Help Required? (Full Version)

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masterut -> Help Required? (1/23/2005 1:01:51 PM)

My wife discovered about a year ago that she has a submissive nature. She had hoped that we could incorporate her needs into the way that we lived. She has explored this all via the Internet and it continues to give her some of the stimuli that she needs. A little over 4 months ago she moved out, this was a ‘gutsy’ move on her part. She did it because she felt that her needs were not being fulfilled by our relationship, and in her eyes, and more importantly, I was not trying to fulfil them. We have now decided that 95% of our relationship is sound, but she continues to need the stimulus that I was unable to give her. Next weekend we are moving back together.

We have been together nearly 25 years, and I was looking for help in strategies to establish a working Dom/Sub relationship. I have a dominant nature, in part due to my profession; however, I would be the first to admit this has not spilled over into the home. Our ability to communicate has improved by a huge factor during the time that we have been apart. I am very aware that with the amount of combined personal history that we have, that the creation of a viable Dom/Sub relationship is a great challenge for me. I understand the principles that must be employed, however I have failed to find the right ‘trigger’.



proudsub -> RE: Help Required? (1/23/2005 1:52:09 PM)

This sounds a lot like my experience except i never moved out. To make a long story short, i learned about this lifestyle online, had an online dom for 2 yrs., found a r/l dom whom i was with for 6 mo until Hubby found out. At that point i had to tell Hubby about my interests and He forgave me, wanted to learn to be my Dom and so far it has worked out very well. I've been His sub for almost 2 yrs. now.

Our communication has also improved immensely since that day. I should mention we've now been married 36yrs, and He has always dominated the household, just not the bedroom. I have always waited on Him hand and foot and treated Him like a king, but i never had a name for it before. To help get Hubby started we first went shopping together at our local adult store, bought a beginners bondage kit and rented some bondage videos. I gave Him a few websites to read also. I showed Him some things i had learned from my first dom, told him what i enjoyed, talked about fantasies, etc. In other words i did a lot of "topping from the bottom", which is probably what your wife will need to do since she is the one who has explored this lifestyle. I think He is really enjoying what we do now and has even come up with some ideas Himself. Good luck with it, enjoy, and feel free to email me on the other side.[;)]



masterut -> RE: Help Required? (1/23/2005 2:39:15 PM)

Proudsub

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Rather than 'blunder around' which could be counter-productive, I have been considering encouraging her to have a R/L Dom, she would then be able to bring back those experiences into our relationship - 'topping from the bottom' - which would seem to have its merits. I sense however, that they may be some dangers in electing to go down this route?



sub4hire -> RE: Help Required? (1/23/2005 4:56:10 PM)

Why don't you ask her exactly what she want's? Don't allow her to say a D/s relationship. You need specifics. When you figure out exactly what it is she is seeking then you can ask the right questions. The productive ones.
I'd also suggest once you know what she wants. If you are willing to fulfill them the best of your ability go, out and find a munch group. Perhaps some mentors. They can teach you the proper ways to play with whatever implements you want.
Yes, you can even go wrong with a spanking if you haven't done your research correctly.



proudsub -> RE: Help Required? (1/23/2005 6:19:20 PM)

quote:

I have been considering encouraging her to have a R/L Dom,


Maybe you can find a mentor that can teach both of you together, that would avoid any jealousy or cheating worries.

quote:

I sense however, that they may be some dangers in electing to go down this route?


The dangers i see are that she could become emotionally attached to her dom, or he to her. There is always the possibility of picking up an STD, even if there is no intercourse.



domtimothy46176 -> RE: Help Required? (1/24/2005 4:44:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterut

Proudsub

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Rather than 'blunder around' which could be counter-productive, I have been considering encouraging her to have a R/L Dom, she would then be able to bring back those experiences into our relationship - 'topping from the bottom' - which would seem to have its merits. I sense however, that they may be some dangers in electing to go down this route?


If you choose to allow her to submit to an outside dominant, you should be prepared for the possibility that your relationship might end. Not everyone respects the santity of marriage and there are some who might actively seek to "steal" her away from you no matter how the initial relationship was structured. It can and does happen.

A more productive approach, IMO, is to work together to find the right "fit" for the two of you and work at it together. There are books, websites, forums such as this and real-time workshops and seminars that are available. If you both are sincere in your desire to work together for mutual fulfillment, there are plenty of sources of helpful information.

Best of luck,
Timothy



peppermint379 -> RE: Help Required? (1/24/2005 8:18:51 AM)

Have you thought about having her keep a submissive's journal? That would be another way, besides talking, to get feedback from your wife. Perhaps then you could find that "trigger" for which you have been looking.

pepper



happypervert -> RE: Help Required? (1/24/2005 8:43:34 AM)

I'll commend you for sounding very rational about what must be painful emotional times. However, there are a couple of comments that don't sound quite right to me:

quote:

She has explored this

then from another post:

Rather than 'blunder around' which could be counter-productive, I have been considering encouraging her to have a R/L Dom, she would then be able to bring back those experiences into our relationship

You say she's explored this without mentioning any research you've done. So I don't get a sense that you've made any real effort to learn more and really understand her or what she's looking for, and letting her find find another dom just sounds like a way to "subcontract" the work out. Such an approach gives me the impression that you're just going through the motions, and so it will just end up being a let down for both of you.

There's nothing wrong with blundering around; doing that together would actually be a good way for you both to discover more about each other. It could be fun, and that approach has obviously worked for proudsub <oops, edit -- I just reread proud's post and see that this reference is incorrect, so I'll make it a general "a lot of folks">. I don't think asking her what she wants will be sure to work because she may not be able to articluate it. Therefore, you probably need to experiment instead of waiting for someone to hand you a set of instructions.



masterut -> RE: Help Required? (1/24/2005 11:41:42 AM)

Harsh but very fair. I think one of the reasons that she left was my lack of consideration for her needs, and my lack of effort. I think then I devolved the responsibility with the net result that she gave up on me. Our communication was poor and this just compounded the problems. I not understand that this is not a passing phase and something that has become very much part of her life. I have been through the required reading 'Loving Dominant' et al, and have grasped the concepts, however I failed to hit the triggers for her. She has learnt a lot from the on line community in discovering and managing her feelings I need to do the same.

Masterut



proudsub -> RE: Help Required? (1/24/2005 2:31:20 PM)

quote:

There's nothing wrong with blundering around; doing that together would actually be a good way for you both to discover more about each other. It could be fun, and that approach has obviously worked for proudsub <oops, edit -- I just reread proud's post and see that this reference is incorrect,


We've done our share of "blundering" but it's been fun anyway.[;)]



MizSuz -> RE: Help Required? (1/24/2005 4:36:30 PM)

masterut:

I tell everyone who is just starting out to treat bdsm as a new toy. Take it seriously enough to realize that it's possible to damage someone (physically, emotionally and mentally) so it's important to resist the urge to run around trying everything as fast as you can find it posted on the internet, but otherwise to have FUN with it.

It sounds to me, from reading your post, that your spouse has only (or predominantly) ONLINE experience. That makes her nearly as much a novice as you. You have already said that you are both learning new ways to communicate so why not use the exploration of BDSM in fun as a way for you to cultivate your newly found communications skills. In the final analysis it's the communication skills that are going to get you through anything together.

Consider making a commitment to each other that for one year (or whatever) neither of you will write anything in stone regarding BDSM. That means no "from now until forever" rules and protocols, no "this is the way it's SUPPOSED to be" conversations, and no "the thought of this kind of play turns me on so that must be what I like in real life so I must have it" obsessions. Lots of "I read about this and it really floats my boat, are you interested, how do you envision it, when can we try it, do we have all the information we need to do it correctly" conversations. Then if you decide to do something make there defined begin and end times. "We've decided that she is going to keep her eyes lowered, not make eye contact with me until told to do so, and when not doing my bidding will sit at my feet quietly from 8:00 a.m. Saturday morning until 8:00 a.m. Sunday morning." At 8:01 Sunday morning the conversation about how it went for both of you should begin. If for some reason it CANT happen then set a time for the discussion to take place and keep it as your word is your bond. Commit to revisit it after a few days to see if time and perspective has changed anything (once you start doing heavier play a cool down time will be prudent).

Commit further to specific acts of exploration and commit to communicating about them; before, during and after. That means that you're not going to be very "domly" early on and she's just going to have to be patient about that. Reading and visiting websites can be helpful for basic information, but I would caution you to not read and take things as gospel (believe me, we have enough of those in this community already). In spite of what some on the internet, or perhaps even out in "meat-life" would have you believe, there is NO one-true-way. You must each decide what all this is to you individually and together. Since you haven't DONE it, there is no way for you to know. That's not a bad place to be, actually. The rush of the new can be quite a lot of fun, you might as well enjoy it while it's still new. The good news is you get to decide together what it means to you. Advice and mentoring is all well and good, but in the final analysis it's really about what the two of you want and not what others think you should have.

Finally, I would encourage you to meet your local community. Get out to a munch, if there are clubs and demos and workshops in your area then GO to them. Meet people, ask around about different things, and take your time.

So essentially I'm saying have FUN, be CAREFUL, LEARN as much as you can, MEET people (real time) and continue to focus on COMMUNICATION. These things alone will keep you busy for a year or two. Besides, if you do it this way you'll wake up one morning to the realization that you're both living it 24/7 in the way you like best and you didn't even have to 'make it official.' THEN make it official.

I recommend against collaring your wife (other than for short, defined periods of time) until you are both experienced enough to have a very deep sense of what that collar means to you both. It will mean more.

If you're open to your wife playing with another dom, then networking with your local community may enable you to find people you both can play with (together or while the other watches) and therefore you can share it in that way. There's a lot to be said for spreading your foreplay around (playing with others) and then going home to take it out on each other. [;)]


As always, your mileage may vary.





masterut -> RE: Help Required? (1/26/2005 2:09:02 AM)

Thank you all for your positive feedback and support. You have introduced a number of considerations and options that I had not previously considered. By a 'quirk of fate' she moved back yesterday and we spent a considerable amount of the evening talking. I sense a danger from over communicating, however we have a lot of catching up to do. It transpires that she has had limited R/L experiences and it has not been all 'on-line'. I am drawn to the idea of 'mentoring' as it would seem to be low risk both physically and mentally. However that very lack of risk maybe counterproductive.

She went the 'extra mile for me' when I wished to experiment with 'multiple partners' but I failed to reciprocate as I did not understand, (OK - failed to try and understand!) when she wished to explore her needs.

How stable does the relationship have to be to make it robust enough to start to explore together? However, if we don't start to explore, her needs will not be fulfilled and she will again drift away. I apologise for appearing to be 'needy', this is very much not the case, but what I do know is that if I do not make the effort this chance that we have been given will be wasted.

Masterut



MizSuz -> RE: Help Required? (1/26/2005 4:19:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: masterut

...I sense a danger from over communicating, however we have a lot of catching up to do. It transpires that she has had limited R/L experiences and it has not been all 'on-line'. I am drawn to the idea of 'mentoring' as it would seem to be low risk both physically and mentally. However that very lack of risk maybe counterproductive.

<snip>

How stable does the relationship have to be to make it robust enough to start to explore together? However, if we don't start to explore, her needs will not be fulfilled and she will again drift away. I apologise for appearing to be 'needy', this is very much not the case, but what I do know is that if I do not make the effort this chance that we have been given will be wasted.




[:D] Please pardon my levity here, as I understand this is an important issue to you. I wanted to share with you, however, that the above statements had me thinking "it sounds like she needs to be thrown on the bed (or over a chair, washing machine, couch - what ever's handy when the mood strikes), have her clothes torn off of her while being told what's about to happen to her and fucked LONG and HARD from behind while pulling her hair, smacking her ass (hard enough to leave a light welt) and telling her what a nasty girl she is."

Of course, I have no clue about your wife nor your current situation. That's just the thought that came to my mind when I read your post! [:D]

*Note: If you DO decide to do this, I would suggest holding her afterwards for a time and (if the clothes are expensive or work clothes) making sure to tell her to replace them!

[:D]



DarkQuin -> RE: Help Required? (1/27/2005 12:30:53 AM)

I'd suggest that you get involved in the real time lifestyle community. It's much easier to learn by watching and doing than it is to take concepts that are written down.

For instance I could describe florentine flogging in detail over the net and most like you'd never get it, but if we were both in the same room, you'd get it within a few minutes to an hour.

Online is great for information but is lousy for practical experience.

Quin

P.S. The hardest part about florentine flogging is not the timing but not being afraid of your floggers, because in the beginning you are going to get hit a lot by them *chuckles*



Zensee -> RE: Help Required? (1/28/2005 1:03:39 AM)

Make sure you both really need to be what you say you want to be, not for each other but for yourselves. If either of you are doing it for the other without needing it yourself, at best it will be for nothing.



masterut -> RE: Help Required? (1/29/2005 3:05:16 PM)

So I have blundered around, accepted that she needs to continue to talk to other people, even meet other people, and still it is not right. This relationship which has the potential to get back on an even keel, to be 95% OK, is likely to be distroyed, by what appears to be an all consuming need that appears to overrule the reality of 'day to day' life. Perhaps it is me that needs to be walking away from this? Maybe I have missed the point, all that I feel is that this evening I am very sad.



proudsub -> RE: Help Required? (1/29/2005 4:20:39 PM)

quote:

This relationship which has the potential to get back on an even keel, to be 95% OK, is likely to be distroyed, by what appears to be an all consuming need that appears to overrule the reality of 'day to day' life. Perhaps it is me that needs to be walking away from this? Maybe I have missed the point, all that I feel is that this evening I am very sad.


I'm sorry to hear this. It sounds like she is obsessed with her need to be submissive. I am curious what you have tried with her.



masterut -> RE: Help Required? (2/3/2005 9:52:02 AM)

Before she moved out with went to a Munch and purchased a 'flogger' and then made up some restraints using strips of material, and experimented. It generally did not go well, and I was unable to take the 'feedback', something that I have now learnt to do.

Since she has been back I have tried to set small tasks, 'wear this' etc, and it has generally not been well recieved, however as I have said above, I can, and will take the feedback. I have expanded my reading, including many books she has brought back into the house, and we had talked at length about the issues. We went to another local Munch, a couple of nights ago and met an interesting cross section of people of all ages, who were very welcoming, however I am not sure that it was what she expected

Her desires are driven in her head, and this may be true in most cases, and she craves 'control' and 'mind f**king'. The control I understand, whether she is able, or wishes to receive that from me remains to be seen, but the issue of mind f**king has yet to be resolved. I have carried out the usual internet searches and they all seem to say this is not a 'learned behaviour', therefore is something you can just do - any views? Is this about painting a picture in her mind and developing it? Or am I missing the point?

Masterut



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Help Required? (2/3/2005 10:17:18 AM)

quote:

Her desires are driven in her head, and this may be true in most cases, and she craves 'control' and 'mind f**king'. The control I understand, whether she is able, or wishes to receive that from me remains to be seen, but the issue of mind f**king has yet to be resolved. I have carried out the usual internet searches and they all seem to say this is not a 'learned behaviour', therefore is something you can just do - any views? Is this about painting a picture in her mind and developing it? Or am I missing the point?


You may gain some insight on a recent thread: [link]Your BEST "mindfuck" as a scene is ?[/link]

Mind fucks (we can say the 'f' word here ~wink~) are differant for everyone. Someone's 'hard limit' may be another's delicious mindfuck....

From what I've read that you've posted, this new dynamic in your relationship sort of blind sided you. And that's not unusual. I commend you for trying to fill this need that she has developed, but I would caution you in this respect; this is not for everyone. Have you made any attempt to bring this issue to a 'kink friendly' therapist in your area? This may be a way for you both to get comfortable with this new dynamic.

Lily



proudsub -> RE: Help Required? (2/3/2005 1:42:00 PM)

quote:

You may gain some insight on a recent thread: [link]Your BEST "mindfuck" as a scene is ?[/link]


Let me help here:

your best "mindfuck" as a scene



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