Jealousy (Full Version)

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MHOO314 -> Jealousy (1/25/2005 7:18:00 AM)

I am curious about your issues with jealousy--do you Master/Mistress either conduct scenes with other play partners ( play only, no sexual involved) or have a very active social or work circle that is large, demanding-- do your subs/slaves get jealous, do they feel jelaousy, does it drive their behavior? How do you manage this behavior? Especially in a long term relationship or a LDR.



Redb -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 7:35:53 AM)

My mentor (and sometime master) has other mentorees and playmates that i know of. The nature of the relationship is such that we were vanilla lovers for a long time before i discovered BDSM, and then found out about his 20-odd years experience in BDSM. In this relationship, i've never experienced Jealousy from either side. We have a healthy respect for each others lives and revel in each others conquests.
I had a sub playmate who had a complete meltdown when i told him i hadnt returned his calls one night because i was with my slave, i said i considered it bad Mistress ettiquite. He went nuts, regardless of the fact that he knew about my slave from when we first met. I couldnt abide his throwing his toys out of his pram so i blocked him for three days and told him to calm down, sort his head out and come back with an apology. He came back with an apology but said he felt 2nd rate and wanted to feel more important. So i released him.
I can understand Jealousy if a sub or playmate doesnt know about another sub or playmate but if the relationship is discussed and conditions agreed upon right from the start, and then they change their emotional reaction for no reason, i find it unacceptable.
I think it can be similar in the Vanilla world also. People have no-strings-attached lovers and once that lover knows the lie of the land and agrees upon certian respectful conditions, then there is no reason for either party to change the emotional terms of the relationship without letting the other person know.



MsCameron -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 7:54:00 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Redb

I can understand Jealousy if a sub or playmate doesnt know about another sub or playmate but if the relationship is discussed and conditions agreed upon right from the start, and then they change their emotional reaction for no reason, i find it unacceptable.


In a perfect world, I agree with you. But it's not. While the head may tell you that you are being unreasonable, the heart is a different matter all together.

I was in the middle of a 3 way relationship for years. Everything was discussed up front and there were no secrets or hidden agendas. People get jealous. It may be something that hits you out of the blue or may be the smallest of actions that just doesn't sit well but that's what happens when emotions are involved.

MsC



Redb -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 7:58:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MsCameron


quote:

ORIGINAL: Redb

I can understand Jealousy if a sub or playmate doesnt know about another sub or playmate but if the relationship is discussed and conditions agreed upon right from the start, and then they change their emotional reaction for no reason, i find it unacceptable.


In a perfect world, I agree with you. But it's not. While the head may tell you that you are being unreasonable, the heart is a different matter all together.

I was in the middle of a 3 way relationship for years. Everything was discussed up front and there were no secrets or hidden agendas. People get jealous. It may be something that hits you out of the blue or may be the smallest of actions that just doesn't sit well but that's what happens when emotions are involved.

MsC



Thats very true. I've been in vanilla relationships where all rhyme and reason go out the window but i'm a firm believer that you shouldnt agree to an open relationship if you cant handle it. If you need a certain amount of reassurance sometimes thats fine once both partners are aware of whats happening. No-one will ever not want to be told that they are the best, the only one, the most important etc. I just find it hard to understand why some people go into an open relationship and then moan about it. A wee bug-bear of mine [;)]



match2u -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 8:06:11 AM)

i do totally agree with the point - why you step into an open relation when you already know - it is something you do not feel comfortable with.

i do consider myself as a jeaulous person - at least it means i am honest to myself, and to my emotions, my feelings.

i have much more problems when i get blamed for - that i am honest about that point and people tell me - it show less self-esteem.

and so i agree with MsCameron mentioend: It may be something that hits you out of the blue or may be the smallest of actions that just doesn't sit well but that's what happens when emotions are involved.


love and hug

petra



MsCameron -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 8:28:26 AM)

quote:

Thats very true. I've been in vanilla relationships where all rhyme and reason go out the window but i'm a firm believer that you shouldnt agree to an open relationship if you cant handle it. If you need a certain amount of reassurance sometimes thats fine once both partners are aware of whats happening. No-one will ever not want to be told that they are the best, the only one, the most important etc. I just find it hard to understand why some people go into an open relationship and then moan about it. A wee bug-bear of mine


The problem is that often people go into these types of relationships convinced they CAN handle it only to find out it's much more difficult.

It's a learning curve that is not alway pleasant or successful.

I maintained two full time committed relationships. One was with my Dominant partner (not my Dom) and the other with my collared submissive.
I was with my partner for 5 years till it ended last June and my submissive has been with me for almost 4 years.

lol reminds me of the song "stuck in the middle with you".

While all of us were/are rational people and knew what we getting into, it still had it's jealousy issues. The amount of time spent with both was an issue. I often found myself sitting on a fence trying to keep everyone happy and in the long run, that never works.

I've often wondered if I would do it again and frankly, I don't think I would. Sometime the best intentions are not enough.

By the way, welcome to the forums :) I'm enjoying your posts :)

MsC

** even though it had it's problems, my relationship with my partner did not end because of the lifestyle**






ProtagonistLily -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 9:22:53 AM)

quote:

The problem is that often people go into these types of relationships convinced they CAN handle it only to find out it's much more difficult.


I, in all honesty, do not handle 'triads' very well, regardless of my station in them. There is a notion that 'kinksters' are somehow immediately able to trasition from monogomy to poly relationships. I think this is false. I think there are many of us, with standing in our communities, who for what ever reason choose not to engage in poly relationships if those relationships are of an intimately sexual nature.

Having said that, I am able to play with others without the jealosy factor. I'm very clear about that with anyone who is interested in entering my life as a more than casual play partner or more. I enjoy playing with a variety of submissives, and I do not feel I need to stop that just because someone else's nose is out of joint. I engage in this behavior because it's enjoyable for me. Being a Dominant, especially one with the responsibility of ongoing play partners or more, is a responsibility. And part of that responsibility means being up front and honest about how, and to a degree who, I like to play with.

Now, I tend to play with other people in public play party settings. I'm not very inclined to play privately with a sub that I don't have at least some kind of intimate involvement from. So it's really no secret that I have a wide variety of bottoms I enjoy Topping. And many of these folks have other Tops they enjoy bottoming to as well.

I find that secrecy is very fertile ground for jealousy, and I try to be very upfront and pragmatic with others so that the amount of jealousy is minimized.

The above comments are in absolutely no way meant to minimize anyone elses jealousy issues. I've seen many a good kinky relationship blow up because of jealousy, so I know it's a real issue for some folks.

Lily



MsCameron -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 9:58:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily

I, in all honesty, do not handle 'triads' very well, regardless of my station in them. There is a notion that 'kinksters' are somehow immediately able to trasition from monogomy to poly relationships. I think this is false. I think there are many of us, with standing in our communities, who for what ever reason choose not to engage in poly relationships if those relationships are of an intimately sexual nature.


Agreed :) however, I have found it's not the sexual intimacy that seems to be the BIG issue but rather the emotional intimacy.

Like you, I play with others on a casual basis and enjoy it very much. To me there's a huge difference between playing and maintaining a committed emotional relationship.

Good thread :)

Regards,
MsC




Redb -> RE: Jealousy (1/25/2005 12:31:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ProtagonistLily


I find that secrecy is very fertile ground for jealousy, and I try to be very upfront and pragmatic with others so that the amount of jealousy is minimized.



I have to say that i agree with this comment entirely. I think honesty is one of the key issues not just in Vanilla relationships but BDSM too. If you suspect that a play partner is lying to you about their other relationships, it will impact every other side of the relationship. If a sub were to tell me that he had to cancel seeing me one evening because he was unwell, and then i saw him out and about with someone else, it would make me wonder not only WHY he felt he had to lie, but also what else he could lie so easily about.



spinntja -> RE: Jealousy (1/28/2005 7:31:33 AM)

This is an issue I face on a daily basis. As a general rule, I insist that a would-be partner understand the difference between jealousy and envy and be adept at recognizing and reporting those feelings. If she can do that, then we can start talking.

A practical, but cruel, way to check the feasibility of a potential partner is to provoke her jealousy and, if she handles it with grace, to provoke my own. (Not too hard: send her out on a date with some perfect woman who keeps forgetting my name, then see if my feelings are within a range that would allow me to maintain self control.)

Practical tips:

0. Move slowly. Keep tabs on yourself. Don't get carried away.

1. Have a support network. Have friends. Be sure your potential partners have friends. Do not obsess, and do not let them obsess.

2. Yahoo! or MSN calendars are a wonderful thing. This is particularly useful if your partners are involved not just with you, but also with each other. Schedule early and publicly. (And no, you do not have to detail your plans. A simple "unavailable" should suffice. The person to whom you *are* available at that time will know who she is. If the others cannot deal with that, then you already have a problem.)

3. Be very up front, all the time. Be able to say "no." Be sure your partners can handle hearing "no." Be able to accept "no."

4. Check yourself and your partners frequently. My habit of starting conversations with "How jealous are you today? And how envious?" has provoked parodies locally.

5. Maintain contact. Journals, daily messages, the scheduled one-line IM... all wonderful little ways to caress someone who is not with you.

6. Stay away from monogamous people. Really. This has been my biggest headache. Be *sure* your partners are not *settling for* a multiple-partner relationship, but that they *want* it.

Good luck! -- SJ



wyngedbyste -> RE: Jealousy (1/28/2005 3:13:42 PM)

I am a poly dominant married to a mono slave.

I live an open lifestyle and, while I've offered my slave the option of forming other relationships, he chooses not to. He suffers from agonizing jealousy over my lifestyle. I've made concessions to his feelings that have limited my ability to form the relationships I'd like. It's constricting at times, but relationships call for compromise.

Sure, there are times I feel jealous. However, I handle the feelings instead of allowing them to handle me. I'm lucky. My slave can't do this.

I think that everyone feels jealous at some time. The difference is in how the feelings are handled.

Byste



sub4hire -> RE: Jealousy (1/28/2005 3:26:55 PM)

quote:

poly dominant married to a mono slave


Ok, I'm lost. Can someone explain this to me.
Poly Dominant meaning more than one.
Married. But poly. To a monogamous slave...meaning one.

So married...with many...yet married to a single? Who then shares her Dominant and husband with many others?

Anyone else confused?



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Jealousy (1/28/2005 6:40:18 PM)

quote:

quote:

poly dominant married to a mono slave

Ok, I'm lost. Can someone explain this to me.
Poly Dominant meaning more than one.
Married. But poly. To a monogamous slave...meaning one.

So married...with many...yet married to a single? Who then shares her Dominant and husband with many others?

Anyone else confused?


No, I"m not. I think he means he's allowed to have many slaves, but she's only allowed to serve him.

L



LdyAuburn -> RE: Jealousy (1/28/2005 8:19:25 PM)

I thought the dominant was female and the slave male?
Anyway wynged you feel jealous inthe non marriage relationships? The relationships that adds the poly component?



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Jealousy (1/28/2005 8:29:52 PM)

quote:

I thought the dominant was female and the slave male?
Anyway wynged you feel jealous inthe non marriage relationships? The relationships that adds the poly component?


LOL...ok, now I'm really confused.

Without being gender specific, I assumed the Dominant person was able to see others while keeping the slave/submissive exclusively for the Dominant.

Then again, I could be wrong....Perhaps the original poster could be more specific?

Lily



sub4hire -> RE: Jealousy (1/29/2005 7:21:22 AM)

quote:

No, I"m not. I think he means he's allowed to have many slaves, but she's only allowed to serve him.


Ok, I understood what you said but I still do not understand. Make sense?
Poly is having many. Got that.

Main Entry: mo·nog·a·my
Pronunciation: -mE
Function: noun
Etymology: French monogamie, from Late Latin monogamia, from Greek, from monogamos monogamous, from mon- + gamos marriage, from gamein to marry
Date: 1612
1 : archaic : the practice of marrying only once during a lifetime
2 : the state or custom of being married to one person at a time
3 : the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time <monogamy is common among birds>
- mo·nog·a·mous /m&-'nä-g&-m&s/ also mono.gam.ic adjective
- mo·nog·a·mous·ly adverb

Pronunciation Key

© 2001 by Merriam-Webster, Incorporated
Merriam-Webster Privacy Policy


Monogamous having one. Got that as well. So, while I am with my poly dom and many of his subs are with us. Am I still monogamous even thougth the lines are clearly crossing?
Why would I share when in my mind I am monogamous and I don't have to share?



ProtagonistLily -> RE: Jealousy (1/29/2005 8:03:21 AM)

quote:

Monogamous having one. Got that as well. So, while I am with my poly dom and many of his subs are with us. Am I still monogamous even thougth the lines are clearly crossing?
Why would I share when in my mind I am monogamous and I don't have to share?


That would be something you would have to negotiate between you and your domainant. I have no idea what's right for you, I was merely commenting on the words as I saw them, and trying to figure out what the person meant. I was not giving my opinion as to their correctness or incorrectmess for their particular relationship.

Lily



LadyBadger -> RE: Jealousy (1/29/2005 9:06:15 AM)

I'm very social & outgoing in my local community... I have a collared sub as well as a Dominant male partner... my sub gets my attention when he's with me (currently every other weekend)... there's been times when I've played him, then scened another afterwards... my SO often helps me with setting up my scenes (laying out toys, etc.) ... neither of them have any issue(s) with me playing with others as we're usually out at a local dungeon, not at home... in fact, my sub loves helping me when I scene another...

my SO may get "jealous" if I don't ensure that he gets the lion's share of my attention and sub respects that... if anything, sub serves the both of us and loves the attention he gets from the 2 of us... so far it's working well and has since I collared sub in June 2004...

the oddest experience I've ever had wrt multiiple relationships & jealousy was when 4 of us (2 couples) formed an alliance/friendship that appeared "threatening" to others... now this was primarily online though we all knew one another real-time/offline as well... at the time, it seemed that many were not used to such cooperative, non-jealous arrangements... I wondered at the time how this personal friendship was any business of anyone else not involved, but perhaps they wanted to be part of this specialness... I don't know -- all I know is that we were "whispered about" behind our backs and otherwise vilified... ::shrug:: we lost a few friends and gained some new ones... oh well...



sub4hire -> RE: Jealousy (1/29/2005 10:44:14 AM)

quote:

I'm very social & outgoing in my local community... I have a collared sub as well as a Dominant male partner... my sub gets my attention when he's with me (currently every other weekend)...


Deb,
How is Brian anyway? Its been ages since we've seen you. Ron and I just were talking about the two of you the other day. Wondering if you were still together.

Hmm, my name is not the same as the one you normally know. Will she know me here?



LadyAngelika -> RE: Jealousy (1/29/2005 11:05:13 AM)

quote:

I am curious about your issues with jealousy--do you Master/Mistress either conduct scenes with other play partners ( play only, no sexual involved) or have a very active social or work circle that is large, demanding-- do your subs/slaves get jealous, do they feel jelaousy, does it drive their behavior? How do you manage this behavior? Especially in a long term relationship or a LDR.


A few moments ago, I posted something on the topic of jealousy in another thread which is relevant to this topic.

However, I'd like to add something in regards specifically to being a Domme with multiple subs.

I don't believe most submissives that I have taken on because they have never felt short changed. I know they have had to deal with issues of jealousy but there are ways of working through that. One of the ways I find most effective is cuckolding play or two submissives serving play followed by alone time with them where I tell them how much I was proud of the way they faced their fears and how much I appreciate them as a sub. Positive reinforcement after a traumatizing experience is one way around this.

Other things that help with managing these issues are:

Making expectations clear. There are subs that I will have no sexual relationship with. I have less and less of those I’ll admit because they don’t do much for me. But now and then I’ll find an eager submissive willing to serve in ways other then sexual and it will work.

I never take on more then I can handle. If I am to take on a submissive, I need to make sure that I can give her/him the attention that they require (notice I did not say expecting). Oddly enough, the man who explained this concept to me was a Muslim man explaining the concept of harems.

Not all Dom/mes will agree with me on this and that's ok. But that is my approach to this lifestyle. When it doesn’t work out, immediate action needs to be taken:

If a submissive has been notified of this and still whines about wanting to be played with sexually, then I cut them off quickly. There is no way one can rationalise with someone who doesn’t have the maturity to accept the ground rules. I do not entertain drama!

If someone isn't doing it for me and I'm not getting what I want from them, I'd sooner release them then start avoiding them. I find that to be utterly immature and contrary to the very essence of dominance.

- LA



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