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Tikkiee -> Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 8:42:56 AM)

I don't suppose that anyone knows much about molecular evolution?
/looks hopeful
 
Please?
 
LOL
 
My brain is going to explode on this one.



mnottertail -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 8:45:21 AM)

probably not to the degree you seek.  what seems to be the prob?

Ron



Tikkiee -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 8:51:07 AM)

Well, maybe I can't seem to wrap my head around this. It's kind of a 3 fold question; centers around genetic drift, mutation and natural selection.
 
I am having a hard time understanding the concept that if mutation can be reversed due to DNA repair; how come this does not apply to genetic drift? AND, if natual selection is the normal in most society; how come DNA repair does not occur there?
 
I understand the theories behind each one, and I know that they have all been proven. I am just having a hard time when looking at these three, they seem to contradict each other.


bah, maybe I am just looking at it wrong
/smacks head in frustration



mnottertail -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 9:12:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

Well, maybe I can't seem to wrap my head around this. It's kind of a 3 fold question; centers around genetic drift, mutation and natural selection.
 
I am having a hard time understanding the concept that if mutation can be reversed due to DNA repair;
this is a known copying error.
 
how come this does not apply to genetic drift?
the lottery:
 
80 percent of all lottery winners are quick picks.
80 percent of all lottery winners are in a class two or three (as I have defined them)
80 percent of all lottery winners are within 80 percent of the class 2 and 3 numbers
therefore:
 
.80 * .80 *(.80 * .80) = lottery winner(large doubt of having the check next week)........not all alleles are transferred, right?

that is where the drift comes in, and statistically, where we can say there is no copying error (but of course there most certainly is, it is not significant enough to warrant intervention)   
 
AND, if natual selection is the normal in most society; how come DNA repair does not occur there?
 
If my tribe of big cocked males dies at an average age of 21 and the other tribe of small dick rather gay males dies at 99, who will have more jizz to stir in the gene pool?  Stuff like that. 
A man like woody guthrie can have certain strengths in the genepool but the disease he carried was a side issue in the natural selection.

Mutations have nearly immediate effect, drift is many many generations down the line and natural selection is everybodies lifetime.

What of these three is most likely to:
Cause cancer
Make amish people have 6 fingers.
Make men bald.

and so on.

That didn't help a fuckin' bit did it?

LOL,
Ron    

 
I understand the theories behind each one, and I know that they have all been proven. I am just having a hard time when looking at these three, they seem to contradict each other.


bah, maybe I am just looking at it wrong
/smacks head in frustration



LaTigresse -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 9:28:37 AM)

My eyes are crossing. The scary part is that I half got all of that.



Tikkiee -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 9:36:55 AM)

DNA repair is the process of correction. Copying error is a natural progression of mutation. In most cases; the exception being treatments for fatal disease; repair will occur...or at least that is the theory lol.
 
BUT...and this is where I am getting confused at
 
we know that genetic drift occurs over time due to population and geographical restrictions; HOW COME the genes are not able to repair themselves and remain constant?
 
in that same vein...with natural selection. How come the genes do not remain constant.
 
I just cant seem to connect all three in my mind as being seperate...it just seems that the ability to repair a gene naturally would outweigh the ability to evolve.
 
this was  debate I had with another student in class this morning...the professor said that we were both right and then told us to prove it...I am kind of in a block now lol. Can't wrap my head around his side of the argument which was pretty much what Ron said lol.



MasterFireMaam -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 9:43:07 AM)

Ron,

If I had had you as a professor, maybe I'd be a geneticist rather than a physicist. Doubtful, but you'd have been entertaining, which is have the key to getting students to learn. My Earth Science class will never forget that some stones are formed from the skeletal remains of marine organisms...simply because I had talked before class about an upcoming date, then wrote "marine orgasms" on the board. Freudian slip. LMOA

Master Fire



mnottertail -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 9:51:30 AM)

you make typing errors in your post, when you and me fuck, you give half your genes and I give half mine, of course the little rolled up pieces of dna at the end of the sequences are either unused or checksums for error correction, we make a best guess estimate in your little punani about what stays and goes from each of us.

If I make a thousand little cock gobblers or a thousand little weinee thrusters to throw out there and play park the caddillac in the garage with others, and benji and LaTigress send one out amongst us to do the duty the humanity will drift towards our side on the tides, then at some other time yet hence Labenji offspring will meet tikntail offspring (albiet many times removed, and we will drift that portion to our side as well) 

remembering at some point in all this diversity we are some related to all others and
the rest is Sly and the family Stone:

One child, grows up to be;
somebody that just loves to learn--------now

Another child, grows up to be;
sombody you'd just love to burn-----------

It's a Family Affair.........

so each is statistically a different aspect of the same phenomenon..........

It may be helpful to consider it as how big is the delta?

How much change over how much time is going to determine which slot it is going to fit in (within our lifetime) who can say if it will move from slot to slot in the future.

But enough of this droll shit, Tikee, can I ask your Master to examine your little incubator of alleles?

LOLOLOLOL,
Ron   





ShadowMster -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 9:54:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

DNA repair is the process of correction. Copying error is a natural progression of mutation. In most cases; the exception being treatments for fatal disease; repair will occur...or at least that is the theory lol.


Let me add my two cents here..

Because of the large number of DNA elements in any person, a copy error will often go unnoticed when the cell in question dies (if in fact, it ever survives).

Science has already shown that DNA is alot like a complex computer program in that sometimes you can change a byte of code and have no effect, sometimes improve it, and sometimes, it simply locks up the PC.

In this case, if the mutation occurs because of copy error, and it survives, and it's able to reproduce, you have a mutation in the traditional sense (perhaps a cancer tumor or super human strength or even the ability to move metal with your mind -- but that's another comic bookstoryc)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

BUT...and this is where I am getting confused at
 
we know that genetic drift occurs over time due to population and geographical restrictions; HOW COME the genes are not able to repair themselves and remain constant?
 

The repair isn't usually a repair in the same way you think of your car being fixed, unless you consider your care repaired because the old one was blown up and a new one put in it's place.

The problems with brothers and sisters having kids has much to do with too many dominate jeans within the same strand, and not enough diversirty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

in that same vein...with natural selection. How come the genes do not remain constant.
 


Natural section effects the source program.  Therefore, as it replicates, the "error" remains constant and in fact becomes the new "norm".  Therefore, any "repair" would be to this new "norm"
 
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tikkiee

I just cant seem to connect all three in my mind as being seperate...it just seems that the ability to repair a gene naturally would outweigh the ability to evolve.

Ability to envolve: No.  Ability to mutate: Yes.
 
Again, one makes a defective copy (mutation) where one changes the actual source template.




Tikkiee -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:01:52 AM)

I think I kind of understand.
 
I am relying on the theory that repair WILL happen; and yet, evolution depends on non-absolutes.
 
?
 
Or am I still off in left field lol? I really want to understand the other side of the argument.
 
quote:

  But enough of this droll shit, Tikee, can I ask your Master to examine your little incubator of alleles


LOL sure you want to do that? I am just a fucked up kid [8D] But, go ahead and ask him lmao. [:D]



Tikkiee -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:05:48 AM)

quote:

Ability to envolve: No.  Ability to mutate: Yes.

so, the ability to repair outweighs the ability to mutate? but not to evolve?



Tikkiee -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:07:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

My eyes are crossing. The scary part is that I half got all of that.

/sigh
 
I coud sure use some cheesecake [&o]



mnottertail -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:15:30 AM)

Say you have cancer, you are going  to fuckin' cakk.  Mutation resolved. Ain't going to let somatic infiltrate gametic (I know I spelled wrong but......)

Yeah, so you got rock, paper, scissors.  thats all.

Ron



RiotGirl -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:18:22 AM)

google it?



Tikkiee -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:24:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

google it?

LOL somehow google will not help. Give me advanced physics; mathematical theories and I can whip through them in a heart beat with no a problem...say the word evolution and I become stupid lol [&:]



Kirei -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 10:38:42 AM)

  There are two major factors you have forgotten about in your equations.  Most scientists do not put much into either of these either.  The first one is will, the second is belief.   
   Also were is the study of say two people who wish to give birth to a mutate baby?  They may be normal but can their will, and belief influence them being able to produce a non-normal baby?  Do they mate at times also when there is a less healthy egg and/or less healthy sperm?  Right now I've added four factors, and I'm assuming that both parents are considered to be normal.  Can they produce a baby with a tail for instance?  We all have the bone structure in us that could allow one to be formed...yet we do not have one.  Is is one DNA factor that prevents this, or is it multiple factors?  See what I mean?
   Look at a sick person who gets healed by a faith healer.  They may have gone to doctors and such and nothing happens.  They pray by themselves and nothing happens.  They go to someone else and the event triggers and they are healed why?  Belief alone...I doubt it, otherwise they could have healed themselves before.  You see belief is there, the will to be healed is there, they have drugs in their body or they may be taking also are there.  What caused the miraclous cure?  What is the missing factor in the this scenario. 
    This I believe is what your professor is asking you.  That is why both of you are were right, but he asked you to prove it. 

    Evolution is the point of opening up and reaching beyond what is there (transcendence-transcending boudries).  Like religion evolution needs belief to work.  If you are open minded and are willing to try to see things from different points of view....you will most likely evolve into a different human being in your understanding of the world you live in.  If you remain closed then you will never evolve without having some other greater influence to force that change upon you.
    Everything you read and hear comes from a point of view.  Your class books are based upon someone's point of view, your professor may have a different point of view than the book they use.  For you to truly evolve in any way you must first discover your point of view.  Then you must be willing to see others points of view, and compare them to your own, where yours could be flawed or wrong.  It is a very hard thing for anyone to do...but no one said the path is easy.

Koneko



topcat -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 1:54:32 PM)

Midear Tikkiee-
 
"drift" occurs over many generations- you can't repair what isn't there anymore...
 
Mutattion happens quickly-.
 
Consider the difference in a limping analogy
 
you dent a fender,  you replace the fender, the car is as it was before. (mutation)
 
you car is faded after 15 years of weather- you cannot make it the same color it was fifteen years ago...
 
Stay warm,
Lawrence
 
 



KenDckey -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 2:08:09 PM)

I think I have a headache.



windchymes -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 6:38:13 PM)

Cross-breeding fruit flies was a lot more fun than this[&:]



Aileen68 -> RE: Grrrrrrrrr (10/10/2006 7:45:02 PM)

Another fucking thread where no one is speaking english.



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