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How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 5:44:14 AM   
Nikolette


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Status: offline 		Does anyone have any ideas on how Johann Sebastian Bach in the early 1700's could see straight into the heart of a 22 woman living in 2006 and compose the Six Suites for Unaccompanied Cello?

I am awed at how composers can pull music from thin air and create something so fulfilling and beautiful it makes you both swell with pleasure and sway with raw emotion.

*sigh*



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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 5:58:57 AM   
PeterJay


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Status: offline 		All of those early composers were great writers. Beethoven, Mozart & Bach. If you enjoy that type of writing & rock music you should check out Trans-Siberian Orchestra / Beethoven's Last Light.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:00:11 AM   
Nikolette


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Status: offline 		*grins* I have- very good stuff.


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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:00:24 AM   
FangsNfeet


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Status: offline 		It's called Talent. I'm glad that Bach's music was found and then taken seriously. It's sad that while alive, his compsitions where never played for the mass public to hear. He died poor and broken in his bed. Only after death did the people hear his music. Before then, he only wrote it and am still suprised that the one who found it did not claim the compisistions for himself.

Some or most of Bach's music may have been written by emotions about his social and economic standing combined with the fantasy and yerning of where he wish he could be. Either way, he had nothing to loose by composing music. I suspect that he decided to put all his heart and soul into this hobby becoming an escape of his social standing.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:02:55 AM   
ScooterTrash


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Status: offline 		I think we all occasionally hear a song that really hits home. With the vast amount of subject matter utilized over the years for lyrics, I would find it sad if someone didn't relate to someone's composition now and then. Classical music should be no different...if it makes you feel good, it's the right thing at the right time.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:08:31 AM   
Level


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Status: offline 		Good music is good music, and it can endure throughout the ages, because human emotions can, as well. I love hard rock, but on occasion, listen to some jazz or classical, and enjoy it.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:11:51 AM   
Nikolette


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Status: offline 		fangsNfeet:

Perhaps you are getting him confused with someone else???

http://www.baroquemusic.org/bqxjsbach.html

Here is a nice biography.

My slave is a film scoring/composition major at Berklee College of Music so I get a lot of exposure to all sorts of music and all sorts of information about it. Bach got to work for lots of royalty and was really well respected for his talents in composing, being an organist and etc etc. He had a lot of family and friends who loved him.

At least so far as I am aware.

< Message edited by Nikolette -- 10/8/2006 6:16:19 AM >

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:15:17 AM   
Nikolette


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True enough.

I listen to a really really wide variety of music. I tend to always want to share new finds with my friends and stuff. I don't really exclude any type of music. I can enjoy at least a few songs out of any random genre. *grins*

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:31:28 AM   
meatcleaver


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Status: offline 		They don't pull music out of thin air. No matter how talented someone is, one has to study and understand their art form to create. Talent without knowledge can be somewhat anaemic. It is inherent talent or gift that gives that extra something that lifts a great artist above journeymen.

But then as Shakespeare said, some men are born great, some become great and some have greatness thrust upon them. One has to have the luck of fashion and history on ones side for ones art to remain appreciated.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:32:25 AM   
FangsNfeet


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Status: offline 		True true, there was success but he never hit "Big fame and fortune."

Some say that his compisitions where before his time.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:36:50 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Not clear how you can say Bach touched your emotions, if that is what you meant, I think JSB's music is almosts clinical and in fact a lot of it was written to show what was possible with the method of Equal Tempered structure that had not long been introduced.

Equal Tempered means that each semi tone is raised by an equal amount (pitch/frequency) from the previous one.
ie C-> Csharp = Csharp ->D.

When music is played outside these rules, which it can be, then you get what Professer Cab Calloway called Chinese music, he wasn't wrong because the Chinese folk music does have odd intervals.

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/8/2006 6:40:38 AM >

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:48:42 AM   
PeterJay


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Status: offline 		You can call his structuring whatever you'd like. But you can not deny the fact that people are still listening to this type on music 300 years later. Do you think future gererations will be listening to Vanilla Ice in the year 2312? 

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:49:33 AM   
ScooterTrash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

They don't pull music out of thin air. No matter how talented someone is, one has to study and understand their art form to create.

True, but you have to admit meat, there are a few exceptions. I'm still trying to figure out how "Don't worry, be happy" ever made it out of the studio. Seems there are few others like that as well, but luckily they are very short lived. As you noted, the one's that endure are backed by talent and creativity.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:53:48 AM   
Nikolette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

True true, there was success but he never hit "Big fame and fortune."

Some say that his compisitions where before his time.


Not really. He was actually considered old fashioned toward the end of his career. Not unpopular, just old fashioned. He didn't really do anything new- he just mastered what was already there and brought it to a peek.



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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:56:14 AM   
ScooterTrash


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeterJay

You can call his structuring whatever you'd like. But you can not deny the fact that people are still listening to this type on music 300 years later. Do you think future gererations will be listening to Vanilla Ice in the year 2312? 
LOL...good point (Vanilla who)..lmao? Similar on a smaller scale to the "youngins" at work listening to classic rock I guess. I'm pretty sure the Rolling Stones are not the current generation, but I don't tell them that. But even after that finally passes, the classics will most likely still be around.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 6:57:20 AM   
Nikolette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

They don't pull music out of thin air. No matter how talented someone is, one has to study and understand their art form to create. Talent without knowledge can be somewhat anaemic. It is inherent talent or gift that gives that extra something that lifts a great artist above journeymen.

But then as Shakespeare said, some men are born great, some become great and some have greatness thrust upon them. One has to have the luck of fashion and history on ones side for ones art to remain appreciated.



Not true... I mean.. okay. True in this case since baroque composers followed... a .. script, if you will. But when my slave composes- he is appling his knowledge- but he is definitely getting something out of nothing. Although this makes for a good over dinner conversation- thank you very much. *grins*

He is always trying to teach me about music but I always turn him down. Right now its "magical" for me. If I knew more about it, I would gain insight and appreciation on a new level, but I would lose virgin ears. For me its not worth it.



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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 7:02:21 AM   
Nikolette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Not clear how you can say Bach touched your emotions, if that is what you meant, I think JSB's music is almosts clinical and in fact a lot of it was written to show what was possible with the method of Equal Tempered structure that had not long been introduced.

Equal Tempered means that each semi tone is raised by an equal amount (pitch/frequency) from the previous one.
ie C-> Csharp = Csharp ->D.

When music is played outside these rules, which it can be, then you get what Professer Cab Calloway called Chinese music, he wasn't wrong because the Chinese folk music does have odd intervals.



THIS is a conversation that would be good for my slave. He has some similar opinions. It sort of all comes back to what I was saying to Meat. You lose something when you learn the methods.

Andy (slave) always is saying how he hated some of his composition classes because they focused on atonal music, which is very mechanical to him.

But its all sort of fuzzy to me. I am not even sure if atonal is the write spelling for what it sounds like he is saying. I don't really know what it means. Drat.

So I woke him up and asked. It was atonal, not A Tonal. Lordy lord.

Okay. So... I got horribly confused. Bach is NOT atonal. It could be considered both emotional and clinical from what Andy is saying, from a composer's point of view.


BUUUUT I am entering a conversation horribly unarmed.

So I'll just say this-

To me- it touches my emotions. I don't know what notes are what, or what sharps are, or what he is doing, or showing, or mastering. It may not have been emotional to him, or for him- but it is to me. From my totally inept ears.

< Message edited by Nikolette -- 10/8/2006 7:09:49 AM >

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 7:14:06 AM   
seeksfemslave


Posts: 4011
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Status: offline 		More than just technical learning is required to produce a lasting piece of music.
A good clue to innate musical talent is if you can sing/hear harmony parts

Plenty can do this with no formal trainig at all.

Atonal music means music that does not follow the rules that that have developed over the last few hundred years over which direction the harmony may go.
If a piano is involved then it should follow the equal tempered structure unless the composer is so far out that he deliberately introduces severe dissonnance.

This kind of music has been descibed as sounding like   two skeletons copulating in a biscuit tin. 

< Message edited by seeksfemslave -- 10/8/2006 7:21:04 AM >

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 7:29:02 AM   
Nikolette


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quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

More than just technical learning is required to produce a lasting piece of music.
A good clue to innate musical talent is if you can sing/hear harmony parts

Plenty can do this with no formal trainig at all.

Atonal music means music that does not follow the rules that that have developed over the last few hundred years over which direction the harmony may go.
If a piano is involved then it should follow the equal tempered structure unless the composer is so far out that he deliberately introduces severe dissonnance.

This kind of music has been descibed as sounding like two skeletons copulating in a biscuit tin.


I read this post to my slave, and he laughed pretty heartily at the biscuit tin stuff.

And yes... absolutely its about more than just technical knowledge, I am just saying I have none. Andy says I have a good ear for harmonies- but I personally don't have any desire to push that into something else.

Now he is going on a long rant about how Schoenberg ruined classical music.

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RE: How could he see right into me? - 10/8/2006 8:48:56 AM   
seeksfemslave


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Status: offline 		Well Nikolette I can see you are a very considerate Mistress to allow your slave a rant on a Sunday morning.

If you REALLY like Bach then I could have guessed that you have a good ear for harmony.
My ear is very poor, mores the pity !

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