knowledge and are unable to explain what they actually do know, so instead try passing off a number of years as if it were the equivalent of a university degree.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/11/2006 5:30:21 PM

MadRabbit

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So far in my observations of the BDSM community in RT, I have come to learn that there are two types of experience.

One is experience with toys, techinques, bondage, and whatever else that fits into S&M and B&D category. To me, this is experience as a Top, experience with the skills needed for sexual play. This kind of experience is a bit irrevelant to me as a beginning Dominant because you can find it anywhere in the local community and can learn from books and seminars.

The second kind of experience is the kind I actively seek, but is the hardest to find. Life experience. Men and women who understand the responsibility of their chosen paths as Dominants, who have spent years and years learning from their mistakes and worked to perfect themselves and become better people. People who "get" it and undestand just why being a Dominant goes far beyond just sexual play. The people who dont talk about being a Dom and kinky toys, but talk about being a Dom and the character traits needed. Self control, self awareness, compassion, intergrity, honor, trust and respect. The people who have earned their titles of Sir, Master, and Mistress and when people call them these words, they arent simply proclaimed titles or fantasy titles in play.

Learning to be a Top is easy, but learning to be a Dominant is something that stretches across your entire life. The hardest part is finding real Dominants to help you and people who arent simply Tops proclaiming to be Dominants.

But just my two cents.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/11/2006 5:40:07 PM

KatyLied

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quote:

Tops proclaiming to be Dominants.

Yep they are out there. Many of them. And they are a challenge for a sub, because they can't/don't want to/don't know how to exercise authority beyond kinky sex.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/11/2006 5:51:04 PM

juliaoceania

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quote:

Learning to be a Top is easy, but learning to be a Dominant is something that stretches across your entire life. The hardest part is finding real Dominants to help you and people who arent simply Tops proclaiming to be Dominants.

But just my two cents.

Other submissives can teach me about myself, I have much to learn from them... but they cannot broaden my submissiveness, nor can they give me experience in power exchange. I think finding mentor dominants is a wonderful idea, but in my opinion the only way to learn to be a wonderful dominant is through a wonderful submissive. At least that is how it worked for me.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/11/2006 9:34:20 PM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: fckmeimirish

When a Dom/me says that they have 10 years experience as a Dominant ... what ... in detail does that tell you about their specific abilities?

Since I have been tying girls up since high school and using props and toys during the act of sex (which made me VERY popular with the girls, I might add) ... does that mean that I have 12 years of experience as a Dominant ... even though I didn't know what BDSM was at the time?

What differentiates a professional from everyone else ... besides being paid for it?

Learned men can still be blundering fools; such is the curse of knowledge standing without wisdom. Over the years, one can learn the finer points of Shibari or the artful ply of the whip, and yet still lack refinement, imagination and a soundness of human understanding.

As for professionalism, there are many interpretations. I've heard it said that a professional is someone who will do something reliably well even when he or she doesn't feel like it.

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/11/2006 9:59:42 PM

dombill32

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With me and E this is my first attempt at something along the lines of a master/slave 24/7 relationship and this is the first time she has ever been in a relationship like this. Im 33 and she is 43, I never tried it before because I didnt feel like I was ready for something like this until a couple years ago, and for her its something that she has come onto later in life. It has been fantastic for both of us.

Experience was no doubt part of the equation when it came to deciding whether I felt ready to take on the responsibility, but I also think that being with the right person is just as if not more important. Meeting her made the decision whether to take this on a no brainer. She accepted when I asked her and it has just been incredible since, she has no experience but she understands herself and what she wants. We just knew this is what we wanted, it just feels right.

Experience, being with the right person, and being honest with each other all play a big role i think.

< Message edited by dombill32 -- 10/11/2006 10:03:51 PM >

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RE: The definition of experience ... - 10/11/2006 10:01:35 PM

michaelGA2

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the hardest part of experience is...finding it. this seems to be an impossible task and can become very disheartening. i wonder why i keep trying sometimes.

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