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More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 6:24:12 AM

ShiftedJewel

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Although I do agree that there comes a time in a D/s or M/s relationship that safewords during play are rarely, if ever, needed. I believe there are other uses for safewords. It is my opinion that harsh words are just as damaging, if not more so, then physical punishment. And there are times during a discussion that harsh words happen, hurt feelings occur and listening and open communication suffers. A safe word should be in place for just such a time. If something is said that is more hurtful then helpful, when constructive critizism becomes hateful critique then a safe word should be used to stop the conversation and focus on the feelings behind the harsh words. It just seems to me that once a persons feelings are hurt they stop responding to communication because they are more in the "defense mode". So if you use a "safe word" you are telling the other person that everyone involved needs to stop immediately and "fix" the problem. And I don't believe it should be just the bottom/sub/slave that uses the safe word, dominants get their feelings hurt too.

Has anyone else ever tried this?

Jewel

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 6:38:47 AM

FangsNfeet

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Safe words for feelings and conversations? I always thoght that if you didn't like what you hear you could just go to another group or leave all together. Rather it's race, gender, religion, politics, or whatever, I'm going to say what I think regardless of who I offend. No matter what a person says in a conversation, someone will always be offended. Useing a safe word to stop a conversation because some one is getting there feelings hurt just dosen't make sense to me. Why not just jump up and say "Can we change the conversation?" Or bring up a new topic yourself. Either way, it's rare that a person just has to sit there in a circle and hear upsetting words that just puts them in tears. As for me, my feelings never get hurt. Like I always tell people SAVE THE DRAMA FOR YOUR MAMA!

Oh I guess I have offended someone. Oh well, it was nice knowing you.

NEXT!

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 6:43:04 AM

ShiftedJewel

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Fangs,
I was refering to a conversation between One and their submissive/slave, not in general. Sorry, I should have been more clear.

Jewel

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 6:45:04 AM

ProtagonistLily

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Joined: 12/27/2004
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quote:

Although I do agree that there comes a time in a D/s or M/s relationship that safewords during play are rarely, if ever, needed. I believe there are other uses for safewords. It is my opinion that harsh words are just as damaging, if not more so, then physical punishment. And there are times during a discussion that harsh words happen, hurt feelings occur and listening and open communication suffers. A safe word should be in place for just such a time. If something is said that is more hurtful then helpful, when constructive critizism becomes hateful critique then a safe word should be used to stop the conversation and focus on the feelings behind the harsh words. It just seems to me that once a persons feelings are hurt they stop responding to communication because they are more in the "defense mode". So if you use a "safe word" you are telling the other person that everyone involved needs to stop immediately and "fix" the problem. And I don't believe it should be just the bottom/sub/slave that uses the safe word, dominants get their feelings hurt too.

Has anyone else ever tried this?

Jewel

If you need a safe word during a conversation, you might want to examine this relationships for abusive characteristics.

Or perhaps, feeling the need to safe word is a way some submissives would Top from the bottom.

Either way, I can't see the need for it in any of my relationships.

Lily

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 6:51:44 AM

FangsNfeet

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Oh one on one conversation eh? If I don't like what I hear I'll say "SHUT UP! I don't want to hear it right now." Or I'll just start counting for she knows each numbers means another swat from my switch. Oh my sub hurting my feelings with words? I don't ever see it happening. As it has never happened yet. Along time ago I was driving a girl friend back home when she started telling my that my Family is a bunch of Dumber then Dirt Farmers and that If she ever got pregnant she would get an abortion and not even tell me about it. Well I was so upset that I kicked her out of my car but was nice enough to call her parents to tell her which highway she was on and I haven't seen or heard from her since. Now if my oppinion or words are offending my sub, well it's not like I'm forceing her to stay. I am me and will always be me and keep true to my beliefs. If he/she dosen't like it, well find a more caring and understanding master. I don't have time trying to be someone else or not saying what I think because it's going to put in MAJOR DRAMA mode.

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 7:22:32 AM

RiotGirl

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Access Denied

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/15/2005 11:05:26 PM >

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 7:43:10 AM

Moleculor

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I can see the potential use in said situation, especially if the person saying the "mean things" is a skilled artist in using words to cut. Intentionally or not.

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 9:01:07 AM

perverseangelic

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OP, I definatly see what you're saying, however I agree that if you feel the need to "safe word" out of a conversation you need to look at the relationship a little more closely. I know that even wonderful people can say horrid, cutting things, but I also believe that individuals should be able to disengage from a conversation in which that is occuring, or make their partner aware of what the parter is doing.

The way I see it, conversations are the things that makes safe words less and less necessary. Communication is what establishes the rapport. If that communication is causing problems, then I think some examinination is needed.

(This is in a non-spesifically focused on humiliation et al. conversation. One where actual information exchange is supposed to be occuring.)

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 9:33:03 AM

Bigbossman4u

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As with most anything in this thing that we do, I am of the opinion that the potential uses of a safe word would be up to the participants - and other's opinions be damned. The OP makes a valid point for a possible use for some I'm sure.

Communication is vital, and my initial thought is that if one needs a safeword during verbal communication then perhaps it's time not only to take a deep breath - but to take an honest and fearless look at the means and effectiveness of the communication skills themselves. Granted, I'm not generally the passive aggressive type, and I try to think before I open my mouth (and occasionally I fail miserably) but I can't see a safeword being any more or less effective in such a situation than a knowing gaze, frown or better yet - a concise verbal explanation of what is wrong. I guess it depends on the level of communication that has developed.

I have never had a partner use a safeword but once - when she had a horrible leg cramp in the middle of a paddling. It certainly came in handy then... but then again all she had to say was "Joshua, hold up I've got a cramp" and it would have achieved the same pause...

Whatever works for ya....

Best,
Joshua

< Message edited by Bigbossman4u -- 1/25/2005 10:00:33 AM >

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 9:55:24 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

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I think that sometimes we in the lifestyle get a bit too hung up on the protocol and standardization of communications. The use of safewords, while helpful in certain situations, can be taken a bit too far, if we use them out of context.

In the situation presented by the OP, I think a well spoken expression of hurt might be more productive then a calling out of "RED."

One of the aspects I have added to my recent contracts is a statement on the use of safewords. If there will be no role-playing involved in the negotiated contract, I state clearly that the slave's (and Trainer's) expressions of pain, discomfort, or anxiety should be taken at face value. In other words, "no" means no and "stop, that hurts" means stop that hurts.

I suppose if a slave had been trained to only be able to express true discomfort through safewords, it might be wise to allow her to use safewords for all sorts of discomfort. However, I see many more advantages to training a slave to use as many words of the English language as possible.

Taggard

< Message edited by TallDarkAndWitty -- 1/25/2005 9:56:40 AM >

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My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 10:29:39 AM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

One of the aspects I have added to my recent contracts is a statement on the use of safewords. If there will be no role-playing involved in the negotiated contract, I state clearly that the slave's (and Trainer's) expressions of pain, discomfort, or anxiety should be taken at face value. In other words, "no" means no and "stop, that hurts" means stop that hurts.

That's interesting. However, I wonder how practical it is. How would you deal with this (I'm describing an experience of mine, as a bottom, not a hypothetical)

I'm playing with a Top whose using a single tail on me. At some point (and know I have a relationship with this Top where my next behavior isn't unusual) he grabs me a good one and I say "Son of a bitch, that hurt!. In your contract, that means he stops, I get taken down off the cross and we are done. But in this case if I'm not able to express this, as a means to exchange my energy, I'm screwed. If I want to continue, I have to bottle up my expression so that the scene continues.

I believe the most important thing is know yourself and know your bottom. There are things that hurt, period. I've never been able to sustain a whipping without expression of pain. How do I participate in the energy flow if I don't express it.

I would be disappointed if at the first expression of pain the scene was concluded. That would disappoint me as a Top or a bottom. That's why, I think that safewords are good because it distinguishes between an outward expression and a desire to cease an activity.

That's my two cents for what ever it's worth...

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 11:35:56 AM

TallDarkAndWitty

Posts: 1893
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From: Rochester, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

I'm playing with a Top whose using a single tail on me. At some point (and know I have a relationship with this Top where my next behavior isn't unusual) he grabs me a good one and I say "Son of a bitch, that hurt!. In your contract, that means he stops, I get taken down off the cross and we are done. But in this case if I'm not able to express this, as a means to exchange my energy, I'm screwed. If I want to continue, I have to bottle up my expression so that the scene continues.

In the situation described above, I wouldn't stop the scene, I would evaluate the scene given what I know about you, and about the activity we are engaged in.

If you had said "Son of a bitch, that hurt! Stop this immediately and let me down off this cross." I would stop the scene. If you had only said, "Son of a bitch, that hurt!" I would probably back off a bit, before building back up to that level of sensation. Or maybe, knowing that you enjoy a bit of pain, I'd simply chuckle and whisper in your ear that it hurt because it was supposed to hurt, and then proceed to spell out S-o-n-o-f-a-b-i-t-c-h on your backside, one stroke per letter.

I just think that in most cases, it makes a lot more sense to convey true meaning in our words, and not rely on safewords for every situation.

Taggard

_____________________________

A most rewarding compliment is an insult from the ill-informed.

My slave: Kat (RainaVerene on the other side) and her website: RainaVerene.com

(in reply to ProtagonistLily)

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 11:49:42 AM

DogTheNine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TallDarkAndWitty

In the situation described above, I wouldn't stop the scene, I would evaluate the scene given what I know about you, and about the activity we are engaged in.

If you had said "Son of a bitch, that hurt! Stop this immediately and let me down off this cross." I would stop the scene. If you had only said, "Son of a bitch, that hurt!" I would probably back off a bit, before building back up to that level of sensation. Or maybe, knowing that you enjoy a bit of pain, I'd simply chuckle and whisper in your ear that it hurt because it was supposed to hurt, and then proceed to spell out S-o-n-o-f-a-b-i-t-c-h on your backside, one stroke per letter.

I just think that in most cases, it makes a lot more sense to convey true meaning in our words, and not rely on safewords for every situation.

Taggard

I think this is how I would interpret it at well. I have yet to experience any of this, but I know that if I were on the receiving end, I am going to express pain. That's just a natural reaction. Stub your toe, you say ow. I wouldn't want the session to stop. And I like Taggards idea of spelling out SOB with the switch. Perfect :)

(in reply to TallDarkAndWitty)

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 12:17:30 PM

Cyis75

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From: Georgia
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From my own personal experience as me and my lovely submissive "kitty" live together. For us our safeword is basically always active. What I mean by that is that it is honored regardless of what is going on, whether it's in a scene or not. For us it makes us mindful of it at all times. In most cases it's not used in scenes at all, as she's only called it once in a scene actually so far. Being as she enjoys pain a lot, such a lovely masochist she is, I got the sadistic gleem in my eye when I accidently tickled her highly sensative skin during a scene and decided to continue until she couldn't take it any longer and called out her safe word. That of course after the knife, whips, floggers, paddles and other implaments had been used. Other times not in scenes either she or I will use it when something has gone on further than we can take it. Usually me tickling her can evoke it.

For us the idea is that even in the silly instances where it's called it is honored regardless of the situation and she trusts that if she uses it I will honor it and vice versa. We don't treat the safeword like a purple elephant in the living room that no one wants to recognize unless it's within a scene. I like to think it's in part because of this that the level of trust has been built so great between us. That along with all the other aspects that make up a good healthy relationship like good open communication and honesty.

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 1:41:34 PM

ProtagonistLily

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quote:

Or maybe, knowing that you enjoy a bit of pain, I'd simply chuckle and whisper in your ear that it hurt because it was supposed to hurt, and then proceed to spell out S-o-n-o-f-a-b-i-t-c-h on your backside, one stroke per letter.

Well now....~smirk~

I was just checking. In as much as some of the conventions that have grown up around the lifestyle with respect to language and behavior,I was just trying to play devil's advocate and clerify where you were coming from.

Lily

_____________________________

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"
~Dr. Seuss~

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 5:03:12 PM

FangsNfeet

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"Fangs you worry me"

I'll take that as a compliment for vampires should worry you.

"You seem to not know that in order for a sub to take care of you, you must take care of them."

I don't need anyone to take care of me. I just like having someone around that I can bite, tie up, whip, tourture, spank, have sex with, and other naughty things as well as keep the dishes clean. But again I say, I don't need them.

"you seem like you are trying to prove something"

I have nothing to prove.

"There is no reason to be shouting here, or dismissing some ones post with a Capital Next! On top of that, why would you ever need to tell a submissive to "shut up"?"

I like to shout. The "NEXT!" replies that I'm done with the topic and ready to read and respond to something else as in ask another question for me to read. Oh there are many reasons to tell a sub to shut up. Humiliation is one of them. And perhaps he/she isn't getting my calmly hints that I'm not interested in what they are talking about. Shut UP! is right to the point.

Any how don't be sorry or feel that you have done something wrong. It's great to know another persons feeling and ideals. Keep up the good work, have a cup of tea, and enjoy reading and responding to more post.
Normaly I would be a total JERK and not even answer your questions but I'm in a good mood today.

As to why I replied to this post in the first place?
It didn't make sense to me in the first place so I thought I'd just throw my 2 cents into how I handle these odd situations of offensive converstaion that a dom and sub have. Come on, most relationships start off with conversation. I speak a good deal with e-mails, IM Chat, and on the phone with others before meeting them so we both have a good idea about weither or not we offend each other. If the Sub was to use a saftey word due to conversation, he/she might as well be telling the Dom to SHUT UP!. Telling you Dom to please change the subject is still saying SHUT UP. And I never heard of a Dom using a saftey word on the Sub. Sure there are words or gestures of meaning that can be done such as the snap of fingers and the evil eye but a safty word. I don't get it.

I will no longwe be reading this thread. If anyone wishes to know more about my post, just send me an e-mail on my profile.

NEXT!

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 10:04:17 PM

peppermint379

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ShiftedJewel,

I have used my safeword during conversations with my Dom. It was not used because anything hurtful was being said. It was used because i was getting too emotional about what was being discussed. When i get too emotional, i don't think clearly. Basically it was time to stop that topic for the moment. I suppose i could have just stated that i didn't want to talk about that particular subject anymore. However, that would not have given proper meaning. Apparently the topic was of importance or we wouldn't be discusing it. So, a later continuation would be needed.

By safewording....i meant that i couldn't talk about that right now. It meant that i needed time to get calmed down....to get my emotions and feelings under control. Then.....later...always the next day, we could again discuss whatever it was and why the safeword was used. It worked for us. (shrugs) Many will not agree that this is a good thing to do.....but it worked for us.

By the way....he also was able to safeword a conversation.

pepper

(in reply to ShiftedJewel)

Post #: 17

RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 10:09:45 PM

LdyAuburn

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Have to say until I had read this thread I had never heard nor thought of someone safe wording in a conversation. I would have thought ' this is distressing me I need to have a break' would have sufficed. Obviously not

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 11:00:15 PM

Cyis75

Posts: 164
Joined: 8/31/2004
From: Georgia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LdyAuburn

Have to say until I had read this thread I had never heard nor thought of someone safe wording in a conversation. I would have thought ' this is distressing me I need to have a break' would have sufficed. Obviously not

Funny, but true story... Was once in the car driving along while holding a conversation with my submissive... I can't recall the actual conversation topic but doesn't really matter... All of a sudden she yells out "Red!!!" and I immediately without hesitating cease the conversation only to have her then say "No, Red light!" and point at the up coming stop light at the intersection we were about to go through...

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RE: More then one use for safewords - 1/25/2005 11:03:47 PM

LdyAuburn

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Joined: 5/9/2004
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Actually relate to that, I rarely drive my car my submissive does most of the driving (under the guise of serivce

though I have a faint suspicion he just hates being driven by me) I said to him about going right so he promptly changed lanes. When I looked at him most perplexed and asked why he said 'you told me to go right'
We both laughed but it was a good realisation of how ingrained somethings are

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Post #: 20

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