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RE: "Problem solved" - 10/19/2006 4:21:39 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

the concept of fairness is a human one, one that we impose on the world. As humans with the ability to make choices we can choose whether or not to be fair......just because it isn't necessarily present in nature doesn't mean we have no ethical or moral imperative to be fair. As machine building and tool using animals we modify nature continually, the ability to be fair is among those qualities that distinguish us as a species.

philosophy,
Although I'd argue that the concept of UN-fairness is more human than fairness, I'll accept that's a result of my cynical and skeptical belief in collective human goodness. However, your post does suggest that at the very least fairness is not natural based upon the sentence that I highlighted.

As a person, mostly human, I agree and sincerely try to have all my interactions with other humans ethically and morally fair. I hope I live my life with the hope of being fair to all. That is personal.

As a person whose closest identification to a religion is "devote pragmatist" I live in a world where the vast majority of "powers that be" do not have such personal integrity, morality, or sense of fairness. Therefore, the best I can hope for in people is that they be consistent. I appreciate and honor consistency, even if that consistency is in direct opposition to my sense of fairness and correctness, or if it's consistently immoral and corrupt. Why? Because I can deal with it. It represents reality. It helps to make pragmatic decisions.

To be unilaterally "fair" will not accomplish anything. I see no indication that any attempt at fairness is fair to all. Consider the attempt of correcting injustices done in the past. By the very nature of the action it creates current "un-fairness" which in turn generates resentment, alienation, and in the worst case - war. No it isn't "fair". But then that's why I find it easier to accept that life, in general isn't, and will never be fair.

There are many who work harder than me and are smarter; but I make 100 times as much. I am smarter and work harder than many making 100 times more than me. Neither situation is fair, but there is only one situation I can do anything about - me. I can't go back in the past and re-do college, or start over in a different career path. I can set a goal and work hard to achieve it. If I do achieve or not may depend as much on luck and opportunity as it does fairness. Just as all of the unfairness in human history. But the people who want to correct the un-fairness of poor immigrants or the original inhabitants of the land, now know as the United States, aren't supporting a self improvement program to work in the present. They want to look backward and ignore any current situation, law, or legal sovereignty. It serves their argument but it doesn't consider reality, or present a viable solution. Comparing it again to my personal situation, fairness would come only if I can go back and be born as Bill Gates. When the time machine gets invented I may sign up for the long line for that opportunity. Meanwhile I still only expect 'fair' when I see a tall ferris wheel in the distance.

I'll settle for consistency instead; react to it, and be content.

(in reply to philosophy)

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RE: "Problem solved" - 10/19/2006 4:44:35 PM

philosophy

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Mercnbeth

i agree wholeheartedly with your suggestion that consistency is a highly valuable facet of a human being. It is for this reason that i respect Popeye (apologies for singling you out Popeye, but this is meant as a compliment) although i disagree with much of what he says. His principles are applied consistently, and in so doing he acts honourably. There are those on these fora who espouse a position but back away from it when it appears to inconvenience them.....that i find reprehensible (i shall name no names)
As for correcting the injustices of the past, i do see your point......however, where i may diverge is covered by the old adage 'those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it'. Unfairness in the past must be acknowledged, or those same injustices will simply be repeated ad nauseam, leading to exactly the same bad results you lay out as consequences of attempting to right historical wrongs.
i also agree that expecting fairness is a good way to become disillusioned really fast.......however noticing those who are fair or unfair and reacting accordingly seems to me only sensible. For instance, a politician who espouses an obviously unfair position or policy will not get my vote. An apparently fair politician is more likely to attract my attention.
Basically, i agree with much of what you say, but nevertheless i feel that the concept of fairness and unfairness is still important, a human artefact........and as such, to quote ol' shakerags, a consummation devoutly to be wished.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

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Post #: 62

RE: "Problem solved" - 10/19/2006 4:58:33 PM

Mercnbeth

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quote:

As for correcting the injustices of the past, i do see your point......however, where i may diverge is covered by the old adage 'those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it'. Unfairness in the past must be acknowledged, or those same injustices will simply be repeated ad nauseam, leading to exactly the same bad results you lay out as consequences of attempting to right historical wrongs.

philosophy,
I not only acknowledge it, I try to learn from it and make decisions based upon history. However, I won't be held hostage by it or feel guilty for it if my particular ancestry or sovereignty was the cause of historical injustice. I feel those who are held hostage and accept guilt, as opposed to recognizing there isn't a damn thing you can do about it in the present, cause more ongoing unfairness than my choice to recognize it for what it was and move on.

Ideally I wish I could be as the Amish are. During their recent tragedy in their community where a number of their children were killed, their only focus was on forgiveness. I don't know if you followed the situation, but the community in Pennsylvania near Philadelphia actually went out of their way to comfort the family of the man who was responsible for the murders. Going as far as using some of the money that was sent to them to set up a fund for the man's children. My GOD! If I only to had that ability to forgive, move forward, and accept what occurred without needing or wanting revenge or needing someone to blame.

(in reply to philosophy)

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Post #: 63

RE: "Problem solved" - 10/19/2006 5:49:32 PM

Sinergy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: gooddogbenji

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

It is safest to call people what they call themselves.

Ever used the "N" word on a black guy?

Yours,

benji

Yes, but Im a longshoreman, and they make allowances for "whitey" down there.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to gooddogbenji)

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RE: "Problem solved" - 10/19/2006 7:51:37 PM

Arpig