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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/9/2006 12:00:44 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai: as per being in the military, I didn't say they were, I said they were in the chain of comman, which anyone knowledgable would know that the top three dogs there are the president, vice president and the secretary of defense, who are traditionally not military, dumb ass

Once again, you are missing my point jackass! As I indicated last night, I was using chain of command in relation to the people at both GITMO and Abu Grahb (sp).  As in GITMO Chain of Command and Abu Grahb (sp) Chain of Command.  As in the Chain of Command WITHIN GITMO and Abu Grahb.  Got it?

Like I said today.  My use of chain of command in this sense was meant for every knuckle head from the detainee handlers to their installation commanders.
 

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/9/2006 12:01:51 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai: sissifytoserve . . . . you have it right,  yet there are some who say that 1936 germany is not an anology.

It isn’t.  See my rebuttal to your post where I took brown shirt activities and compared them to what is happening today.  BIG difference.  Anybody that claims that there IS a parallel between the two is guilty of inductive fallacy.

Dorsai:  instead of jews, now its muslims, in particular iraqi or afghani . ....

There are many Muslims who are enjoying freedom and respect in the United States.  Practicing professions in this country without harassment by the government.  There are even Iraqi and Afghani who are enjoying these freedoms here.  It is the terrorists that are facing allot of obstacles.

Oh, and check this out:


http://www.epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html

quote:


SEC. 102. SENSE OF CONGRESS CONDEMNING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST ARAB AND MUSLIM AMERICANS.

(a) FINDINGS- Congress makes the following findings:

(1) Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia play a vital role in our Nation and are entitled to nothing less than the full rights of every American.

(2) The acts of violence that have been taken against Arab and Muslim Americans since the September 11, 2001, attacks against the United States should be and are condemned by all Americans who value freedom.

(3) The concept of individual responsibility for wrongdoing is sacrosanct in American society, and applies equally to all religious, racial, and ethnic groups.

(4) When American citizens commit acts of violence against those who are, or are perceived to be, of Arab or Muslim descent, they should be punished to the full extent of the law.

(5) Muslim Americans have become so fearful of harassment that many Muslim women are changing the way they dress to avoid becoming targets.

(6) Many Arab Americans and Muslim Americans have acted heroically during the attacks on the United States, including Mohammed Salman Hamdani, a 23-year-old New Yorker of Pakistani descent, who is believed to have gone to the World Trade Center to offer rescue assistance and is now missing.

(b) SENSE OF CONGRESS- It is the sense of Congress that--


(1) the civil rights and civil liberties of all Americans, including Arab Americans, Muslim Americans, and Americans from South Asia, must be protected, and that every effort must be taken to preserve their safety;

(2) any acts of violence or discrimination against any Americans be condemned; and

(3) the Nation is called upon to recognize the patriotism of fellow citizens from all ethnic, racial, and religious backgrounds.


Nope, no parallel to the NAZI’s there.

Dorsai: the right wing always needs a scape goat.  yes?

No need for a scape goat when we have real threats that we are dealing with.  Our pointing that out to the left wingers is NOT scape goatting.  I simply call it pointing reality out.

Dorsai: the bill of rights ceased to exist on 9/11

The bill of rights is alive and well NOW as it was before 9/11.

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/9/2006 12:03:02 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai:  further, george avenged his "daddy" and now has that evil assassin in the world court . . . .was a trumpted up accusaion of an assasionation of another bush worth over 2000 american lives?

Inductive fallacy at work again.  Had it not been for the events of 9/11 waking us up to the geo strategic realities facing us, we would not have gone into Iraq.  If it was about revenge, preparations would have been made BEFORE 9/11.  And not just the contingency plans that the Pentagon comes up with for these countries. 

This is not about “avenging” an assassination attempt.  This is about dealing with an asymmetrical threat.  Iraq was the logical second front on the War on Terrorism.


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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/9/2006 12:04:28 PM   
herfacechair


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WHEW! This is LOTS of fun! see you guys tomorrow!

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/9/2006 7:35:54 PM   
dorsaisgirl1


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its becouse of people like you that george bush got re elected .............
thats not a complament

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/9/2006 10:23:55 PM   
trannysub007


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herfacechair seems to have a deep seated need to be right, and will apparently stop at nothing to be so. Just as the USA cannot win the war in Iraq, one cannot win a debate when one of the people debating is NEVER wrong. 

< Message edited by trannysub007 -- 10/9/2006 10:26:41 PM >

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 4:29:22 AM   
krys


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quote:

ORIGINAL: herfacechair
Still not addressing the debate. 

 
*Sigh*  Is there any point? 
 
I find politics interesting, I find how the administration twisted the facts to put fear into the hearts of Americans, and the way in which you not only seem to embrace it but actually seem to wallow and hold pride in being fooled, both scientifically fascinating and profoundly sad. 
 
On May 30, 2003, Bush stated "President George W Bush tells Polish TV: "We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories... we’ve so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."
 
However, on the same day, Lt. General James Conway, USMC stated:  "It was a surprise to me then, it remains a surprise to me now, that we have not uncovered weapons... in some of the forward dispersal sites. Again, believe me, it’s not for lack of trying. We’ve been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they’re simply not there... We were simply wrong."
 
I tend to believe and respect the guys that are actually risking their lives than a man looking to preserve his presidential legacy. 

_____________________________

Krys

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 5:13:40 AM   
swtnsparkling


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quote:

one cannot win a debate when one of the people debating is NEVER wrong. 

There are an awful lot who post around here- determinded that They are Never Wrong and speak as if they knew all the Facts ( perhaps they were flies on the wall in the oval office or war room and know every detail of every decision that they are only privy too)
I dont find Herfacechair  saying he is never wrong- I see a person posting info refuting other things said- this for me makes good reading I like seeing what  the opinions are from BOTH sides.

_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 7:10:25 AM   
mnottertail


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Just landed here, this is a general condemnation of ill-conceived and reprehensible peeping and muttering in the guise of intelligence.
 
Assaults on Law Enforcement Officers: Hearings Before the Subcommittee to Investigate the...
By United States. Congress. Senate. Judiciary
 


Several other obviously contradictory and flawed reasonings have been proffered.  It so far has not been a debate in the real sense of debate, but rather a pedantic and invalid as well as illogical refutation of any stance anyone else may have.

There are three branches of government, the EXECUTIVE (carry out:  think of it as purely political and self-interested), the legislative  and the judiciary.....there is a system of checks and balances that prevents most of the spilling over into other areas.

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
 
note that it does not say enforce.
 
I went to school that day and learned this, it was a thursday, they had sloppy joes...........no sloppy joes at your school I see.


The difficulty with refuting everything and anything that is stated (especially when the refutation is terribly incorrect) is that it isn't going to be a long time before you disagree with yourself publicly.

Additionally; some of us alive today are extremely glad that we didn't have to 'win' alot of hamburger hills.

Other than that, I believe that  most of the refutations have actually further buttressed my points.

The exhibition of the logic and intelligence of a common  ice cube is rather unremarkable and considerably tiring.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 8:41:31 AM   
Amaros


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WhipTheHip

I was against impeaching Nixon.  I don't think Nixon
should have been impeached.  I do think Regan should
have been impeached. 

I think it was a great thing this nation impeached Clinton.
This kept him from focusing on unimportant things like
al-Quieda.  If our nation hadn't been so focused on
Monica Lewinsky, we might have been able to avert
9-11, but clearly what Clinton did with Monica Lewinsky
was more important than our national defense.


This is the current RNC line, to try to squirm out from under their current embarassment - Personally I could give and order to find bin Laden while getting a blow job, and I'm sure Clinton couldn't have gotten to where he was without being a multitasker.

The fact remains, Clinton did put a high priority on neutralizing and tracking bin Laden, tracing the finacial network, etc., the republicans did not, despite repeated warnings - what the fuck were they doing, you have to wonder?

Getting blow jobs from the Saudis, I suspect.

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 10:50:57 AM   
trannysub007


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quote:

ORIGINAL: swtnsparkling

quote:

one cannot win a debate when one of the people debating is NEVER wrong. 

There are an awful lot who post around here- determinded that They are Never Wrong and speak as if they knew all the Facts ( perhaps they were flies on the wall in the oval office or war room and know every detail of every decision that they are only privy too)
I dont find Herfacechair  saying he is never wrong- I see a person posting info refuting other things said- this for me makes good reading I like seeing what  the opinions are from BOTH sides.


i didn't say he said he is never wrong. He does, however, tell others that they are wrong, using information that might not be any more accurate than the information the 'wrong' person used. Also, a person's opinion about something is neither right nor wrong. It simply is.  He stated on numerous occasions that the other person's opinions were wrong, and posted his own. What i get from that is that he feels his opinions are right.  i'm willing to be wrong about this, but he seems to have a need to be right.    

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 11:51:18 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaros

Getting blow jobs from the Saudis, I suspect.



My money is on giving one to them.

"President George W. Bush has always struck me as a man who would ask a woman for a hand job on the first date.  Some days she says yes, some days she says no.  Today was one of the "no" days."  Matt Taibbi, Rolling Stone

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle


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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 12:50:10 PM   
swtnsparkling


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good reading -I like seeing what  the opinions are from BOTH sides.



_____________________________

Never make anyone a priority who treats you as an option 2003

Walk in Peace
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better than a "Yes" uttered merely to please



(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 173
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 1:06:37 PM   
mnottertail


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Uh,  I just noticed that some text didn't get transferred from the Senate Judicary Document.  The part where they said the Attorney General was the highest law enforcement officer in the land. But that is only their opinion.

Ron 

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


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Profile   Post #: 174
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 2:31:31 PM   
herfacechair


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sissifytoserve:...and now its been revealed that there is ALSO a secret CIA detention center at a german Military base.

Now THAT is a national security violation leak that should be under investigation.  Unlike the Valerie Plame case, where practically “everybody and his brother” knew that Valerie was with the CIA.

sissifytoserve:.WHO KNOWS might be there besides "Arab terrorists". Could be your neighbor.

Just Arab terrorists.  The Patriot Act does not provide for the CIA to take people from the USA for interrogation overseas.

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Profile   Post #: 175
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 2:32:32 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai:.exactly what crimes in what country did all those in guantanamo bay comitt? (sp)

Doing things like shooting at our troops in the battlefield.

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Profile   Post #: 176
RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 2:34:02 PM   
herfacechair


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dorsai

well, honestly doubt that any severe things are going on in thos two places, too obvious. *S* but there have been leaks of outright tortures occuring in other ;places . . .up to and including turning "prisoners" over to countries than specialize in torture techniques. btw . . .exactly what crimes in what country did all those in guantanamo bay comitt? (sp)


Umm....

I think you better have a look at these from Abu Graib.

Hope you have a strong stomach.

http://www.antiwar.com/news/?articleid=2444

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/index2.htm


Many of these people are innocent picked up in "SWEEPS"of "suspected insurgents".

Basically about 70+% of them more than likely are goat herders basically.


WARNING....THESE are really graphic.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/index.htm

But THIS is the example we are setting for "freedom and Democracy"?

Bullshit


Negative on the “goat herder” nonsense.  These clowns are thugs and murderers who were firing at our troops.  They were also traced down as people responsible for terror attacks on our troops.

“But THIS is the example we are setting for "freedom and Democracy"? - sissifytoserve

No, that is not the example of freedom and democracy that is being set.  Those participating in that violated military policy on the handling of detainees.  The people involved were sent to Court Martial.  That is NOT representative of what the U.S. military does over there. 

Judging the military by the actions of a few bad apples is idiotic at best, disrespectful to our troops at worse. 



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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 2:35:31 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai: my point was that they aren't citizens of the u.s. (notice I dont' capitalize that) so couldn't have fallen under u.s law juridiction . . . . .hence,  being held illigally .

This is not a law enforcement matter where we are dealing with police actions.  This is WAR, where we have foreign hostiles that are captured on the battle field.  They are now the military’s detainees.  Many of them hold important information that our theater commanders need. 

They are not being held illegally.  To hell with releasing these clowns so that they could go back to trying to murder people and attack our military.


Dorsai: . . only now they are muslims, not jews in '36 germany. yes?

Again, this is inductive fallacy.  You are comparing apples to oranges.  These murderers and thugs were not some innocent bystander that was snatched up because they were Muslims.  Heck, many of those being picked up now are being picked up in the hands of the Iraqi National Guard and their police.  They were captured on the battle field as they were firing at our forces.  They were also captured as a result of intelligence linking them to terrorism.

Dorsai: btw . . I think we're on the same side here, and sure to be investigated by the anti-terrorest squads. i've a loaded weopen, a pellot gun. hahahahaha

Unless you are ACTUALLY involved with terrorism, you don’t have anything to worry about.  Expressing your views alone - as useful as they are to the enemy’s cause as they are - is not enough to cause you to be investigated and followed.

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 2:36:58 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai: this is a country than thinks reagan was a freaking geneous . . .

He was.  His policies played a large role in toppling the Soviet Empire.  Many people hold him in high esteem in Eastern Europe and Russia because of this. 

Dorsai: .and elected two bushes,

Good move.  Electing the second Bush was a perfect way to “correct” the errors we made in 1992 and 1996.

Dorsai: and the second has installed all his buddies, including creating offices and such for some, . . . .

This is something that happens with every presidency.  What else is new?

Dorsai: wonderful country that "elects" such ;people . .

Looking back at Slick Willie’s term, I see what you mean here.  It could have been worse.  John Kerry could have been president. 

Dorsai: .I know my parents and their generation weren't so forgiving of germans for allowing hitler to have the same power and status.

And I know that Bush is NO Hitler.  Apples and oranges comparison.

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RE: Clinton, Monica and 9/11 - 10/10/2006 2:38:08 PM   
herfacechair


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Dorsai: nothing wrong now a days with being patriotic, just ask the Dixie Chicks . . . LOL 

I see what you mean.  Just ask those patriotic Americans who burned their old Dixie Chick CD’s when their lead speaker acted like a useful idiot.

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