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Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 5:27:25 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		I've accepted the fact that most people don't give a fuck, but this is bad news:

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/earth/lookingatearth/ozone_record.html

Because supposedly the problem was more or less solved a few years ago.  Well, it wasn't.
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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 5:41:50 PM   
justheather


Posts: 1532
Joined: 10/4/2005
Status: offline 		I thought we were going to shoot some stuff that doesn't belong up there up there to cover up the hole.
Any progress on that?


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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 5:43:13 PM   
cuddleheart50


Posts: 9718
Joined: 2/20/2006
From: Kentucky
Status: offline 		It will only get worse and worse as time goes by, nothing can stop it.

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 6:18:08 PM   
Rule


Posts: 10479
Joined: 12/5/2005
Status: offline 		I wonder how much of that chlorine came from the oceans surrounding Antarctica.

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 6:38:13 PM   
WetHotGoddess


Posts: 128
Joined: 5/18/2006
Status: offline 		I give a fuck and intend to give many more.
 
seriously- pretty scarey shit. 

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 10:55:59 PM   
Dtesmoac


Posts: 565
Joined: 6/22/2006
Status: offline 		Weren't the reports for the previous 3 years that the hole had been smaller though? I'll need to check but the generale trend was that the co-operation on phasing out many ozone depleting chemicals had had a significant impact on reducing the extent of the hole.

 

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 11:01:01 PM   
knees2you


Posts: 2336
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline 		Your just NOW noticing this?
 
 
quote:

"Your the statue, not the pigion."

 
Ant, & LilBecque

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/19/2006 11:17:35 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		LaM;

I am surprised at you, but it's not all that bad. I thought you would know this :

The ozone scare is a total farce, there never was an ozone LAYER. As the atmosphere goes around (somewhat) with the planet, the centripital forces will cause certain gases to migrate to the equatorial plane. In other words, there was always a hole. Perhaps it has gotten bigger, but those moon shots and satellite launches screw it up too, but that is not mentioned, but now we have to buy freon at drastic prices, and give all our freon 12 to them. It is that urgent. Right.

Fact of the matter is for one, the areas of the Earth near the poles do not need much protection by ozone, because the sun's rays hit them at such an oblique angle. That is a simple matter of geometry they seem to have not mentioned. But when you need a hysteria, what do you do ? Facts kill people like this.

Number two, yes there is a two. The way the florine/ozone connection works, from what I am told, the florine acts as a catalyst, which means it is returned to it's original state for another cycle of turning two O3s into three O2s. The cycle repeats forever.

Now if I am "wrong", what I want to know is were thay lying then or are they lying now ? It is one or the other.

Anyway, are my eyes going bad or is direct sunlight a bit stronger than it used to be ? Perhaps the ozone "belt" really has shrunk, but was freon the biggest factor ?

So they made a bunch of money, go figure, but if what they said is true, we are doomed anyway. Of course there is the question of how the ozone got there in the first place. Perhaps it will replenish itself. Actually if we kept our sats and shuttles out of it, it just might. Without knowing how it originated we will never know.

Actually, even if this is a bigger problem than I deem it to be, there isn't a damthing anyone can do about it.

Be well, fuck the ozone.

T

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/20/2006 5:10:03 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline 		I knew I'd recently read that the permafrost melting in the arctic regions was releasing more methane and carbon dioxide than all the vehicles in the world combined...on a daily basis.  I also recall reading that this depleted the ozone layer, which increased temperatures (global warming), which caused more permafrost to melt...and so on.  No one can deny that the glaciers are melting more quickly than anticipated.

This article addresses the amounts of methane being released from the melting permafrost:

http://www.discover.com/issues/jan-06/features/environment/

In a recent rolling stone article Kurt Vonnegut was quoted as saying (regarding global warming and the depleting ozone layer) "It's over, my friend.  There is nothing we can do."

Not that Kurt Vonnegut is the last word in environmental issues, but I think his typically bleak outlook has some merit in this regard.





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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/20/2006 9:14:49 AM   
toservez


Posts: 1733
Joined: 9/7/2006
From: All over now in Minnesota
Status: offline 		You have the wrong perspective on things. This is very much like global warming. Sure you can worry about it after reading report after report on the subject and that for every one report that says there is no problem and paid for by polluters, there are ten reports that say it is a big problem but what good does that do?

To me you can have three choices.

1)Beleive the vast majority of scientest and try to do something and worry yourself.
2)Believe the minority reports and go on as normal.
3)Choose King George's favorite way of coping, just believe the science is not in on the subject and ignore it.

:)


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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/20/2006 9:27:05 AM   
ToGiveDivine


Posts: 650
Status: offline 		Once again, well put toservez

On global warming, yes, humans are having an impact, but so are volcanoes, and methane from cow turds, and the fact that the earth heats up and cools off on it's own.

A little over 100 years ago, we have a mini freeze that lasted about a dozen years - it snowed in July in Europe and the Americas one year.  Now it's warmed up again and it will cool off again too.

Can humans do anything?  On the grand scale of things, not much; we are only a cog in earth's machinery.  Mt. Saint Helens pumped more pollutants into the atmosphere than every automobile in history.  Mt. Pinatubo (sp) in the Phillipines was even bigger.

The earth does it's own thing and we are all along for the ride.  With that said, having clean air and rivers free from man-made pollutants is always a good thing.

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/20/2006 10:31:53 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		And don't discount increased solar activity for it's roll in global warming!
I'm just totally against any "U.N." wealth re-distribution program like that farce called "KYOTO."
I mean you can "trade" "pollution credits" which allow one country to* pollute* more than another country!!! How dumb is that?
China, Brazil, and Russia are by far the most poluted countries now!
The U.S. didn't even make the top ten in the latest list.
But, we in the U.S. have what's called Catylitic Converters on our cars now where most of the world does not.
I just don't want anything to do with something that the "U.N." is involved in.
Now somehow they're "experts" on global warming?
That's like opening up a candy store and then claiming to be an expert in electrical engineering.

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/21/2006 5:27:10 AM   
MizSuz


Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

That's like opening up a candy store and then claiming to be an expert in electrical engineering.


Or buying a whip and claiming to be a pro-domme?

I didn't say I was worried about it all, I said that I'd read some recent articles that cited some new studies regarding the effect of the melting of the permafrost on the ozone layer.  I didn't even say it was gospel.

I've always maintained that the earth's eco system will always balance itself out, one way or another.  If we think we can 'ruin' it we're suffering from an over inflated ego.  The earth will find its balance, even if we can't live in the balance it finds.


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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/21/2006 8:45:35 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah, it's the "even if" clause that bothers me just a little.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

The earth will find its balance, even if we can't live in the balance it finds.

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/22/2006 10:56:01 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Even if are some pretty big words. We might indeed go the way of dinosaurs.

They have done alot more damage to the climate with nuclear testing, even underground, the ground then acts as a giant speaker cone and moves air. A 15" woofer cone only needs to move ½ as far to produce the same output as a 12". If you have a grasp of mathematics, even without crunching numbers you can see the effect is pretty grand.

I have a hard time believing that "they" are so evil that they did it intentionally, but it is a definite possibility. Droughts and floods put "them" in the limelight as a saviour, coming to "help" you. Consider me a conspiracy hypothisist, oops, a cooperation hypothesist.

I believe the body of human knowledge is polluted, and it is done for the gain of some over others. As long as the almighty buck rules, that is how it will be.

I have forgotten too much, I don't really remember exactly what the angle is of the Earth's "off axis", what causes the seasons to change. It is not a drastic angle, so even with an ozone belt, we are covered. That is the ozone does not have to completely cover the poles. The sunlight still comes through the ozone in most places.

What will happen if the ozone were completely gone ? Unknown at this time, but I don't think the UV will have a big effect on the climate directly. Which species' of flora and fauna are not able to tolerate the elevated UV levels is unknown. Even if humans stay inside or wear protective clothing, these plants and animals which are our food may not survive, at least not all of them.

The biggest concern to anyone familiar with the environment is the effect on the oceans. When the sea dies, we die. Small flora, numbering in the googleilions produce most of our breathing oxygen. It needs to survive near the surface to do it's job.

Thing is, global warming is a concern, and everything we do makes heat. Even running an air conditioner makes heat. It is not only pumping the heat out of the room, it is also exhausting it's own waste heat. Everything we burn, almost everythig we do makes heat, and if it has anything to do with burning, also uses up oxygen. And bombs and shit like that use it up quite quickly.

Has anyone really addressed just what happens if the ozone is completely gone ? If it is true that flourine is a catalyst, it is already too late. How we survive in such an eventuality seems to be missing in the body of discussion of the subject.

Actually, even if all the oxygen producing flora are destroyed, it will not be a quick death. We would be looking at decreased O2 levels in the atmosphere, but gradually, over a period of time, alot of time. We would always have to wear protective clothing to go out. It is a bleak future, but it is a future nonetheless, that is until the O2 level in the atmosphere can no longer support us. Of course we don't really know that all the plankton et al. will just up and die. It could happen though.

I would be interested to know if there is a higher incidence of skin cancer (for example) in southern Austrailia for example. Or in the far north regions.

I think it is a valid question which should be explored, just what would happen if the ozone was all gone ? If the things I read a decade ago are true, it is going to happen. It is only a matter of time. The crackdown on freon 12 could only slow it down. The flourine is already up there, and I simply don't trust modern science to come up with a viable plan to fix it. They can't seem to fix anything these days.

I could see it now "We are going to send this chemical up to the ozone to remove the flourine". A bit later "Oops, the ozone is still there but now it doesn't filter UV anymore". But no, they didn't fuck up, they can do no wrong remember ?

I would like to see how the spin doctors handle something like that, just out of curiousity.

Big companies would make big money selling protective gear, and if you can believe it, there would probably be MORE replacement window ads on TV. "Don't let that nasty UV destroy your persian rugs", as you gasp for breath. Protective coating for your car so the paint doesn't fade, as you breathe from an oxygen concentrator.

Remember the movie "Total Recall" ? They were selling air, and of course there was a villain. The villain was in control of the air of course, and wasn't a very nice by the way.

In real life, people of power and influence did not get there by being nice.

T

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/22/2006 11:08:10 AM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline 		But isn't this a good thing?
That's how all that "global warming" hot air escapes the earth up through the ozone hole.
When there's more of it the hole expands just like an asshole when it's taking a dump.
Does anyone think that God would forget to give the earth a way of expelling gas?

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/22/2006 11:09:14 AM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Do you have children, popeye?

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/22/2006 5:00:08 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Do you have children, popeye?


L&M, nope, no kids but everytime I hear the doorbell ring I panic!

Having been in 50 foot seas onboard ships I loved it while some were scared. I like the power of nature.
I find it funny that when some people come to the realisation that the earth is dynamic and not static that they become frightened.

L&M, now here's a question for you.
Knowing now what we do about the "U.N." and it's absolute corruption in the last few years, would you believe *anything* they say anymore?

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/22/2006 6:52:41 PM   
Lordandmaster


Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline 		Who cares?  My link was from NASA.  I happen to know people at NASA.  So yeah, I believe what they say--that is, unless it's something I've been told they were forced to say by the Administration.  And I doubt the Administration is forcing them to say that the hole in the ozone layer is worse than originally thought.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Knowing now what we do about the "U.N." and it's absolute corruption in the last few years, would you believe *anything* they say anymore?


< Message edited by Lordandmaster -- 10/22/2006 6:53:32 PM >

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RE: Rut roh--ozone hole is worse than expected - 10/22/2006 7:07:08 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

Who cares?  My link was from NASA.  I happen to know people at NASA.  So yeah, I believe what they say--that is, unless it's something I've been told they were forced to say by the Administration.  And I doubt the Administration is forcing them to say that the hole in the ozone layer is worse than originally thought.

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Knowing now what we do about the "U.N." and it's absolute corruption in the last few years, would you believe *anything* they say anymore?



I don't know if bigger is neccessarily "worse."
I've heard that the size of it flucuates seasonally with the earth's tilt on it's axis and for a number of other reasons.
A million years from now I don't think anyone will really care anyway.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/22/2006 7:08:12 PM >

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