RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (Full Version)

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CrappyDom -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 11:55:56 AM)

Of what use are nukes?  If you were nk what is are they going to do for you?  They have enough tanks and artillery to destroy Soul and roll south and now is the exact time to do while we could do nothing to stop them.  They haven't.

They want nukes for the same reason Iran wants them.  Bush showed them that they are the only shield against US agression and that we would rather attack countries that did nothing to us and who didn't have nukes than attack a country that did.

They are highly effective as a defense, less so as an offense.  They know we would anihilate them once they used them so as an offense they are useless.




NorthernGent -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 12:14:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Just a little stir of the pot but how do you KNOW that N Korea want any more than to defend themselves.

Plain answer is.....you dont.
Some even say that the 1953 War in Korea was started by Synghman Ree, from the SOUTH !


Seeks, you old devil, you're coming round to the enlightened path.

You know what, I've just been watching Murdoch's Sky News, the caption is "North Korea have nuclear weapons", the screen is showing us the North Korean army marching around a square and the commentator is basically saying "look at them, they're dangerous".

It's an army! We have an army! The US have an army! An army marching around a square saluting does not make them any more or less mad/dangerous than we are.

What next, 20 Palestinians firing guns filling a television screen with the caption "they're all insane and they're going to kill us if we don't kill them". Why do I get the feeling we've been here before.

This has nothing to do with politics and political viewpoint. It's merely another Government and armed forces competing with the established Western powers.




darkinshadows -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 12:22:08 PM)

Ah cold war all over again...
I have never heard such complete twaddle *english word for complete hogwash* since the whole Saddam episode.
 
The ONLY real threat to world stability at this present moment is Bush.
And if people really wanted to worry about the future, they would be looking at China.  I would think Hu Jinto is sitting very contentedly at the moment - tasting those first real droplets of control...
 
Peace and Rapture
 




bills944 -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 2:45:58 PM)

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bills944 -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 5:25:21 PM)

 The two faces of Rumsfeld

2000: director of a company which wins $200m contract to sell nuclear reactors to North Korea
2002: declares North Korea a terrorist state, part of the axis of evil and a target for regime change


Randeep Ramesh
Friday May 9, 2003
The Guardian


Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, sat on the board of a company which three years ago sold two light water nuclear reactors to North Korea - a country he now regards as part of the "axis of evil" and which has been targeted for regime change by Washington because of its efforts to build nuclear weapons.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/korea/article/0,2763,952289,00.html




sissifytoserve -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 5:27:26 PM)

Yup...and these NEO-CONS thought it was only Clinton giving them the technology.




bills944 -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 5:52:21 PM)

Baker's GameIs he hurting Bush now to help him later?By John Dickerson
Updated Monday, Oct. 9, 2006, at 7:20 PM ET
http://www.slate.com/id/2151218/?nav=ais

Coming so close to the election, Baker's comments were not politically helpful. But they may help Bush in the long run if the President is serious about staying in Iraq through the long, ugly slog ahead. If the core of the president's policies is going to survive after Election Day, he's going to need a new salesman. Bush has lost the country on Iraq, and he has lost his ability to convince the country that he's got a plan for victory. Baker may be just the man for the job of helping him win people over.





UtopianRanger -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 8:49:56 PM)



Personally...... I'd like to see someone come down on a ''fast rope'' and snatch  Kim up in the helicopter. Then, fly out a couple miles offshore and push him out from about a thousand feet up.




 - R




ownedgirlie -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:14:28 PM)

Using Fast Reply:

In an article by Bill Gertz on 9/29/95:  The Western United States could be within range of North Korea's longest-range missile armed with nuclear, chemical or biological warheads by the year 2000, according to U.S. and foreign intelligence assessments. Sen. Jon Kyl, Arizona Republican, said new information indicates North Korea's Taepo Dong-2 missile, still under development, is an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of hitting U.S. cities and demonstrates the need for rapidly building a national missile defense.


In 1998 the Washington Post reported:  "U.S. intelligence analysts believe about 15,000 North Koreans are at work on a vast, secret underground nuclear facility, a development administration officials say may represent a decision by North Korea to abandon a four-year-old agreement to freeze its nuclear weapons program,"
(8/18/98)

Clinton denied knowing about this on Larry King, yet Dick Morris later said the Clinton Administration was well aware.

NewsMax.com, on 2/11/03, reported: Ex-President Bill Clinton knew that North Korea had resumed its nuclear weapons program at least two years before he left the White House - long before he now claims - according to former Clinton White House insider Dick Morris.

On 2/12/03, the Washington Post reported:  North Korea has an untested ballistic missile capable of reaching the western United States, intelligence officials said Wednesday.

and

Meanwhile, the U.N. nuclear agency declared North Korea in violation of international treaties, raising the stakes in the standoff by sending the dispute to the Security Council.

In this same article, Ari Fleisher claimed that Bush believed diplomatic pressure could contain North Korea. 
and

Secretary of State Colin Powell, appearing before the House International Relations Committee, said the United States is pressing China to use its leverage with North Korea to persuade it to end its nuclear program. China is the main supplier of foreign assistance and energy aid to North Korea.
"We are doing everything we can to persuade the Chinese that the problem in North Korea is not just a problem between North and the United States. It is between North Korea and the region and North Korea and the world," he said.


We have known about this for over 10 years.  It's scary stuff.

Here's an article written in January of 2003 about the discoveries in the Clinton Administration. 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5368

For the record, we can point fingers until we're blue in the face, but the question is - what, if anything, will we do about it now?  Personally I have little knowledge on the subject, and only did a quick search to see just how new this knews was to the U.S. 

Here is a (hopefully) unbiased site from Wikipedia which lists a chronology of events, dating back to 1989.  It's an interesting read, anyway:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_nuclear_weapons_program




popeye1250 -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:21:07 PM)

All that needs to be done is to kill that Kim Jill Inge or whatever his name is.
I say let China handle this one.
We had them on the ropes back in '97. They were literally starving to death and what does Clinton do; he gives them $2Billion, fuel oil and food.




Sinergy -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:27:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

If y'all decide to elect me I'll throw the secret service out and hire my friends as bodyguards, then I will start to restore the country to how it should be. There will be hard times, but it would be worth it.



Hello A/all,

I would hire as my cabinet a bunch of people who A) hated my guts and B) disagreed with most of what I thought.  I would indicate to them that I wanted
well-researched arguments over my proposals, because I would read whatever they provided me.  Then I would find out the counter-arguments.

Then make my decision.  Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that read "The Buck Stops Here."

I dont really mind people disagreeing with me.  I just find it amusing when they
fail to do their homework first.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy




ownedgirlie -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:30:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

All that needs to be done is to kill that Kim Jill Inge or whatever his name is.
I say let China handle this one.
We had them on the ropes back in '97. They were literally starving to death and what does Clinton do; he gives them $2Billion, fuel oil and food.

You forgot about the trade secrets China picked up while visiting  Lawrence Livermore Labs....




CrappyDom -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:33:45 PM)

Mark my words.

You will hear in the next week or two after the surprise announcement that we have conducted a massive aerial bombing of Iran

"North Korea has demonstrated to the world that stopping rogue states from getting nuclear weapons is of the utmost urgency for the national security of the united states.  Therefore the bombing of Iran was necessary before they obtained a nuclear capacity"




Sinergy -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:38:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

Using Fast Reply:

In an article by Bill Gertz on 9/29/95:  The Western United States could be within range of North Korea's longest-range missile armed with nuclear, chemical or biological warheads by the year 2000, according to U.S. and foreign intelligence assessments. Sen. Jon Kyl, Arizona Republican, said new information indicates North Korea's Taepo Dong-2 missile, still under development, is an intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) capable of hitting U.S. cities and demonstrates the need for rapidly building a national missile defense.


In 1998 the Washington Post reported:  "U.S. intelligence analysts believe about 15,000 North Koreans are at work on a vast, secret underground nuclear facility, a development administration officials say may represent a decision by North Korea to abandon a four-year-old agreement to freeze its nuclear weapons program,"
(8/18/98)

Clinton denied knowing about this on Larry King, yet Dick Morris later said the Clinton Administration was well aware.

NewsMax.com, on 2/11/03, reported: Ex-President Bill Clinton knew that North Korea had resumed its nuclear weapons program at least two years before he left the White House - long before he now claims - according to former Clinton White House insider Dick Morris.

On 2/12/03, the Washington Post reported:  North Korea has an untested ballistic missile capable of reaching the western United States, intelligence officials said Wednesday.

and

Meanwhile, the U.N. nuclear agency declared North Korea in violation of international treaties, raising the stakes in the standoff by sending the dispute to the Security Council.

In this same article, Ari Fleisher claimed that Bush believed diplomatic pressure could contain North Korea. 
and

Secretary of State Colin Powell, appearing before the House International Relations Committee, said the United States is pressing China to use its leverage with North Korea to persuade it to end its nuclear program. China is the main supplier of foreign assistance and energy aid to North Korea.
"We are doing everything we can to persuade the Chinese that the problem in North Korea is not just a problem between North and the United States. It is between North Korea and the region and North Korea and the world," he said.


We have known about this for over 10 years.  It's scary stuff.

Here's an article written in January of 2003 about the discoveries in the Clinton Administration. 

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=5368

For the record, we can point fingers until we're blue in the face, but the question is - what, if anything, will we do about it now?  Personally I have little knowledge on the subject, and only did a quick search to see just how new this knews was to the U.S. 

Here is a (hopefully) unbiased site from Wikipedia which lists a chronology of events, dating back to 1989.  It's an interesting read, anyway:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Korea_nuclear_weapons_program


North Korea cant even build a bicycle that works.  Does anybody really think that Kim Jong Il is going to fire one (1) nuclear missile that might or might not hit the target, might or might not explode, and might or might not vaporize Barstow, knowing that the US missile defense system would go "Fired from North Korea" and precipate their country being turned into a plate of radioactive glaze?

I think it is a lovely idea that Kim Jong Il is blowing up nukes underground, but I am extremely dubious he will ever do anything with it.

Additionally, China will bitch-slap him up one side or down the other if he provokes an occupying US presence (apart from the 45,000 US troops that function as the tripwire to prevent a North Korean invasion of South Korea, on the Asian continent.  China stands to lose a huge proportion of their economy if North Korea pisses us off.  Odds the Chinese are going to allow Kim Jong Il to do anything to put their trade in jeopardy are non-existent.

And China has plenty of nukes.

Sinergy




popeye1250 -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:40:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

All that needs to be done is to kill that Kim Jill Inge or whatever his name is.
I say let China handle this one.
We had them on the ropes back in '97. They were literally starving to death and what does Clinton do; he gives them $2Billion, fuel oil and food.

You forgot about the trade secrets China picked up while visiting  Lawrence Livermore Labs....


Oh yeah, and all the rocket technology that Bernard Schwartz' (Big F.O.B. "friend of Bill") firm "Loral" somehow "slipped-up" on and gave to China.
Before that 2 out of 3 Chinese rockets blew up due to their faulty guidance systems.




Sinergy -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/9/2006 9:40:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Mark my words.

You will hear in the next week or two after the surprise announcement that we have conducted a massive aerial bombing of Iran

"North Korea has demonstrated to the world that stopping rogue states from getting nuclear weapons is of the utmost urgency for the national security of the united states.  Therefore the bombing of Iran was necessary before they obtained a nuclear capacity"


Hello A/all,

While I agree with the spirit of this post.  I am not sure we have the military support system to engage in bombing Iran.  Our bombers and guns and bombs and guns and radar planes are kinda busy bombing Iraq and Afghanistan at the moment.

Sinergy




Kedicat -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/10/2006 12:21:00 AM)

I recall 100's of thousands of Americans, Canadians, Britains, French etc etc....protesting for decades about all sorts of nuclear tests by Americans, Britains, Russians, French....

Bout the only difference was that few Russians got to protest openly.

Of course they were all ignored....as the arsenals grew....so what's the big deal about NK? Oh right, now some governments find it more convenient to say how evil and dangerous nukes are.

I'd guess that a small percentage of the money spent on building and keeping nukes per year, could have ensured that the world might have been kept nuke free. But then, nuke free doesn't really suit many of the civilized countries. Can't have a level playing field. Might have to negotiate instead of dominate. Work together.




seeksfemslave -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/10/2006 1:31:02 AM)

Just taking a cold logical look at what Nukes really achieve, if anything, let me ask this.....

First 50 years of 20th century, no nukes, plenty of wars between major powers.
Second 50 years, nukes, no wars between major powers.

Last year Pakistan/India entered the ring and took off their dressing gowns....but the bell didnt ring.
Both sides have nukes.

Are these facts related ?

Dont say wotisname in North Korea is mad, many of you lot appear to thing that Gorgeous George W is mad.
I sometimes think we all maybe mad.





meatcleaver -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/10/2006 2:05:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: seeksfemslave

Just taking a cold logical look at what Nukes really achieve, if anything, let me ask this.....

First 50 years of 20th century, no nukes, plenty of wars between major powers.
Second 50 years, nukes, no wars between major powers.



After two devastating wars that destroyed the continent I think European politicians eventually saw sense and peace had nothing to do with nukes. It was nukes that nearly started WWIII. The thing is, we Europeans (apart from the Russians) had little control over our destiny for the last 50 years and were the play things of the superpowers because of nukes and if WWIII started it would have been on our soil. Since the fall of the USSR, there is evidence enough that Russia had no intention of attacking the west because it realised it had inferior weapons and knew it couldn't rely on its so called east European allies. Nukes froze Europe for fifty years.




Termyn8or -> RE: North Korea nuke test draws condemnation (10/10/2006 2:55:24 AM)

Plain answer to the answer, I don't.

They look at us and see that we are the only country to use nukes aggresively.

They want to arm themselves, or their Pres thinks it would be a good idea. I think he is right. Look at Iraq, never even thought of being a threat to us. Simply didn't have the means. But when they were sure there were no WMDs, did they abate, hell no, they attacked. Know why.

I do know they are a bunch of fucking cowards, if Iraq had WMD, but only a 100 mile range, well why didn't they use them ? They did not exist.

Korea knows that, and I do not say North Korea, it is Korea. It is North Korea as much as Ohio is in North US. The entire southern part of this country is held by force, just like up here. It is Korea. The South Koreans would get our wrath and be wiped out if the North Koreans were our buddies, and you know it, all of you know it.

It is all part of the plan. Let's get this straight, a group based in Afganistan attacks us and we respond by attacking Iraq. Hold on let's make fucking sure we got this absolutely straight. A group based in Afganistan attacked us so we attacked Iraq. Have you had a look at a map or a globe recently ?

There is only one thing that makes sense, there is an agenda of which most of us are unaware. I cannot say exactly who is and who is not in this cabal running things, but I can say this much, they are pretty much unbeatable until.......

Until money is worthless. Money BUYS that power, so at the moment money IS power. What if that changed ? Think about that.

Police and soldiers unpaid for too long eventually say "Fuck you ". Where is the power now ?

It is indeed the only way, we MUST break our addiction to money. It is the root, indeed the soul of their power over us. They play us with want and desire, becaue they have and we have not. You think making a thousand dollars a werek is something, it ain't shit. You think making a thousand dollars a day  is something, it ain't shit.

The people who run the world make millions of dollars every fucking day. Get that through your head people, we are nothing but a fly in the ointment. Now things are turning, the REALLY rich are turning on some of the kinda rich.

Let them fight over it among themselves, get out, GET OUT of the money game. It is their gsme and we can not win it.

Only then can we move on and start to build real lives.

Don't get me wrong, this will not be easy, but it is the only way.

T




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