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Treason - 10/13/2006 3:03:43 PM

WyrdRich

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Southern California native, Adam Gadahn was indicted in Federal court this week for treason. I can't get the damn link to post (thanks for trying, Level, it's the student I'm sure) but wikipedia has a good summary of what this fine young product of Orange County has been up to.

I say, "good," and I hope this piece of trash winds up in front of a firing squad.

Post #: 1

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 3:41:30 PM

KenDckey

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I disagree after his conviction I thnk they should hang him then botch the job so it is slow.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

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RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 4:12:58 PM

seeksfemslave

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Just quickly skimmed thru' some websites about him so two points...
Has he been arrested or just indicted ?

We have Mad Mullahs in the UK who believe it not live off state handouts !!!!!!!
One has at least six kids!!!!!

(in reply to KenDckey)

Post #: 3

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 4:29:39 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Southern California native, Adam Gadahn was indicted in Federal court this week for treason. I can't get the damn link to post (thanks for trying, Level, it's the student I'm sure) but wikipedia has a good summary of what this fine young product of Orange County has been up to.

I say, "good," and I hope this piece of trash winds up in front of a firing squad.

No problem, Rich. Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Yahiye_Gadahn

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 4

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 4:51:37 PM

meatcleaver

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Treason is one of those dangerous crimes that can grow like poison envy. The first prosecutions are always agreed with by the majority and then its tentacles grow and take in lesser and lesser crimes until it comes knocking on your door.

Someone on British TV suggested this was a political ploi by Bush to get security back on the agenda with the up coming elections.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 5

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 5:06:14 PM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

Treason is one of those dangerous crimes that can grow like poison envy. The first prosecutions are always agreed with by the majority and then its tentacles grow and take in lesser and lesser crimes until it comes knocking on your door.

Someone on British TV suggested this was a political ploi by Bush to get security back on the agenda with the up coming elections.

Actually, Meatcleaver, we are pretty well protected on that one in the US. The term is specifically defined in the body of the Constitution (the only crime so included) and very limited in its application. "Giving aid and comfort to the enemy." Calling the President a "moron" is not going to do it. The last case was about 50 years ago.

Just an indictment, "Azzam the American" is supposed to be hiding in Pakistan and that seems to be a VERY good place to hide.

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RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 5:07:56 PM

WyrdRich

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Thanks again, Level. Maybe I need to hire a sexretary.

(in reply to Level)

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RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 6:47:37 PM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver
Someone on British TV suggested this was a political ploi by Bush to get security back on the agenda with the up coming elections.

No surprise there. The Dems are pretty much terrified of that particular issue coming to the top of the list. I even heard a rumbling that Bush was somehow behind the plane crash in New York.

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 8

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 7:26:39 PM

Level

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Thanks again, Level. Maybe I need to hire a sexretary.

lol, if she has a sister, send her this way.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 9

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 7:50:24 PM

gooddogbenji

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From: Toronto
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Actually, Meatcleaver, we are pretty well protected on that one in the US. The term is specifically defined in the body of the Constitution (the only crime so included) and very limited in its application. "Giving aid and comfort to the enemy." Calling the President a "moron" is not going to do it. The last case was about 50 years ago.

Just an indictment, "Azzam the American" is supposed to be hiding in Pakistan and that seems to be a VERY good place to hide.

Define enemy, aid, comfort, and giving, and we can talk about the level of danger involved....

Because if you don't define it, eventually a judge will, and it's only a question of whose side he's on to know which way he'll decide.

Yours,

benji

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(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 10

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 8:30:19 PM

WyrdRich

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     Consider the historical context, Benji. Back then, "treason" meant "pissing off the King." This was a major step forward.

     JMO, right now, the standard is seems to be not only joining forces with the enemy (Johnny bin Walker) but actually participating in efforts against one's country. Walker fought with the Taliban against the Northern Alliance, but not against US forces. He is doing 10 or 20 years in Federal Prison, but was not charged with treason. Gadahn has become an Al Queda spokesman and targets his efforts at the USA.

      As for the definitions morphing into something irrational, I doubt this would be the route to impose a police state.

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Post #: 11

RE: Treason - 10/13/2006 8:41:41 PM

gooddogbenji

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Not to a police state, per se, but to silencing certain factions quite well. And you don't even have to think too far.

Enemy combatants kept at Guantanamo are the enemy.
Giving comfort is trying to improve their conditions.
It's an attempt at aid, so close enough.
And the giving is almost happening. We'll call it attempted treason, and all members of Amnesty International are guilty.

Suddenly, no one cares so much anymore what happens there.

Not saying it'll happen tomorrow, but the definition makes all of that possible........

Yours,

benji

_____________________________

Prevent global warming. Stop burning patchouli.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 12

RE: Treason - 10/14/2006 12:24:48 AM

MasterKalif

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reading that guy's biography is really shocking....I mean did you read his family bio? he comes from a respectable family, from Jewish roots of all things...and Al-Qaida is well known for being anti-Jewish or at least anti-Israel, although they have more of a beef with the US. It is a sad case, I like to think that he entered a wrong path, and how if he were to be alive 20 odd years later he would say how wrong he was and how immature he is "now"...however, this is strong treason if he really fought directly against US forces, and so, he deserves it. I hope they took away his citizenship first.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 13

RE: Treason - 10/14/2006 2:15:00 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

Actually, Meatcleaver, we are pretty well protected on that one in the US. The term is specifically defined in the body of the Constitution (the only crime so included) and very limited in its application. "Giving aid and comfort to the enemy." Calling the President a "moron" is not going to do it. The last case was about 50 years ago.

"Giving aid and comfort to the enemy." is hardly a specific definition and this current indictment seems to be quite politically timed and perhaps politically motivated even if the defendent condemns himself with his actions.

Maybe its just me. Treason, like the death penalty make me feel uneasy because of the power it bestows on the state.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 14

RE: Treason - 10/14/2006 3:47:53 AM

nefertari

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I have a problem with this for a few reasons. One, he hasn't fought our forces directly nor has he led an attack on our country. Two, it's being used as a distraction because they let bin Laden get away. Three, Al Qaeda is just using this kid to get attention and to piss off Bush - apparently it worked. Four, we don't have a clear enemy. Sure, Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization that has perpetuated attacks on our country and our foreign embassies, but a terrorist organization is not a sovereign state. It makes me uncomfortable to name one a traitor in that regard. Some political and environmental activist groups are on the terror watch list, or whatever it is called. So if you are members of one of those groups or if you provide a contribution to one of those groups could you be a traitor? I realize that is a stretch, but it does open the door for that kind of scenario.

I really apologize for my spelling. I'm usually pretty good about it. I'm having an off night...nothing I type looks right. ~shrugs~

(in reply to meatcleaver)

Post #: 15

RE: Treason - 10/14/2006 7:58:10 AM

peterK50

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So much for the presumtion of innocence. Treason seems like a stretch but it makes for good headlines, and a good distration from real issues for the administration. It will be interesting to see the evidence given & the witnesses called, if a trial happens at all in the light of day.

_____________________________

Religion Is About Seeking Knowledge, Not Knowing All The Answers.

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Post #: 16

RE: Treason - 10/14/2006 9:18:49 AM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

Not to a police state, per se, but to silencing certain factions quite well. And you don't even have to think too far.

Enemy combatants kept at Guantanamo are the enemy.
Giving comfort is trying to improve their conditions.
It's an attempt at aid, so close enough.
And the giving is almost happening. We'll call it attempted treason, and all members of Amnesty International are guilty.
benji

How things are defined down at the corner bar, and how they are defined by the Nine on the Supreme Court are two very different things Benji. Narrowing the definition to what we have took a great many things completely off the table (not paying one's taxes, for example).

The bar is kept very high in our legal tradition. Dissent just isn't going to make the cut. Jane Fonda might have actually fired at US aircraft during her trip to North Vietnam and I don't believe she was ever charged with anything. It takes something like the Gadahn video appearances to meet the standard of proof.

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

Post #: 17

RE: Treason - 10/15/2006 8:50:26 AM

CrappyDom

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Oh, and here I thought this was going to be about Bush giving aid and comfort to Al Queda. I can't wait to see his face turn blue as they hang the traitor, perhaps using the Patriot Act, we can make all of his supporters walk around with a great big W sewn on their clothes so we can spot the traitors supports in public.

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 18

RE: Treason - 10/15/2006 9:32:35 AM

WyrdRich

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CrappyDom

Oh, and here I thought this was going to be about Bush giving aid and comfort to Al Queda. I can't wait to see his face turn blue as they hang the traitor, perhaps using the Patriot Act, we can make all of his supporters walk around with a great big W sewn on their clothes so we can spot the traitors supports in public.

What a lovely vision you have for America, Crappy. Makes me want to run right out and vote for your candidates.

(in reply to CrappyDom)

Post #: 19

RE: Treason - 10/15/2006 11:09:12 AM

CrappyDom

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You are right Rich, it is much better today with the War on Middle Class, welfare for oil companies, lobbyists telling the White House who to hire and fire, invasions of countries that dont attack us and the subsidizing and protection of those who do, massive deficits, destruction of the military, all such.

Oh thank god for the Republicans!

(in reply to WyrdRich)

Post #: 20

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