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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 2:37:13 PM   
missturbation


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

1.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about Americans being armed with personal weapons?
Hmm could be something to do with high gun crime figures. Students etc walking into schools with shot guns and killing all those in their way? Plus i think all u americans are crazy and thats reason enough .

2.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about American politics?
Im british and im not accept that our prime minister had his head so far up your presidents arse that americas fuck ups become ours.

3.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about thier own problems?
Because we are british - stiff upper lip and all that bullshit.

4.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about the loss of power of their Queen?
Did the queen really ever have any power?

Anyone got any ideas?
Plenty.


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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 3:11:45 PM   
agirl


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quote:

ORIGINAL: caitlyn

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I'm quite happy for anyone to *take apart* UK culture, politics and anything else about it....it's not as if my idea of myself is totally wrapped up in it. 


There is no need to take apart your culture. You live in a beautiful country with very friendly people.
 
There are many things about your country that I don't understand ... but since it isn't my country ... I just STFU.
 
Take a look at the treads concerning politics in the UK on this board. Do you see Americans getting in there and hammering the fuck out of you guys? No, you don't ... because you have the right to have things how you want them, in your own country.
 
Then again, we are really only taking about three or four people. I myself thing you should send NorthernGent over here to the US, so we can shoot him with one of our legal guns, and make him stay in our shitty heathcare system for a while.


I have no idea as I haven't looked this way for quite a few months.

It's a beautiful country without a doubt...friendly people.........all of them?.....grin

Whether I have the *right* to have things the way I want in my own country is REALLY debatable...lol

The point I was making is that I wouldn't be bothered if Americans *hammered the fuck* out of anything UK coloured.......It's not a personal attack on me , just the place I happened to have been spawned in.

agirl

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 3:42:14 PM   
KenDckey


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I always thought that the British Monarch had power.   After all didn't Henry or somebody go around lopping off heads.   If the Monarch is only a symbol then why should the people pay for all their stuff.   I was trained that royalty had to have a profession.   Why don't they practice it (other than those in the military).

The post was a series of questions for my own edification.   I really am courious.   Just doesn't make good sense to me that some of the posters are so involved in our political situation.   If they were diplomats, then it would be their job.   They surely don't believe, at least I don't think, that they can influence American Politics regardless of whatever tricks and stuff they do (some of them anyway).

Maybe it is just to piss people off because they can.   I don't know.   but back to the original  post please everyone.  I want your opinion

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 4:59:39 PM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger
You need to let these posts roll off your back a little more, or you're not going to make it to thirty-five . I don't see meatcleaver or the Gent attacking Americans per se, I see them attacking those who formulate policy. They know we have a symbiotic relationship, and have been just as critical on their end.


It's not that the posts bother me, as much as I feel some stupid need to call out people that make them.
 
I should probably back off ... chances are good I just need to get some actual sleep now and then.

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 5:09:42 PM   
philosophy


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...the british monarchy is merely a constitutional monarchy nowadays........technically all laws passed by the house of commons require Royal Assent (Queenies signature) to beceome law, but it is usually reckoned that the first time she chooses to treat this as anything other than a formality  we will become a republic the following week. The real power in the UK lies with parliament, nowhere else. Historically Kings and Queens had much more power, but this was severely curtailed, often by lopping the heads off unpopular monarchs. Ken, try goggling Oliver Cromwell for a more in depth view of how we shifted from being a monarchy to a democracy.

As for why us mere ordinary people have an opinion on US politics, i invite you to consider something that came up in an earlier thread regarding the relationship between a military and the civilians they serve. In a democracy you don;t want a bunch of sheep without opinions making choices, you want people who want to know whats going on......who have an opinion......in short, people who care. It has been argued that a major difference between UK and US culture is that ordinary people in the UK routinely care about foreign policy, while the average American could care less. Think of countries as being people in a room......how one person treats another in that room affects all people, albeit indirectly. The US, as the only remaining super-power, affects every life on the planet, albeit indirectly. Therefore we all have an opinion.

From your earlier posts in this and other threads i dont reckon you to be one of those people who think people should just shut up.......having an opinion and voicing it isn't just a democratic freedom....it is a duty for all those who consider themselves part of the free world. Those we fight against are those who tell us to shut up and do as we are told. To paraphrase something on an American bumper sticker.......you can silence my opinion only from my cold, dead lips. 

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 5:44:23 PM   
LadyEllen


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quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

I always thought that the British Monarch had power.   After all didn't Henry or somebody go around lopping off heads.   If the Monarch is only a symbol then why should the people pay for all their stuff.   I was trained that royalty had to have a profession.   Why don't they practice it (other than those in the military).

The post was a series of questions for my own edification.   I really am courious.  


Hi Ken

Pleased to hear youre as interested in our history and we are in your politics LOL!

Honestly though - please ask anything you want about British history? There's plenty of people here who can fill in the blanks.

Short version British history (as it leads to modern Britain at least);

500BC - the Welsh start arriving, until about 200BC
c. 50AD - the Romans make a recce (Julius Caesar)
c. 100AD - the Romans come to stay; Boudicca/Boadacea, Roman settlement (best preserved in Bath, near Bristol and of course Hadrian's Wall as the border between England and Scotland to this day - there is another wall further north which was abdandoned). Constantine governor of Roman Britain - later to become Emperor and install Christianity across the Empire
c. 400AD - the Romans make a sharp exit; Anglo Saxons arrive, first as mercenaries for the Romano-British to protect them from the Picts from Scotland, then to settle and form England, (pushing the Welsh into Wales, Cornwall, Cumbria and southwest Scotland), as seven kingdoms.
c.800AD - the Vikings start raiding Britain, then settling in the northern and eastern parts in the main. King Alfred of Wessex resists (burning cakes in the process), Agreement reached with the Vikings that they can stay if they stop their advance; this is why English has two main accents - northern (Viking) and southern (Anglo Saxon).
c.900AD - overkingship of England passes between Viking Danish and English royal houses
1066 - last Anglo Saxon king dies without a clear heir. There are 3 claimants - a Norwegian Viking (Harald Hardraada), a Norman Viking (William) and an English nobleman (Harold  Godwinson). Harold beats Harald in the north after the Norwegian comes to claim, but loses to William in the south. William becomes King. French language introduced and mixes with Germanic Anglo Saxon over following centuries to make modern English.
1066 to 15th century - a succession of kings of England of more or less French origin, with their French lands being prime and England as their colony; Richard the Lionheart, King John, Runnymeade, Robin Hood, constant wars to defend territory in France, Agincourt, Crecy etc, knights on horses and so on. Wars in France end with the loss of the last bit still belonging to the English crown, the port of Calais (20 miles from Dunkirk). Wars of the Roses ends with Henry Tudor taking power by defeating Richard III at Bosworth.
15-17th century - Tudor rule; Henry VII (Henry Tudor's son), Mary, Elizabeth. Protestantism takes off. Persecution of Catholics. First settlement in N America. Elizabeth I dies without an heir, so Scottish king James is installed as king of England - king James Bible, gunpowder plot. James son Charles I, gets into quarrels with parliament resulting in civil war, trial and execution of Charles I, installation of Cromwell as Lord Protector. Persecution of Irish catholics byCromwell in Ireland. Cromwell dies, Charles II invited to return under Parliament's terms - monarchy stripped of much of its power. Charles II succeeded by his brother James II, a avowed catholic and seen as a threat as such. Parliament invites William of Orange to rule with even less powers, James escapes. Battle of the Boyne in Ireland, to put catholics down for good for the moment. Disastrous attempt at empire by Scotland as an independent country ends in bankruptcy for the country, forcing it into the Act of Union with England in early 18th century - resented by Scots ever since. Jacobite wars as James and his descendants try to take the throne with aid of the Scottish clans sees his claim ended by terrible defeats. Clan system broken up over coming centuries and many Scots flee to the colonies.
18th & 19th century - German kings take over - the Georges. Empire expanded. Loss of the colonies to become the US. Lots of wars with France and allies. French revolution; Napoleonic wars, Battle of Trafalgar etc. Britain established as leading naval power and worldwide empire. Industrial revolution starts in Britain, to spread worldwide. Queen Victoria rules empire on which sun never sets, as head of state. Germany forms as united country and seen as a threat which starts the arms race leading to the first world war. Potato famine in Ireland leads to mass migration to the US and colonies.
20th century - detente with France, WWI. The rest I'll assume is more familar. another world war, decline, loss of empire and industrial leadership.

E

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 5:47:20 PM   
LadyEllen


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sorry forgot!

c. 500AD Augustine arrives to convert Anglo Saxons from heathenry. Finds Welsh Christians already doing the same. Roman Catholicism triumphs over Celtic Christianity. Christianity spreads as heathenry declines. Penda of Mercia last heathen king of England falls in battle c. 600AD.
E

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 6:08:43 PM   
WyrdRich


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      Toilet envy, plain and simple.  Their plumbing simply doesn't measure up and it has made them bitter.  Goes all the way back to WWII.  God help us if they ever figure what goes into Spam.

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/17/2006 7:54:11 PM   
KenDckey


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LOL  Rich      Actually they created one of the best sewer systems in the world.   They figured out that oval pipe works better than round ones in their sewer system.   They also created a society of sewer workers.  

OK   now that we have expended my knowledge of teh british   LOL

I do thank everyone for the insight.   Helps me understand.

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/18/2006 6:41:27 AM   
Arpig


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quote:

They surely don't believe, at least I don't think, that they can influence American Politics

This is where you are wrong. If enough Americans are persuaded to change their view, and the way they vote, that could be enough to change the course of American politics.......

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/18/2006 6:55:11 AM   
meatcleaver


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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

    Toilet envy, plain and simple.  Their plumbing simply doesn't measure up and it has made them bitter.  Goes all the way back to WWII.  God help us if they ever figure what goes into Spam.


Naah. Two and a half hours travel can take me to London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Amsterdam, Brussels, Vienna, Copenhagen, Stockholm, all great cities with a great heritage and culture. As much as I enjoy my visits to the USA, I know which side of the Atlantic I'd rather live on and it might surprise you to find out how many Americans think so too.

< Message edited by meatcleaver -- 10/18/2006 6:56:26 AM >

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/18/2006 10:22:59 PM   
nefertari


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

1.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about Americans being armed with personal weapons?

I doubt they are, but so many Americans won't shut up about it, so the rest of the world really has no choice but to get involved.

quote:

2.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about American politics?

I doubt they are, but so many Americans won't shut up about it, so the rest of the world really has no choice but to get involved.

quote:

3.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about thier own problems?

Oh they are, believe me, but so many Americans don't really give a fuck about anything beyond their borders so they just don't notice it.


(bold added by me)

*Applauds and Laughs*

There *is* a lot of truth to that, actually.  Americans have always been an arrogant lot in that the world revolves around us, so to speak.

Oh....and I'm an American.

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/18/2006 10:25:49 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Most intelligent British citizens are worried about the legal privileges that the Queen STILL RETAINS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

4.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about the loss of power of their Queen?

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/19/2006 4:35:24 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Most intelligent British citizens are worried about the legal privileges that the Queen STILL RETAINS.



Yes. There are two issues here as follows:

1) The legal privileges held by the monarchy.
2) The wider implications for hereditary wealth and class structure.

On 1)

a) The relationship between the crown and Parliament means the Prime Minister can choose to invade a country without consenting anyone (in his role as Protector of the crown). In other words, the interests of the crown are of primary importance. This is far from a democracy.

b) At the trial of diana's butler (Paul Burrell) the queen intervened to gain an immediate acquittal. The implication being that under cross-examination he may have said something that would have undermined the monarchy's position. Regardless, if this woman and her family have no power then what exactly are they doing determining high-profile court cases?. The implication is that she has the power to determine justice. Furthermore, as the queen, she enjoyed immunity from being cross-examined as a witness on the statement she had made which led to his acquittal.

c) When the Prime Minister uses royal prerogatives the House of Commons is powerless and MPs are not even permitted to debate any Bill which touches on the prerogatives without the express consent of the queen herself. To add insult to injury, every minister, MP, bishop, judge, mayor and serving officer is required by law to swear a personal oath of allegiance to the queen before taking office (even though MPs have been elected).

On 2,

Effectively, the monarchy legitimise a fuedal class structure within which everyone is expected to know their place and keep it, bowing and scraping to those who are supposed to be superior in rank, like the Lords.

Conclusion:

The key point is as follows: the royal prerogatives allow the Prime Minister to by-pass dissenting MPs on decisions such as war, appointing judges, bishops and other chairs of public authority all without any parliamentary authority. It is completely undemocratic.

Solutions:

1) All royal prerogatives should be transferred from the crown to the House of Commons so that the Prime Minister of the day would have to seek all of his authority from elected MPs (and by extension wider society).

2) The entire legal system should be disentangled from the nonsense that justice is dispensed in the name of the queen and re-established independently as in all other civilised countries.

3) The House of Lords should be replaced by an elected senate i.e. rather than being born into a position the Lords are elected and thus legitimately entitled to form a section of governance.

4) We should elect our own Head of State and liberate the Windsor family to live their own lives so we can live ours under a democracy. The personalities are not the issue. Rather, it is one of heriditary power and a lack of democracy. 



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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/19/2006 11:25:55 PM   
Dtesmoac


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1.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about Americans being armed with personal weapons?
Were all like Mary Poppins and worry about people hurting them selves...don't you tell your children not to play with matches???
2.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about American politics?
Were the biggest investor in the US and the US is the biggest investor in the UK. We have a lot of relations in the US. We're interestind in lots of countries especially ones that have governments that don't consider the consequences of all their actions....or don't care about them.... Some people in the UK view its future as being either part of the EU or part of the US.........!!!
3.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about thier own problems?
What problems.....vandalism, rising crime, primary target for muslim terrorists, crap football team.......Blair....!!

4.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about the loss of power of their Queen?
As explained by others...however one point the Armed forces swear allegiance to the queen but are directed by the government, its very difficult for a military takeover to occur in the UK..........

Anyone got any ideas?
Brits have loads of them and have invented a great many wonderous items and technologies, which the US made money on, e.g. catappilar tracks etc.........
 
Ref an earlier point, English is the global langauge only because the secod successive global power speaks the same langauge as its predecessor. Personally I' dont think britain ever really was a military super power, normally it got the natives to fight amongst themselves and then got the Brits to police the peace........we're just a bunch of piratical con artists at heart. 

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/20/2006 7:03:57 AM   
KenDckey


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Con Artists   Hmmmmmm  now that I can believe.   LOL

I once traded two second Lieutenants and a sargeant to a British Regimental Sargeant Major for some British cots.  I understand that the ladies had a hell of a time in the Sargeants Mess.

I liked the way the cots could be turned into a hamock and had a spring steel frame.    Was way comfortable, much lighter than Armerican ones and easy to assemble.

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/20/2006 7:33:59 AM   
caitlyn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dtesmoac
2.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about American politics?
Were the biggest investor in the US and the US is the biggest investor in the UK. We have a lot of relations in the US. We're interestind in lots of countries especially ones that have governments that don't consider the consequences of all their actions....or don't care about them.... Some people in the UK view its future as being either part of the EU or part of the US.........!!!


This is a very good point, and one I had not considered. Thank you.

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RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/20/2006 9:33:53 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nefertari

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

1.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about Americans being armed with personal weapons?

I doubt they are, but so many Americans won't shut up about it, so the rest of the world really has no choice but to get involved.

quote:

2.  Why are the British so worried or concerned or whatever about American politics?

I doubt they are, but so many Americans won't shut up about it, so the rest of the world really has no choice but to get involved.

quote:

3.  Why aren't the British so worried or concerned or whatever about thier own problems?

Oh they are, believe me, but so many Americans don't really give a fuck about anything beyond their borders so they just don't notice it.


(bold added by me)

*Applauds and Laughs*

There *is* a lot of truth to that, actually.  Americans have always been an arrogant lot in that the world revolves around us, so to speak.

Oh....and I'm an American.



nefertari, I've spent a fair amount of time in Ireland and met loads of Americans (mainly in the South West of Ireland) and to a man/woman they have been polite and warm. A credit to their country.

If you were to ask a question on foreign policy, or other issues, to any people there will always be a minority of people who get very egdey and deem these questions to be personal. We have exactly the same here. The enquiring and open minded majority do not need to apologise for the minority.



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I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/20/2006 10:29:25 AM   
Sinergy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

   Toilet envy, plain and simple.  Their plumbing simply doesn't measure up and it has made them bitter.  Goes all the way back to WWII.  God help us if they ever figure what goes into Spam.


Naah. Two and a half hours travel can take me to London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Amsterdam, Brussels, Vienna, Copenhagen, Stockholm, all great cities with a great heritage and culture. As much as I enjoy my visits to the USA, I know which side of the Atlantic I'd rather live on and it might surprise you to find out how many Americans think so too.


Hello A/all,

I live in the Harbor area of a city I call Smell-A.  I grew up here.

There is a road which parallels the pacific ocean called "pacific coast highway" and the guiding principle of my childhood was that there is no life east of that street.

I lived for almost 2 years in Europe.  There are nice places there.  There are not so nice places there.  I have never been an overly big fan of big cities, although I could live in the Northern end of the Netherlands on the Zuiderzee, Roma, Venizia, the Cote D'Azur, or Kobnhaven and be perfectly happy.

To me, life is not where you are, it is what you make of where you are.

Sinergy

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: So I was sitting here wondering - 10/20/2006 10:41:23 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: meatcleaver

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyrdRich

  Toilet envy, plain and simple.  Their plumbing simply doesn't measure up and it has made them bitter.  Goes all the way back to WWII.  God help us if they ever figure what goes into Spam.


Naah. Two and a half hours travel can take me to London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, Madrid, Amsterdam, Brussels, Vienna, Copenhagen, Stockholm, all great cities with a great heritage and culture. As much as I enjoy my visits to the USA, I know which side of the Atlantic I'd rather live on and it might surprise you to find out how many Americans think so too.


Hello A/all,

I live in the Harbor area of a city I call Smell-A.  I grew up here.

There is a road which parallels the pacific ocean called "pacific coast highway" and the guiding principle of my childhood was that there is no life east of that street.

I lived for almost 2 years in Europe.  There are nice places there.  There are not so nice places there.  I have never been an overly big fan of big cities, although I could live in the Northern end of the Netherlands on the Zuiderzee, Roma, Venizia, the Cote D'Azur, or Kobnhaven and be perfectly happy.

To me, life is not where you are, it is what you make of where you are.

Sinergy


Absolutely Sinergy. To add, there is good and bad everywhere so the opinion formed says as much about the holder of the opinion as it does about the place itself  i.e. does the person want to concentrate on the good or the bad? For example, anyone coming to Manchester will see good and bad all over the show - personally, I love the place because for me it is the most English of English cities - a pessimist will home in on the bad, an optimist will concentrate on the good and use this as a basis for opinion.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Sinergy)
Profile   Post #: 60
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