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RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 1:57:05 PM   
dreamscape


Posts: 51
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline 		No, I'm not trying to impress myself, nor am I trying to impress others. 

I was seeking opinions, end of sentence.

(in reply to Chatt22nooga)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 2:14:37 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamscape

A question for subs and slaves primarily, but responses from everyone would be appreciated.  In general, how many of you have wavered in the belief that you are truly a sub or slave?


I've been having a difficult time lately, wondering if I am truly ment for submission.  I know I have the desire to submit, but then I read posts that describe what others feel and do, and I freeze up. I know everyone has a different definition of submission, but can I be one when most things that Master's want, I simply do not want to do?  I do wish to submit, but not 24/7. I was reading forum posts earlier, and someone described having to ask permission for things like getting a glass of water, or going to the restroom. I simply can not imagine  myself doing that.

Any words of wisdom?


Well, you are here and asking as opposed to somewhere else, so that's a bit of a clue in and of itself. If you have boundaries that you don't want to cross, are you more worried about crossing them or more worried about not crossing them?

If it's the former, that's simple .. just don't allow it to happen. Have some fun, engage in those things you wish to engage in and leave the rest of it alone. No harm, no foul and you can have a grand time within your own personal boundaries. Your submission, who you give it too, how much you give is up to you.

If it's the later, that may indicate that submission is not just a stepping stone for some good sex or some kinky fun for you, (or whatever you use it for) but rather a place where you have the desire to set up housing and explore the rest of your life from this arena as opposed to a vanilla arena or some other arena. I would suggest you delve inside yourself .. try to determine what makes you tick, what your desires are and most of all, where do you want to go with them?

It may be that you are asking a question you don't need to ask at all.

"Am I a submissive if I don't want to do ABC?"

A statement might be better than a question for you.

"I am a submissive who doesn't want ABC." Now, does that sort of statement make you waver.. or does it just provide a parameter for you to work within?  And if it does provide a working parameter, can you keep your mind open to the possibility that one day, you may very well have the desire for ABC as well and that it's not a bad thing to keep growth as an option?


Celeste


< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 10/15/2006 2:20:05 PM >

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 2:19:22 PM   
darkinshadows


Posts: 4145
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I have a wonderful relationship where I can get what I want, when I want.  I don't desire to be micromanaged and never had, so the dominant I became involved with, I had to be sure it wasn't what He wanted either.
 
Submission can be 24/7 without having to walk around the house all day naked and having to call the dominant when you need to pee or take a drink.
 
All I know is that I spend my day, like most people - working, taking care of what needs to be done.  Just because you haven't met someone whos desires do not match yours, doesn't make you any less submissive a person - you will submit (as cheesy as it sounds) to the person that presses all those buttons.
 
On the other hand, you could consider the possibility you are a bottom - or possibly a fetishist... the list is endless...
End of the day, just be you and don't really worry about the labels, just communicate openly to get your desires across.
 
Peace and Rapture

_____________________________
.dark.



...i surrender to gravity and the unknown...

(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 2:19:39 PM   
dreamscape


Posts: 51
Joined: 4/24/2006
Status: offline 		Thank you....Your post honestly  made me step back and consider it differently. 

(in reply to BitaTruble)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 2:31:27 PM   
RedSavageSlave


Posts: 733
Joined: 9/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamscape

I know I have the desire to submit, but then I read posts that describe what others feel and do, and I freeze up.


I absolutely know how you feel here. I too have the same feelings.. but I have found that even though my journey is not the same as everyone else's journey, it is just as valid for myself and the person I share it with. Just remember, not every M/s D/s situation is going to fit you, but when you find the one you choose to serve, you will not have the "freezing up" feelings. You will just naturally go with what you feel is right.

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 3:11:29 PM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Maybe...you're just the "not a doormat" kind of sub. 

--M


I don't see how asking permission to do things makes anyone a doormat.  I ask my Master permission to do things, and he will tell you very frankly that I am anything but a doormat.  It's called obedience, plain and simple.  It's not everyones cup of tea, but it doesn't make anyone a doormat.
 
I am not micromanaged, but the roles are set forth the way that we both discussed and determined they should be.  I am very happy and content with the amount of control I have decided to give over.  My Master knows I will not be walked on by anyone, and if you ask him, I am sure he will say it's one of the things he loves about me.  I think he might consider it more spunky than bratty though (I hope).
 
Masters Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 3:13:10 PM   
Mavis


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/8/2004
Status: offline 		being a sub or a slave isn't that much different from being a girlfriend or a wife...  you act within your relationships the way it works for that relationship.  my mom always did the grocery shopping, was she a girlfriend, wife, sub or slave?  i dunno...  that's just the way her and dad did it, he was busy, she could get to the store.  (think they were quite nilla, but you see my point?)

i am both a sub and a slave..  if i asked Dom-Hubby  if i could go to the bathroom, He'd just look at me like i was insane.   However, when Master is with us, i always ask Him.   The answer is always yes,  but i do it because the expectation is different.

Masters expectation is that if W/we are in the same physical space, i am to be ready to serve His needs in an instant.  So i ask to be relieved of duty to go to the restroom, if He needed a drink, it would be tended to before going to the ladies room.  Doms expectation is that i am there to serve Him if possible and convenient.  So getting drink after ladies room would be just as well for Him.

This does NOT mean "a sub serves at her whim and convenience"   it means mavis, as a sub, serves exactly as her Dom wishes, which is on a less stringent basis than the Masters basis.  and honestly... if Master needed a drink, but i was asking to go to the ladies room, i pretty much bet He would delay the drink order, because i don't remember seeing anyone so parched that 4 minutes would make a critical diffeence in their life, for real.

What you do, what turns you on in your relationships will be defined by that relationship.  Don't worry about it, when there is a good match, you'll know which things are important to you, and to the Dominant you're working with. Some fetch n carry, some don't.  Some do within certain paramters.  Maybe you'll decide the thing you offer is to sing TV theme songs and massage your Dominant weekly, and that's it.  Hey, if that idea works both ways, enjoy!

_____________________________

~ Mavis

none of this applies to me, i'm only playing with lables this week.

(in reply to RedSavageSlave)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 3:27:02 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: darkinshadows 
Submission can be 24/7 without having to walk around the house all day naked and having to call the dominant when you need to pee or take a drink.
 


Exactly right, dark.

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to darkinshadows)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 5:54:36 PM   
Sub03


Posts: 600
Joined: 4/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Maybe...you're just the "not a doormat" kind of sub. 

--M


I don't see how asking permission to do things makes anyone a doormat.  I ask my Master permission to do things, and he will tell you very frankly that I am anything but a doormat.  It's called obedience, plain and simple.  It's not everyones cup of tea, but it doesn't make anyone a doormat.
 
I am not micromanaged, but the roles are set forth the way that we both discussed and determined they should be.  I am very happy and content with the amount of control I have decided to give over.  My Master knows I will not be walked on by anyone, and if you ask him, I am sure he will say it's one of the things he loves about me.  I think he might consider it more spunky than bratty though (I hope).
 
Masters Akasha


I agree--I ask my Master permission before I eat, drink or use the restroom. The answer has always been yes, I dont have to beg for it. There's just an expectation that I do it. And im not being a doormat because of it, im being obedieant to what his wishes are. If he is at work or isnt home for some reason then I have free reign to eat and etc. I dont have to call him at work or anything to ask. If that isnt something you like then find a Dom that dosent expect that. Everyone is different and every relationship is different. You go with what fits you.

_____________________________

owned by painarranger

I am His loyal slave

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 6:01:52 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamscape

A question for subs and slaves primarily, but responses from everyone would be appreciated.  In general, how many of you have wavered in the belief that you are truly a sub or slave?


yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup ALL the TIME.  Heck, i've been a collared slave for 2 years now and i'm still wondering if i am really submissive.  If i am ment for BDSM ect ect.  Though at this point i dont care too much anymore.  i am what i am.  Whether i am a vanilla girl with sub tendencies, a bottom, a submissive, or a slave.  Which i used to bring up to my Master alot and his response was always "you are a collared slave" being the bottom line. 


quote:

I've been having a difficult time lately, wondering if I am truly ment for submission.  I know I have the desire to submit, but then I read posts that describe what others feel and do, and I freeze up. I know everyone has a different definition of submission, but can I be one when most things that Master's want, I simply do not want to do?  I do wish to submit, but not 24/7. I was reading forum posts earlier, and someone described having to ask permission for things like getting a glass of water, or going to the restroom. I simply can not imagine  myself doing that.



heh - well i'd say figure it out before you become a collared slave! LOLOL  i'm one of those who has to ask for everything.  <wicked grin>  not that i do all the time, but hey i'm not a submissive!  ummmm... its not so bad really.  And if you're not grumpy, in a bad head space and trying to taunt some one its actually kind of nice. 

As far as not being "one" when you dont want?  Eh, you'll work through it.  Atleast for me, when i dont "want" to is generally because there is something else going on and he knows this.  He works WITH me.  He knows when to pull me back in line and when to let me go and play it out.  He knows when to push and when to not i suppose.  He also knows that i know - that he has the right and ability to stop anything dead in its tracks if he doesnt like it.  We both know who the Dom is and how far i can go and he also knows what my "normal" state is and when the "i dont want" comes up, he usually finds the source of why and then works it out with me.  Basically there are generally "reasons" we do not WANT do to something and if you can get to the bottom of the reason it can be worked out. Though i will say, that even being in a TPE relationship - there are some things i would just refuse to do and he knows that to push me to do them would cause undesirable negative consequences.  So he drops them as they are not in our best interest at the time.  He works with me at my pace pretty much and he knows that he will eventually get me where he wants me - but to push me faster then i can go would just cause him major problems.  

Point being, there are some things you might not be ready for - but if you find a Dom willing to work with you and go at your pace anythign is possible. 

As far as finding a relationship that suits you.  There are all types of relationships.  Be upfront - let them know that you are still unsure of were you stand.  They'll either work with you or decide that the two of you arent compatible.  It is possible to find some one who is compatible with all your many D/s levels.  There might be compromises but thats general for everything.

(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 6:06:33 PM   
RiotGirl


Posts: 3149
Status: offline
quote:

LMAO this reminds me of a time with my late husband. He had told me to do something, and I got mouthy and would not shut up about it. He solved the problem by using some duct tape to tape my mouth shut lol.
Huge lesson learned there  That shit hurts when it's ripped off .


yeah but that stuff is easy to get off..  Just add water and wala.. it slides off!  Course i've never had it done via punishment.. so i wouldnt know what its like to not be able to be playful about it
quote:


I agree--I ask my Master permission before I eat, drink or use the restroom. The answer has always been yes, I dont have to beg for it.


uhhh i've been denied!!!  Hmmm whats that supposed to mean?  i've been denied all sorts of things and have begged like the end of the world was coming.. LOL and i dun think that makes me doormat!  Though i think he just likes to deny me A) to see me beg and B) to reinforce our dynamic.

but  i neednt ask to eat or drink.


< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 10/15/2006 6:14:20 PM >

(in reply to Kalira)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 6:11:21 PM   
nikaa


Posts: 357
Joined: 10/13/2004
Status: offline 		We all have different views of what makes someone Dom/me, submissive, Master, slave or any of the other titles out there. However in the end we must define ourselves and the relationships we enter into.
 
I consider myself Phoenix's slave, as does he. Though I am not slave in general I am HIS slave. In that I don't have to beg or ask for basic things in life. However, I do ask for things such as alchoholic beverages, tattoos, peircings, and various other things.
 
Labels are wonderful things, but often times we spend our days trying to fit into what "others" beleive those labels to be. Instead of simply living.
 
Be open and honest with yourself first and foremost, then with others that come into your life. If someone's expectations are unrealistic you owe it to yourself to speak up.
 
In the end does it really matter how the general population defines submission or anything else or does it matter how you and those in your life define it?
 
I wish you the best of luck and hope you find what you are searching for.
 
Blessed Be,
Nika

(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 6:11:52 PM   
Kalira


Posts: 954
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Fort Wayne Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

yeah but that stuff is easy to get off..  Just add water and wala.. it slides off!  Course i've never had it done via punishment.. so i wouldnt know what its like to not be able to be playful about it

He only used it when I got mouthy and refused to shut up lol. Of course, that was usually at times that he was getting ready to apply some heavy pain to me...I hate pain...makes me cry like a baby....so he would tape up my mouth when he got tired of me yapping back at him lol.
I can laugh about it now, but then...OUCHIE.........he would rip it off so fast that I thought all the skin would be gone....ask me a question that required an answer, and then put it right back on after.


_____________________________

Facilius Per Partes In Cognitionem Totius Adducimur
We are more easily led part by part to an understanding of the whole.
Seneca

Damnant Quod Non Intellegunt

(in reply to RiotGirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 6:15:29 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

I don't see how asking permission to do things makes anyone a doormat. 


I don't see how being turned off or mystified by micromanagement makes you "not a true sub", either.

*shrug*  Every time I run into a sub who feels the need to defend his/her individuality, including limits and personal tastes, the phrase they seem to use is "I'm a submissive, not a doormat."  I've always liked it, and thought it was rather charming.  It makes me feel as if I'm dealing with a real person.

I thought the same sentiment might apply to any situation in which the sub cannot conform to the expectations of every single dom in the world.  I mean, you seem to have a good realtionship with one special dom...but aren't there other doms who ask things which you would not understand or feel happy/comfortable/submissive about?  For example, there was a post of "rules" the other day where a submissive is not supposed to be allowed to wear a sanitary pad or a tampon during her menses, and instead she was supposed to bleed all over the house to prove she was a true sub...

--M

(in reply to SlaveAkasha)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 8:13:40 PM   
SlaveAkasha


Posts: 726
Joined: 9/30/2006
From: Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

I don't see how asking permission to do things makes anyone a doormat. 


I don't see how being turned off or mystified by micromanagement makes you "not a true sub", either.



I never said that it didn't make anyone "not a true sub".  There are different types of people out there, it's just finding one that has the same interests and taste as you do.  What I said was, that to me, doing what I am told, is obedience, not being a doormat.  I get tired of people referring to slaves as doormats, just because most live in a more strict type of home than submissives do (not all, but most).
 
I very much still have my own mind, and do quite fine on my own.  The difference is that I have chose to give up my control to someone else.  This doesn't make me more or less sub than someone else, it just makes me, me.
 
Masters Akasha

_____________________________

Look, if you want to torture me, spank me, lick me, do it. But if this poetry shit continues just shoot me now please.
~ Tank Girl

www.peta.org
www.goveg.com

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 8:31:18 PM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I wavered a few times when I was with my former dominant. He would say things that would cause me to question my submissiveness. I thought getting angry was unsubmissive (and perhaps it is?), and if I could get angry, feel resentful, have less than submissive feelings then perhaps I wasn't a submissive.

The last time I questioned this was when I first began looking for a new man under vanilla rocks. I went out on a few dates, I answered a lot of emails. It felt "wrong".... so I quit doing that and went in search of a dominant to bond with... it was when I did this I realized I could not change my submissiveness and it had little to do with any one particular dominant. But that is just my experience.

Edited to add, there are all sorts of flavors of dominants out there, and it takes a while to discern what you want and need from this relationship structure... any dominant that you get involved with will hopefully understand that and if they do not understand it then perhaps it is a bad fit for you. I will say my Daddy does not micromanage and not all dominants like that... there is someone for everyone... your compliment can be found... just stay true to your limits and boundaries while you get to know anyone...

No one is expected to know everything about themselves... at least I do not expect people to...

< Message edited by juliaoceania -- 10/15/2006 8:38:22 PM >

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 8:39:14 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlaveAkasha

I don't see how asking permission to do things makes anyone a doormat. 


I don't see how being turned off or mystified by micromanagement makes you "not a true sub", either.


No one said anything about true or untrue.  Your post made an assumption that anyone who asks is a doormat.  There are many, many reasons why someone might ask.  Some have to do with micromanagement (which is perfect for some people) and some do not (which is also perfect for some people).  People simply responded to your comment, which when standing alone, made no sense. 

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 9:42:32 PM   
KnifeCandy


Posts: 32
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline 		No worries! One of the greatest things about this lifestyle is that everyone has their own definitions/limits. Sure, there will be those idealists who will insist that you are not a "true" or "real" submissive unless you don't care WHAT happens to you, but the people with whom you will want to associate are the ones who are realists.

Communication is the biggest key; if you and your Dom are on the same page, it doesn't matter what anyone outside your relationship thinks. And don't sweat the 24/7 thing...it is by no means a necessity! Although you may someday find yourself growing into it, it's just as likely you will not. So, enjoy the ride, experience everything you want to/can, and do your best to ignore the idealists/naysayers.

Cheers!
KC

_____________________________

You laugh at me because I am different. I laugh at you because you are all the same.

(in reply to dreamscape)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 10:02:10 PM   
Morrigel


Posts: 492
Joined: 10/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ownedgirlie
No one said anything about true or untrue.  Your post made an assumption that anyone who asks is a doormat.  


Lol...hardly!  My initial post was responding to the initial poster, who had some doubts about whether she could be a "truly a submissive" and still not want to do every single thing that every single dom wants her.  Period.  I personally find the idea that one set of behaviors or another is "true submission" to be completely bogus.  There is no "one true path" re: submission any more than there is "one true path" re: domination.

"Not a doormat" is simply a commonly used phrase which seems to make a lot of submissive people feel better about the differences between their own wants and needs and the expectations that are placed on them by others.

As for asking to go to the bathroom or take a drink of water, specifically?  *shrug*  I really have no opinion.  I've never tried it myself--perhaps because I often enjoy immobilizing bondage, which tends to make such questions moot?  But I suppose it could be hot or appropriate with the right sub or in the right situation...  really, I don't believe I've ever met or spoken to a sub and his/her master and thought "this person is a doormat".  My thought tends to be more along the lines of "This person seems really happy and satisfied" or "this person seems really unhappy and will probably not stay with this dominant for long".  *shrug*

Do you know any subs you consider doormats?  If so, what characterizes them as a doormat?  It surely can't be brought down to something as simple as one training routine or game?

--M

(in reply to ownedgirlie)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: rambling - 10/15/2006 10:07:47 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Morrigel

Do you know any subs you consider doormats?  If so, what characterizes them as a doormat?  It surely can't be brought down to something as simple as one training routine or game?

--M

No, actually, I don't.  And I was simply suggesting that a one line statement such as your original post, without any qualifiers, gave a perception that anyone who asked permission for such things discussed in the OP was a doormat.  Your subsequent qualifiers did help to clarify, amidst all that shrugging, lol.

(in reply to Morrigel)
Profile   Post #: 40
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