fear, pleasure and pain

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angharad -> fear, pleasure and pain (10/11/2006 12:16:25 PM)
Hello everyone. I am wondering about definitions of masochistic/masochist. Definitions are by nature a form of label and I am not looking to label but for a whole spectrum of how people express S&M and what feelings are involved. I have been aware of D/s for a while, and have read as much as I can find, spoken to lots of people. I can't seem to find as much about S&M. My submission includes what I believe to be masochism, and the intensity of that can be shattering. I would very much like to know how other people who consider themselves masochists feel and express this. I have a terrifying fear of being hurt, yet afterwards a growing fascination with the marks and the memories and the intensity of the experience. It brings me back, despite knowing I will be terrified, truly terrified again. It seems to be part of what I crave which is a difficult concept in itself. Does anyone else feel like this? I feel such a wide variety of emotions from fear to pleasure, delighting in the pleasure of my sadist to the tender aftercare. And i am tenderly cared for. Are there any good websites were I could learn more about masochism and practical things like looking after your body? Does any one feel like this? I am what i am, and that crosses over many labels , people are far more complex than one label allows, but i feel the need to talk to others who may have been this way before me.

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/11/2006 12:21:17 PM)
Reposted: For me masochism = gaining direct pleasure from what is generally considered to be physically painful The physical experiences that most people consider "painful" is directly converted into a pleasureable experience. How or why I have no idea- I wish I did. Then you have people like me- I love everything about pain play EXCEPT the pain part. The pain part sucks. I'm not a masochist- I get no DIRECT pleasure from physically painful experiences. But I love the marks, the attention, the being passive, the endurance, the submission for THEIR pleasure, the fear, the being used....I love all of those INDIRECTLY. So for me, it's the gaining of all of those indirect things that make the pain experience worthwhile for me. Masochists can have those indirect reactions as well, which further confuses things. http://www.collarchat.com/m_583606/mpage_1/key_masochists/tm.htm#583687 Extreme sensation play, what's hot about that for you? http://www.collarchat.com/m_204732/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#204762 why experience pain and what motivates a sub to enjoy it? http://www.collarchat.com/m_284469/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#284905 masochistic vs non masochistic http://www.collarchat.com/m_428681/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#428697 masochism http://www.collarchat.com/m_514097/mpage_1/key_except%252Cpain/tm.htm#514099 is it the pain or the act of submission? http://www.collarchat.com/m_99877/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#99877 ds vs s&m http://www.collarchat.com/m_319334/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#319334 question on masochism #1 http://www.collarchat.com/m_319343/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#319343 question on masochism #2 http://www.collarchat.com/m_475218/mpage_1/key_masochism/tm.htm#475218 masochism and submission, is there a conflict? http://www.collarchat.com/m_344784/mpage_1/key_masochist/tm.htm#344784 good pain/bad pain...blurred lines? http://www.collarchat.com/m_221596/mpage_1/key_masochist/tm.htm#221596 sensation slut

MasterFireMaam -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/11/2006 12:33:37 PM)
I have a masochistic side that I'm still exploring. In the past, it has been purely for spiritual purposes. And, it still is, in a lot of ways. I use it as a gateway for my own spirituality, but, I'm also using it as a way to serve a friend, which is still spiritual for me. Unless the pain is truly intense, I tend to "go away". I travel...I go to places and/or times and see specific things...or I just float around and see very abstract images. If the pain is intense enough to draw me back, I like the feeling that I know I can endure. There's a catharsis that comes with the pain. It can be like negative things are being washed away or positive things are being drawn in. I have used yellow, simply because, as a sadist, I know when a repetative strike is being unsafely done (one errant strike here and there is simply an accident). Other than that, I trust him with a part of me that I don't share very often, nor do I share it lightly. That's the part that's making it meaningful for him, because he knows this. So, it's a service for the both of us. Sexually, I've explored a little with lighter SM. Mixing hard SM and sex...I'm nat actually ready to go there yet...but I will eventually. Some issue there to work on...but damn, I love to be bitten. [:D] Master Fire

MichMasochist -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/11/2006 5:48:33 PM)
Well my dear, the way it reads to me is that it's more about the fear and fear of pain. The realization of facing your fear and defeating it. Overcoming what scares you? What do you think?

angharad -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 1:33:32 AM)
Thank you LA, MasterFireMaam and MichMasochist. Your words have been helpful. I think I was partly worried because like LA i do not get direct pleasure from pain. Or if i do, it has not penetrated the fear i have. Saying that i do remember thinking oh, that wasnt so bad, that feels pretty good, so perhaps as i become a little more used to being hurt i will be able to derive pleasure from the pain as well as from his pleasure and the fact i am enduring for him. I am sub to a sadist, who enjoys the fear and the pain i go through. i can honestly say its not a sensual flogging, beating etc. It would be nice to have endorphins built up with the level of pain, particularly as it would give me more confidence, but i doubt this will happen. Yes Mich, i do want to overcome my fear. I do want to 'achieve' i suppose, for him and myself. I know i will be so proud and happy afterwards, its that damn before and during bit. Talk about carrot and stick [:)] Thank you again for taking the time to reply.

MasterRobert1 -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 7:11:14 AM)
You might find this of help, or at least food for thought. http://www.hotlanta.com/sirreal/bdsmscience.htm

LuckyAlbatross -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 7:22:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: angharad It would be nice to have endorphins built up with the level of pain, particularly as it would give me more confidence, but i doubt this will happen. LOL all of my past owners had the saying "Warmups are for masochists" Not being a masochist, warmups didn't apply to me.

hypnoticblue -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 7:39:44 AM)
For me, I enjoy seeing what my limits are. I get so turned on thinking about my butt being whalloped wondering how many strikes before my eyes well. And yet, I'm still enjoying every second of it. I also love the after pain. Knowing that I pleased him. Knowing that I let him satisfy his desires. There's something about being vunerable that is another turn on.

liljoy -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 8:09:58 AM)
oh gosh LA i am so glad you said this! i recently had my most intense pain scene to date. i hated the pain, totally hated it. Remember the primal headspace we talked about awhile back that scared me? i went there for the first time. it still scared me but it was very freeing. Now that i know what it is like and that it doesn't disapoint Him. i'll be able to enjoy it next time. The part i liked best for me though was the quiet place where i could feel the pain but it felt different, like it was far away and it even felt good lil_joy quote: ORIGINAL: LuckyAlbatross Reposted: For me masochism = gaining direct pleasure from what is generally considered to be physically painful The physical experiences that most people consider "painful" is directly converted into a pleasureable experience. How or why I have no idea- I wish I did. Then you have people like me- I love everything about pain play EXCEPT the pain part. The pain part sucks. I'm not a masochist- I get no DIRECT pleasure from physically painful experiences. But I love the marks, the attention, the being passive, the endurance, the submission for THEIR pleasure, the fear, the being used....I love all of those INDIRECTLY. So for me, it's the gaining of all of those indirect things that make the pain experience worthwhile for me. Masochists can have those indirect reactions as well, which further confuses things.

juliaoceania -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 10:00:37 AM)
quote: I would very much like to know how other people who consider themselves masochists feel and express this. I have a terrifying fear of being hurt, yet afterwards a growing fascination with the marks and the memories and the intensity of the experience. It brings me back, despite knowing I will be terrified, truly terrified again. It seems to be part of what I crave which is a difficult concept in itself. Does anyone else feel like this? I feel such a wide variety of emotions from fear to pleasure, delighting in the pleasure of my sadist to the tender aftercare. And i am tenderly cared for. Masochism is an individual experience. I have a fascination with marks also, but I do not fear him putting them there. He is the type of sadist that gets off on seeing how little pain he can inflict to bring about the desired result. In other words he is into mind fucking, and he is very talented at this. To be honest, there is a dark part of me that wants all the pain that he can inflict, to push his sadism and my masochism... but that is not for me to decide and it is not the motivation for my submission. I have never been terrified, perhaps I should have been, but for some reason I am just not. I think in some ways I am more hardcore than he is, but he satisfies this part of me. I believe there is a danger for some masochists, including myself, to allow more and more abuse to be rained down upon their bodies in the search for a deep subspace... kinda like a junkie looking for a fix. I am careful with how I approach my masochism, because I have intense desires to be beaten, to "take" pain. My Daddy has told me that he will not make me into a junkie when it comes to pain he inflicts, and if my motivation to be with him was as a life support system for a flogger I would be seriously disappointed. I know that was not what your post was about, but it figures prominently within my own masochism experience, so I mentioned it. He is totally about the aftercare, and it is a bonding experience unlike any other I have ever had. I feel rather fragile after we are done.

subsa -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 10:23:29 AM)
this is a very interesting thread and one that i've been grappling with as a 'newbie'. i've never considered myself a masochist...to me masochists like pain. i don't like pain. i do like the things that we do; spanking, paddling, flogging, clips etc... but to me, those things don't really hurt. Master says after a brief warm up he's striking me really hard and there maybe some initial discomfort but very rapidly it goes away and it feels very good. so is that being a masochist? i don't know..... i'm going to answer your question though... i, too, am afraid of 'pain'. if we try something new i'm worried that what ever it is that happens to me won't kick in an it will really hurt. i'm worried about scening in public for the same reason. what if it really hurts due to the distractions? i'm worried to let someone else 'play' me because again i don't know what will happen. but as far as being afraid of the things we regularly do...no, quite the opposite. i crave those things.

liljoy -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 10:30:36 AM)
i don't get much of a warm up or haven't really at this point. He seems to get pleasure from watching me hate it, fear it and go past that. He enjoyes my tears and wants my screams and everything else that comes with it lil_joy

angharad -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 2:35:03 PM)
what can I say lol, liljoy I'm right with you on that one, my sadist doesnt like warmups, or perhaps when hes in the right mood he might. He likes the fear and the pain. I am learning to take pleasure from his pleasure in it. My own responses are still too untried to know if i will like pain or not. Sensual sexual pain, of course I like that, but real hurty pain.... I think I may well get addicted. Seriously I think I could be an endorphin junkie. Thank you all for your responses. I was intrigued with your post juliaoceania. I know i could take more physically, but man those head fucks! I have a sneaking suspicion my sadist enjoys both enormously. Subsa, I also fear what is new. If I know something is going to hurt and I survived it doesnt seem quite as bad. I can honestly say I twist and turn desperate to SEE what might be coming my way. My fear can build so high, and i want to beat that and see what else i might experience. And to be honest i dont think i've found sub space through pain. Completely out of it with fear and intensity yes. No flying feelings, except that of the whip [;)] Master Robert, that is a very interesting link thank you. I will reread it again. Am very glad all of you have shared thoughts.

becca333 -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 3:18:38 PM)
I'm still trying to convince a certain person the value of warmups. And like LA and many others, I don't actually enjoy the pain (although a nice fierce stinging is pretty good). But afterwards there's an amazing high - and the greater the pain, the bigger the rush.

liljoy -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 3:42:38 PM)
maybe He enjoys watching you hate it too? If that's the case would you really want to try to convince Him that warm ups would be a good thing if it would take pleasure away from Him? lil_joy

angharad -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 3:50:15 PM)
Perhaps. More as a confidence thing for myself. I do get very afraid. I think if i was a little less afraid I would enjoy his pleasure more and find my own, and be able to take more too. A mix of both would be nice, as we are learning each other. But it does ultimately depend on him. He does know what he is doing after all. And he will get the responses he wants.

liljoy -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 4:19:59 PM)
i understand i really do. i wish there was something i could say to make it better but those words can only come from Him lil_joy

angharad -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 4:34:50 PM)
Thank you very much liljoy. We have spoken about my fear. He has the information and I have said what i would like. What he does with it is up to him. I am trying to focus on how fantastic it will feel after, to have pleased him so much. And i'm sure i'll find a way. It has helped enormously to have read every post on here.

beltainefaerie -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 4:53:45 PM)
I have heard the term masochist used to describe people that transform pain into pleasure and to those that experience pain "normally", which is to say as PAIN, but love the high it brings. I have also heard people describe masochists as "sensation" players, because we can't know what these sensations truly feel like to another, I guess saying that one person's pleasure can be another's agony. It may sting one person and feel like a pleasant warm burning to another. Personally, I can transform the pain into pleasure, but some kinds of pain are more pleasurable than others. It can also be effected by my mood. Sometimes I'm a masochist (and have even been called a pain slut), but other times I'm more in the space that LA described. Some kinds of pain are delicious for me and other kinds are terrifying, but I enjoy or endure as Master wishes. I dearly love the sensation of certain tools, like the flogger. I also love the high that comes after the terror and the pain. Sometimes it is the implement itself, such as the tawse or paddle that makes me afraid. Other times it is the look in His eyes as He gets ready to use my beloved cane or flogger, because I know that even though I adore the tool being used lightly to moderately, it can also make me scream. Hopefully that wasn't too rambly and helped a bit.

liljoy -> RE: fear, pleasure and pain (10/12/2006 5:19:33 PM)
can you tell us how you transform the pain into pleasure?

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