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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 5:57:26 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

My biggest problem with Bush is the Jose Padilla case, Bush's
refusal to give the captured suspects a fair trial.


........and YOU could be next with Bush's NEW law that Just passed.

The ENABLING ACT

HR 6166

"Yale Law Professor Bruce Ackerman states in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

Similarly, law Professor Marty Lederman explains: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."



< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/8/2006 6:02:19 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to WhipTheHip)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 6:05:43 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Even HITLER couldn't get away with tyrranical legislation like the pieces Bush has passed.

http://www.trueamericanpatriots.com/HR6166.html

Bush has essentially declared himself Fuhrer.

Don't laugh....but if you disagree wwith the government now...you MAY be labeled as
an "enemy combatant".

They are even getting rid of the writ of Habeus Corpus.

Will they do it?

Time will tell...but its now on the books.

American citizens HAVE already been charged under the Patriot act remember or put on NO-FLY lists if they are considered "subversives".



< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/8/2006 6:09:42 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 6:20:13 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: krys

Are you wearing a tin foil hat by any chance?


I feel the need to be a voice of reason in these dark times.

An article in Popular Mechanics (or Science) last year provided proof that
aluminum foil enhances radio frequencies which are reserved by the US Government.

What this means is that the Government is attempting to spread false rumors
that wearing a tin foil hat will prevent them from reading your mind, when the
exact opposite is true.

Recycle your aluminum.

Down with The Man!

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to krys)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 6:35:10 PM   
subfever


Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I think You Tube is a terrific multi-media resource.

Which is wwhy Google is about to pay a billion dollars for it to try and control its content.


My guess is that Google wants to buy You Tube primarily because it smells future profits, more so than controlling its content. 

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 6:51:05 PM   
Sinergy


Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

you rely Far too much on youtube



I do?

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


(in reply to swtnsparkling)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:15:11 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline 		sissifytoserve: Oh my godyou are making this too easy.

Actually, you’ve FAILED to prove that (1) you are a constitutionalist and (2) that the administration is destroying the constitution.

sissifytoserve: The Bush Administration is totally RAPING and evicerating the constitution...

Actually, no he is not.  Your collection of other people’s analysis and bills in progress does not amount to proof that the Bush Administration is raping and eviscerating the constitution.

sissifytoserve: Hes making even Clinton seem Conservative by comparrison........

None of your sources indicate that.  I will demonstrate that with my rebuttals.

quote:



Tommy Franks: Martial Law Will Replace Constitution After Next Terror Attack

Newsmax
Friday, Nov. 21, 2003

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

Franks, who successfully led the U.S. military operation to liberate Iraq under President Bush, expressed his worries in an extensive interview he gave to the men's lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.



First things first.  You do realize that this is one man’s opinion, do you? “Will likely” is not the same as “WILL” by itself.  This is not proof that the Administration IS “raping” and “eviscerating” the constitution.  NEXT…

quote:

DOMESTIC SECURITY AND ENHANCEMENT ACT

The second Patriot Act is much worse than the first...and they didn't want you to know about It until after they had sprung an attack. Click here to read the full document that John Ashcroft publicly stated didn't exist.

PDF: http://www.prisonplanet.com/patriot2-hi.pdf


I don’t want someone’s analysis.  I want to see the actual wording of the document and judge for myself what it is saying.  I’ve scoured the first patriot act, and found nothing resembling the doom and gloom the others associated with it.

quote:

PATRIOT ACT II ANALYSIS

http://www.infowars.com/print_patriotact2_analysis.htm


OK, I’ve gone through and all I saw was what SOMEONE else said about the contents.  I did not see the actual wording of the Patriot II.  I don’t want someone telling me what he thinks about the act.  I want to see it myself and make my own judgement. 

Someone’s opinion.  Does not constitute eroding the constitution.  NEXT…

quote:

S.89 UNIVERSAL NATIONAL SERVICE ACT OF 2003

Requires that all young persons in the United States perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/universal_national_service.html


(1) This is not a violation of the constitution.  If the legislative branch passes this and the president signs it into law, then it becomes law of the land, supported by the constitution.  However, from what I understand, this did not make it.  A similar attempt made in the house FAILED. 

I know allot of people that are young who are not serving.  NEXT…

quote:

S 22: JUSTICE ENHANCEMENT AND DOMESTIC SECURITY ACT OF 2003

Total nightmare takeover bill, an almost identical clone of Patriot Act II introduced at the same time.

PDF: http://www.prisonplanet.com/s22.pdf


Go ahead, read down.  It says A BILL.  Not even a law.  Does not amount to the administration CURRENTLY raping and eviscerating the constitution.

quote:

H.R. 4757: OUR LADY OF PEACE ACT

Bill will requires states to turn over volumes of records to the FBI for use with Instantcheck. Includes any state record that would show if a person is prohibited from owning a gun. This will include mental health records.

PDF: http://www.prisonplanet.com/hr4757.pdf


Do you see what I have highlighted in red? Starting to see an emerging pattern here?  You are accusing the administration of CURRENTLY raping and eviscerating the constitution.  As proof, you are presenting to me bills and OTHER people’s OPINIONS of certain laws.  Sorry, this DOES NOT prove your claims that the Administration IS eviscerating the constitution.  NEXT…

quote:

Americans Target of Massive Domestic Spying Network

Sue Bushell, CIO

27/06/2006 10:41:56

In the US that would make the best custodian of telephone records the telephony companies. It is not yet clear how well those principles have been observed by the US government under its massive domestic surveillance program, yet American's privacy has been put under serious threat nevertheless. USA Today revealed last month that the National Security Agency (NSA) has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using data provided by "best custodians" AT&T, Verizon and BellSouth.

USA Today claimed the program reached into homes and businesses across the nation by amassing information about the calls of ordinary Americans - few of them suspected of any crime. While the NSA has apparently not been listening to or recording conversations, it has been using the data to analyze calling patterns in an effort to detect terrorist activity, according to USA Today sources.


Do you see the red statement? How about the word that I have underlined? Do you see it?

They are using ONLY what they need to check for patterns.  That is a REASONABLE search.  NEXT….

quote:

****

All About NSA's and AT&T's Big Brother Machine, the Narus 6400

by bewert

Fri Apr 07, 2006 at 10:47:24 PM PDT

Earlier today we found out that the EFF had sued AT&T over their secret work with the NSA on surveillance of millions of US citizens without wiretaps. We learned that paragraph 65 of this complaint shows EFF is trying to turn it into a nationwide Class Action suit covering all current and former customers (any after 9/2001) of AT&T. And we learned that a retired AT&T technician had stepped forward and disclosed the installation of secret NSA spy equipment in the San Francisco trunk facility. As well as the belief that similar equipment is in place in Seattle, San Jose, Los Angeles and San Diego.

Read more here:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/8/14724/28476


There is precedence that helps the federal government’s case.  This case threatens to expose classified information.  This search is reasonable and is in pursuit of terrorist activities.  The case has not been resolved yet.  Since this has precedence, this is hardly one of the administration CURRENTLY eviscerating the constitution.  NEXT….

quote:

***

US plans massive data sweep

The Christian Science Monitor | February 9 2006
By Mark Clayton

The US government is developing a massive computer system that can collect huge amounts of data and, by linking far-flung information from blogs and e-mail to government records and intelligence reports, search for patterns of terrorist activity.

The system - parts of which are operational, parts of which are still under development - is already credited with helping to foil some plots. It is the federal government's latest attempt to use broad data-collection and powerful analysis in the fight against terrorism. But by delving deeply into the digital minutiae of American life, the program is also raising concerns that the government is intruding too deeply into citizens' privacy.


This system is designed to search for specific data.  The operators enter specific search parameters.  The system does the search.  Not a bad idea.  As long as they are searching for terrorist activity, they would not know your personal data.  That would not show up if it is not a part of their search parameters. 

This is just bringing law enforcement into the 21st century.  Does not raise to raping our constitution.  “IS NEXT” - 1980’s commercial parodying the Soviets.

quote:

***

Bush acknowledges secret order for domestic spying

31 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -
President George W. Bush on Saturday acknowledged he signed a secret order after the September 11, 2001, attacks to allow the surveillance of people in the United States.

In a rare live radio address, Bush defended the practice as a "vital tool" in defending the United States against another such attack.

The presidential order was first reported in The New York Times on Friday. The report said the order allowed the National Security Agency to track international telephone calls and e-mails of hundreds of people without the court approval normally required for domestic spying.


Go back and read one of my earlier posts.  There is a law that specifically authorizes that.  The president CAN authorize warrantless searches under certain conditions.  What I’ve highlighted in red is backed by law.  This falls under REASONABLE searches.  The constitution covers UNREASONABLE searches.  AGAIN, this does not amount to the administration CURRENTLY raping the constitution. 

As I’ve predicted, you’ve FAILED to prove that the administration is “destroying” the constitution.  All you’ve done was bring up bills that were considered, mentioned what OTHER people have said, and brought up isolated cases that were DEBATABLE. 

Some of your own references worked against your argument.  Thank you for making it easy for me to prove my point.

sissifytoserve:  I could keep going......
 
If it is going to be a continued DISMAL failure to prove your point, don’t bother wasting your time and my time.  I predict that any future attempt will reflect this current failed attempt.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:16:12 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline 		sissifytoserve: Hillary is a shill...and completely behind the Neo-Con agenda.

That is why she has criticized many aspects of this “neo con” agenda, right?

sissifytoserve: If she wants to save her job in Politics she has to be for the war.

You are dodging the question that I asked you.  Yes or NO, was the above statement in what you quoted a factual statement or not?

sissifytoserve: I have NO idea what Saddam did with Al quaeda....but i will not trust a politician to tell me the truth about it.

Well, you don’t have to just take their word for it.  Numerous books also point out to what Saddam did with Al-Qaeda.  Those guys are writers that did extensive research on their subjects.  Not politicians. 

sissifytoserve: I do know that Bin Laden did NOT like Saddam as he wasn't "ISLAMIC" enough.  

“An enemy of my enemy is my friend” - Arab saying. 

See the fallacy of your line of reasoning? 

Here is another fallacy of your line of reasoning.  Members of Al-Qaeda violated what their religion expected of them and were not quite ISLAMIC enough either.  They partied, drank, and frequented places that were frowned upon by their religion. 

sissifytoserve: I DO know OUR GOVERNMENT "AIDED TERRORIST SADDAM" by supplying him wwith WMDs in the Early 80s.

WRONG.  We did not supply him with WMD at ANY time.  Saddam had his own WMD program that he had developed since the 70’s.

(in reply to herfacechair)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:19:35 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

My biggest problem with Bush is the Jose Padilla case, Bush's
refusal to give the captured suspects a fair trial.


........and YOU could be next with Bush's NEW law that Just passed.

The ENABLING ACT

HR 6166

"Yale Law Professor Bruce Ackerman states in the L.A. Times, "The compromise legislation....authorizes the president to seize American citizens as enemy combatants, even if they have never left the United States. And once thrown into military prison, they cannot expect a trial by their peers or any other of the normal protections of the Bill of Rights."

Similarly, law Professor Marty Lederman explains: "this [subsection (ii) of the definition of 'unlawful enemy combatant'] means that if the Pentagon says you're an unlawful enemy combatant -- using whatever criteria they wish -- then as far as Congress, and U.S. law, is concerned, you are one, whether or not you have had any connection to 'hostilities' at all."




You see, this is precisely what I was talking about.  You are more content with going by what other people say, instead of investigating for yourself what is being said.

The actual definition of an unlawful enemy combatant. 

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/10/01/18317060.php

quote:

`(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means--

`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or

`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.


Put side by side with your article, it paints a different picture.  This is why I like to look at the actual text.  Just as you don’t trust the word of any politician, I don’t trust the word of many of the people that you reference.  Judging by this post, rightly so.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:22:26 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Even HITLER couldn't get away with tyrranical legislation like the pieces Bush has passed.

http://www.trueamericanpatriots.com/HR6166.html


For anybody that has actually READ the bill in question and who has studied Hitler’s history, this is a bunch of bunk.

sissifytoserve: Bush has essentially declared himself Fuhrer.

No he hasn’t.

sissifytoserve:  Don't laugh....but if you disagree wwith the government now...you MAY be labeled as an "enemy combatant".

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/10/01/18317060.php

quote:

`(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT- (A) The term `unlawful enemy combatant' means--

`(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who has purposefully and materially supported hostilities against the United States or its co-belligerents who is not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces); or

`(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006, has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent tribunal established under the authority of the President or the Secretary of Defense.


Par (1)(A)(ii) is limited by Par (1)(A)(i).

sissifytoserve:  They are even getting rid of the writ of Habeus Corpus . . . Will they do it? . . . Time will tell...but its now on the books.

WRONG.  They are not getting rid of the writ of Habeus Corpus.  What is actually in the books:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/10/01/18317060.php

quote:

SEC. 7. HABEAS CORPUS MATTERS.

(a) In General- Section 2241 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by striking both the subsection (e) added by section 1005(e)(1) of Public Law 109-148 (119 Stat. 2742) and the subsection (e) added by added by section 1405(e)(1) of Public Law 109-163 (119 Stat. 3477) and inserting the following new subsection (e):

`(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.

`(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801 note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any other action against the United States or its agents relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained by the United States and has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.'.

(b) Effective Date- The amendment made by subsection (a) shall take effect on the date of the enactment of this Act, and shall apply to all cases, without exception, pending on or after the date of the enactment of this Act which relate to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of detention of an alien detained by the United States since September 11, 2001.


sissifytoserve:  American citizens HAVE already been charged under the Patriot act remember or put on NO-FLY lists if they are considered "subversives".

Thank god that they are keeping tabs on home grown or home based terrorists.

(in reply to herfacechair)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:25:41 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		I let the RESEARCHER make that determination if Bush's laws are violating the constitution.

He definately is.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wrhmt/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&search=patriot+act&x=0&y=0


SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM. USA PATRIOT ACT



(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331;'.

dangerous to human life?

Like Speeding?

HMMMMM

Very UNCONSTITUTIONALif you ask me.

But thats just one section.

But you will ignore that...just like the rest of the links i provided because your mind is already made up.

Bush is honest.

The sky is purple.

The world is flat.

Liberty bad on Bizzaro world

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:40:10 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I let the RESEARCHER make that determination if Bush's laws are violating the constitution.

He definately is.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wrhmt/mt/mt-search.cgi?IncludeBlogs=1&search=patriot+act&x=0&y=0


That is the difference between the two of us.  You would rather throw yourself at the mercy of someone's opinion than to look at the raw data yourself and come up with your own conclusions.  I chose to look at the raw data myself and come up with my own conclusions.  What I've found is that the actual document paints a different picture than what many doom sayers say it says.  Pardon me if I don't let someone dictate how I think about these matters.

quote:

SEC. 802. DEFINITION OF DOMESTIC TERRORISM. USA PATRIOT ACT



(a) DOMESTIC TERRORISM DEFINED- Section 2331 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1)(B)(iii), by striking `by assassination or kidnapping' and inserting `by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping';

(2) in paragraph (3), by striking `and';

(3) in paragraph (4), by striking the period at the end and inserting `; and'; and

(4) by adding at the end the following:

`(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

`(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

`(B) appear to be intended--

`(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

`(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

`(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

`(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 3077(1) of title 18, United States Code, is amended to read as follows:

`(1) `act of terrorism' means an act of domestic or international terrorism as defined in section 2331;'.


sissifytoserve: dangerous to human life? Like Speeding? HMMMMM  Very UNCONSTITUTIONALif you ask me.

Read the red section of the quote.  If you read FURTHER, you will see clarification to dangerous to human life. Do you see the underlined criteria? You are seeing what YOU want to see. 

You can't read out of that what you want to read out of that.  That quote does not just talk about ANY dangerous act.  It specifies those acts. 

sissifytoserve: But thats just one section.

Yup, just one of many sections that is constantly misinterpreted.

sissifytoserve: But you will ignore that...just like the rest of the links i provided

The only thing that I ignored was YOUR assumption of what they entailed.  You TRIED to use those links to prove your point.  After I looked at those links, they DID NOT show someone in the process of raping our constitution. 

sissifytoserve: because your mind is already made up.

My mind is going to stick with where logical reasoning will lead it to.  Garbage and trash will not get me to abandon what critical thinking presents to me.  Nor will it get me to abandon what the facts tell me.

Before you accuse me of "having my mind mind up", look at your own conduct.  You stubbornly plow on with your theories after they have repeatedly been proven wrong.  You refuse to entertain simple questions - questions whose simple answers will prove your argument wrong. 

sissifytoserve: Bush is honest.

So far, what he has stated matches what I've researched, studied, learned, and experienced.  I have seen no PROOF that he has lied about Iraq, the War on Terrorism, or other foreign policy issue, just baseless rhetoric.

sissifytoserve: The sky is purple. . . The world is flat . . . Liberty bad on Bizzaro world

Now THIS is consistent with your argument.  

< Message edited by herfacechair -- 10/8/2006 7:49:51 PM >

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:48:01 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		OH!! I forgot...one more piece of Stalinist Bush legislation ALSO passed a while back.

the REAL ID ACT


Hope you have your NATIONAL ID card ready at one of Bush's checkpoints...coming to a neighborhood near you.

MAY I SEE YOUR PAPERS PLEASE COMMRADE?


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR00418:@@@L&summ2=m&

How the REAL ID act will effect you.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/



BUT THE BORDER STAYS WIDE OPEN.

< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/8/2006 7:54:09 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to herfacechair)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 7:52:39 PM   
sissifytoserve


Posts: 1016
Joined: 8/30/2006
Status: offline 		Umm....for REFERENCE.


Section (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;


A VIOLATION OF ANY FEDERAL OR STATE LAW MAKES YOU A DOMESTIC TERRORIST THAT MAY BE CONSIDERED "A DANGER TO HUMAN LIFE"

Blocking a road

Throwing an egg

Speeding.

The list is long i'm sure.

But whatever.

Interpret it how the AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE and FOX NEWS tells you.



< Message edited by sissifytoserve -- 10/8/2006 7:53:08 PM >

_____________________________

A great mind must be androgynous
Samuel Coleridge

The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

(in reply to sissifytoserve)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:01:31 PM   
herfacechair


Posts: 1046
Joined: 8/29/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

OH!! I forgot...one more piece of Stalinist Bush legislation ALSO passed a while back.

the REAL ID ACT


Hope you have your NATIONAL ID card ready at one of Bush's checkpoints...coming to a neighborhood near you.

MAY I SEE YOUR PAPERS PLEASE COMMRADE?


http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR00418:@@@L&summ2=m&

How the REAL ID act will effect you.

http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/



BUT THE BORDER STAYS WIDE OPEN.

Again, going through the write up, I did not see anything sinister.  For instance, look at what I found.  From your link:
 
 
And yet another thing that I've found:
 
 
This DEALS with our borders.  AGAIN.  An examination of the actual text does not support your rantings.  I would not be surprised if the final result is not much different in terms of being a practical solution to our border and security situation.








                  (in reply to sissifytoserve)
                  Profile   Post #: 114
                  RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:08:12 PM   
                  herfacechair


                  Posts: 1046
                  Joined: 8/29/2004
                  Status: offline
                  quote:

                  ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

                  Umm....for REFERENCE.


                  Section (A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;


                  A VIOLATION OF ANY FEDERAL OR STATE LAW MAKES YOU A DOMESTIC TERRORIST THAT MAY BE CONSIDERED "A DANGER TO HUMAN LIFE"

                  Blocking a road

                  Throwing an egg

                  Speeding.

                  The list is long i'm sure.

                  But whatever.

                  Interpret it how the AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE and FOX NEWS tells you.




                  `(5) the term `domestic terrorism' means activities that--

                  `(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

                  `(B) appear to be intended--

                  `(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

                  `(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

                  `(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

                  `(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.'.

                  What part of the very text that you quoted DON’T you understand?

                  WHERE, in that quote, does it define dangerous act as “blocking the road, throwing an egg, speeding, etc?

                  The list is not very long.  It is right there.  You’ve quoted it. 

                  sissifytoserve:  Interpret it how the AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE and FOX NEWS tells you.

                  I am interpreting it they way it is written.  It is right there, in black and white.
                  It does not support what you WANT to see.                    


                  < Message edited by herfacechair -- 10/8/2006 8:09:30 PM >

                  (in reply to sissifytoserve)
                  Profile   Post #: 115
                  RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:10:39 PM   
                  sissifytoserve


                  Posts: 1016
                  Joined: 8/30/2006
                  Status: offline                   		The "final result" of the NATIONAL ID CARD (stalin would be proud) is just one more way the GOVERNMENT
                  can interfere with your life and reduce your liberties.

                  Period.

                  _____________________________

                  A great mind must be androgynous
                  Samuel Coleridge

                  The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

                  (in reply to herfacechair)
                  Profile   Post #: 116
                  RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:12:54 PM   
                  sissifytoserve


                  Posts: 1016
                  Joined: 8/30/2006
                  Status: offline
                  quote:

                  ORIGINAL: herfacechair



                  I am interpreting it they way it is written. It is right there, in black and white.
                  It does not support what you WANT to see.



                  No YOU are reading the way YOU want to reaad it.

                  I see it as TYRANNY on paper....unconstitutional at that.

                  _____________________________

                  A great mind must be androgynous
                  Samuel Coleridge

                  The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

                  (in reply to herfacechair)
                  Profile   Post #: 117
                  RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:14:54 PM   
                  herfacechair


                  Posts: 1046
                  Joined: 8/29/2004
                  Status: offline
                  quote:

                  ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

                  The "final result" of the NATIONAL ID CARD (stalin would be proud) is just one more way the GOVERNMENT can interfere with your life and reduce your liberties.

                  Period.


                  I could care less about a terrorist's liberties.  What you've provided indicates that these laws are intended to further frustrate terrorists efforts against us.

                  (in reply to sissifytoserve)
                  Profile   Post #: 118
                  RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:18:15 PM   
                  herfacechair


                  Posts: 1046
                  Joined: 8/29/2004
                  Status: offline
                  quote:

                  ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

                  quote:

                  ORIGINAL: herfacechair



                  I am interpreting it they way it is written. It is right there, in black and white.
                  It does not support what you WANT to see.



                  No YOU are reading the way YOU want to reaad it.

                  I see it as TYRANNY on paper....unconstitutional at that.


                  This coming from the guy that ignores the specifications of dangers to human life, takes the text out of context, and INVENTS meanings behind what the act is actually saying.  

                  Your opinion about it constituting tyranny is noted.  But I don't see it as being unconstitutional.  It is putting common sense in 21st century law enforcement.                   

                  (in reply to sissifytoserve)
                  Profile   Post #: 119
                  RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/8/2006 8:19:10 PM   
                  sissifytoserve


                  Posts: 1016
                  Joined: 8/30/2006
                  Status: offline
                  quote:

                  ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve



                  American citizens HAVE already been charged under the Patriot act remember or put on NO-FLY lists if they are considered "subversives".




                  You approve of this?



                  quote:

                  herfacechair: Thank god that they are keeping tabs on home grown or home based terrorists.


                  Depends on who defines what a "terrorist" is.

                  According to the Patriot act...just about any American citizen can be singled out if you meet the governmeents VAGUE description of a "terrorist".

                  Secretly arrested

                  Secretly detained

                  Secretly executed.

                  Thats right

                  Probably over in Bushs Overseas CIA torture facilities.

                  _____________________________

                  A great mind must be androgynous
                  Samuel Coleridge

                  The uniting of the feminine and the masculine is the highest form of human development Carl Jung

                  (in reply to sissifytoserve)
                  Profile   Post #: 120
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