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RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 12:20:31 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

...No..tthings have changed actually.....I'm positive the truth about A LOT of things are coming out....and much more to come.

We should congratulate ourselves.

Don't despair.

This is very much in our favor...

I'm glad you think so. As for myself, I'm not about to bet the house on it just yet.

But please, tell us why you believe this.

From what I see in Britain I agree with subfever.

A small minority of people in this country have made their feelings known on the immorality of British forces and the British Government having a hand in bombing a place, imposing harsh sanctions and killing civilians in their thousands.

Apart from this, like anyone else, I go to work, eat out at restaurants, go to the pub etc and it's not even mentioned. The vast majority just couldn't give a flying one about it. As long as we have our shiney car, big house, designer clothes we, as a people, are not going to object to anything. This is my biggest dislike of Britain - we're completely self-absorbed and a conservative nation at heart - for the majority, life is about us and fuck everyone else.

And then we have the North Koreans on Murdoch's Sky News (the same Murdoch who was vociferous in his support for the Falkland Islands and Iraq - both of which had nothing whatsover to do with the interests of the British people). They're being presented as mad men in an attempt to pave the way for support of US intervention. Now, we all know the North Koreans are running a very isolated version of domestic and foreign policy but they are not a cult or insane. They are not about to attack anyone. The purpose of the North Koreans arming themselves with nukes is to preserve the current regime as the only way they can do this is by using them to act as a deterrent to anyone with plans on introducing external ideas and economic reform in NK. If the British Government decided to lend support I could quite easily see the majority of people not having an opinion either way and simply going along with whatever policy the Government decides to pursue.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 21

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 12:30:11 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Hmmm, a dilemna. I agree with you but I also agree that if they have a known al qeada operative that they should be able to break every single bone in his body with a 6 pound ball peen hammer.
And that's AFTER the butt-pyramids!

Yeah. Maybe the guy who convinced Monkeyboy that Iraq had WMDs is the one who squealed on the "known al qaeda operative."

Did you ever stop to think that we have due process laws in this country for a reason, popeye1250?

What if they find out he is not actually a "known al qaeda operative?"

Give him an apology, a grease down, and a shiatsu and send him on his way?

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

Sinergy, I certainly hope we have due process in this country but not for al qeada or terrorists. Fuck them!
And I also certainly hope we have secret prison camps in Eastern Europe where we can entertain them!

(in reply to Sinergy)

Post #: 22

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 12:32:38 AM

popeye1250

Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Hmmm, a dilemna. I agree with you but I also agree that if they have a known al qeada operative that they should be able to break every single bone in his body with a 6 pound ball peen hammer.
And that's AFTER the butt-pyramids!

Yeah. Maybe the guy who convinced Monkeyboy that Iraq had WMDs is the one who squealed on the "known al qaeda operative."

Did you ever stop to think that we have due process laws in this country for a reason, popeye1250?

What if they find out he is not actually a "known al qaeda operative?"

Give him an apology, a grease down, and a shiatsu and send him on his way?

Just me, etc.

Sinergy

Sinergy, I certainly hope we have due process in this country but not for al qeada or terrorists. Fuck them!
And I also certainly hope we have secret prison camps in Eastern Europe where we can entertain them!
Oh, I said if they are "known" al qeada.
I would imagine that certain govt agencies have lists and pictures of those guys as well as other governments and their agencies.
I don't think Bin Laden wanting to make a "truce" with the U.S. is going to do them one bit of good.

"But that's just me." I could be wrong.

< Message edited by popeye1250 -- 10/21/2006 12:37:13 AM >

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 23

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 12:44:27 AM

UtopianRanger

Posts: 3251
Status: offline

quote:

From what I see in Britain I agree with subfever.

I also agree with Subfever. People are mad....no doubt. But they are also still locked into the same phony Republican / Democrat paradigm. They can't seem to see past those two parties.

To paraphrase a quote from LaM - Looks like we're getting ready to trade one group of ''corporate cocksuckers'' for another.

That's my take.

- R

_____________________________

"If you are going to win any battle, you have to do one thing. You have to make the mind run the body. Never let the body tell the mind what to do... the body is never tired if the mind is not tired."

-General George S. Patton

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 24

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 1:01:19 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Well, maybe we'll get to hear more Fleetwood Mac songs.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 25

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 1:45:53 AM

reversecuckold

Posts: 17
Joined: 2/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250
["But that's just me." I could be wrong.

You are. In order for our laws to work they need to apply equally to everyone. Period.

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 26

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 4:48:05 AM

krys

Posts: 611
Joined: 8/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The Smiths - easily the best band of the 80s. He's right as well - what democracy?

He was in Black Flag and the Rollins Band. Definately not The Smiths. His spoken word stuff is even better than the music though.

This one is even better. Its almost enough to make me wanna be a right wing blonde.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgSBhlw-o9E

_____________________________

Krys

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 27

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 4:55:29 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: krys

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The Smiths - easily the best band of the 80s. He's right as well - what democracy?

He was in Black Flag and the Rollins Band. Definately not The Smiths. His spoken word stuff is even better than the music though.

This one is even better. Its almost enough to make me wanna be a right wing blonde.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgSBhlw-o9E

Wires crossed, krys. In one of sissify's links there is an article on Morrissey.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to krys)

Post #: 28

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 6:23:05 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: krys

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The Smiths - easily the best band of the 80s. He's right as well - what democracy?

He was in Black Flag and the Rollins Band. Definately not The Smiths. His spoken word stuff is even better than the music though.

This one is even better. Its almost enough to make me wanna be a right wing blonde.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgSBhlw-o9E

Wires crossed, krys. In one of sissify's links there is an article on Morrissey.

That letter to ann coulter is quality

I had no idea who she is before seeing a few of the clips but she's obviously not the brightest around.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 29

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 11:06:21 AM

Chaingang

Posts: 1727
Joined: 10/24/2005
Status: offline

TV Party tonight!

_____________________________

"Everything flows, nothing stands still." (Πάντα ῥεῖ καὶ οὐδὲν μένει) - Heraclitus

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 30

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 11:08:02 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

Because I haven't seen people this mad or fed up with politicians and behavior
of corporations since I can remember...and I think its going to explode.

Its going to reach critical mass.

I sure hope you're right, but I just don't see things as positively as you do.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 31

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 11:11:50 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

...The vast majority just couldn't give a flying one about it. As long as we have our shiney car, big house, designer clothes we, as a people, are not going to object to anything... ...we're completely self-absorbed and for the majority, life is about us and fuck everyone else.

Unfortunately... this is how I see things. But I sure hope the people prove me wrong one day.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 32

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 11:23:24 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I also agree with Subfever. People are mad....no doubt. But they are also still locked into the same phony Republican / Democrat paradigm. They can't seem to see past those two parties.

As previously stated, I believe most people don't care much for what goes on beyond their own personal spheres. Then, most (of the minority) that do give a rat's ass about issues and politics just can't seem to see past the polarized illusions.

I hope I'm wrong, but I still think we've got a long way to go.

(in reply to UtopianRanger)

Post #: 33

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/21/2006 3:45:14 PM

Sinergy

Posts: 9383
Joined: 4/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

Sinergy, I certainly hope we have due process in this country but not for al qeada or terrorists. Fuck them!

How do you know they are part of Al Qaeda without due process?

Would you feel this strongly about screwing Al Qaeda if somebody in the Department of Homeland Security arrested YOU for being a member of Al Qaeda?

First off, I imagine you would rant and rave for your constitutional rights if somebody accused you as being an Al Qaeda terrorist.

Secondly, Im not sure you would enjoy them telling you "You are part of Al Qaeda, fuck you!"

Perhaps I am wrong and you would be willing to take one for the Home(land Security) team.

Sinergy

_____________________________

"There is a fine line between clever and stupid"
David St. Hubbins "This Is Spinal Tap"

"Every so often you let a word or phrase out and you want to catch it and bring it back. You cant do that, it is gone, gone forever." J. Danforth Quayle

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 34

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/22/2006 1:13:29 AM

NorthernGent

Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: UtopianRanger

I also agree with Subfever. People are mad....no doubt. But they are also still locked into the same phony Republican / Democrat paradigm. They can't seem to see past those two parties.

As previously stated, I believe most people don't care much for what goes on beyond their own personal spheres. Then, most (of the minority) that do give a rat's ass about issues and politics just can't seem to see past the polarized illusions.

I hope I'm wrong, but I still think we've got a long way to go.

The problem in this country (it might be different over there) is there is a whole culture of style over substance. It's not a new concept to Britain as we've been here a thousand times before. As a people, as long as we achieve what are perceived as life's necessities then that'll do for us. Unfortunately, the perception is we need stylistic, material items.

For the majority, our standard of living is high. For a small nation we punch above our weight and have a strong economy (the foundations aren't so strong). Crucially though, we are battling against an education system that is failing people. We are producing adults who can't think for themselves even though we have high numbers at university. My solution is a change to the school curriculum. Including compulsory subjects, such as propaganda and philosophy, would allow children to understand the goal of sections of the media, give them a platform to share ideas on the meaning of life and understand our responsibilities to others.

For my money, we have serious isssues in our culture and education system and these can't be changed overnight or even in the short term.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to subfever)

Post #: 35

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/22/2006 1:43:34 AM

reversecuckold

Posts: 17
Joined: 2/12/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sissifytoserve

I think some Bush lovers here would disagree with you.

The only good "Bush lover" is a cunnalinguist.

(in reply to sissifytoserve)

Post #: 36

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/22/2006 7:02:34 AM

MizSuz

Posts: 1881
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I felt more or less the same way in 2004 ... and my fellow Americans promptly went out and re-elected George W. Bush and most of his Republican cronies in Congress.

So I'll believes it when I sees it.

Hear here! I was devastated when I sat and watched all those states turn red on the TV. Dumbfounded, depressed and oh so disappointed in my fellow americans. I was convinced we had collectively gone insane.

My only solice regarding the entire country voting that way is the notion that perhaps they didn't, perhaps it was those paperless diebold machines that did it. While I agree that the notion of election fixing is not exactly an "up" from where I was, it's enabled me to feel a bit better about my fellow citizens in general. Perhaps, as a whole, we're not as motivated by fear as it would seem. I sure hope not.

I was ready to jump ship (emigrate) until the mass stupidity had passed. I spent a good deal of time looking at the work/earnings and cost of living situation in europe, but realized I wouldn't be able to get away from it (the insanity) unless I went and lived on a deserted island. So I stayed and I wait for the pendulum to swing back.

_____________________________

“The more you love, the more you can love—and the more intensely you love. Nor is there any limit on how many you can love. If a person had time enough, he could love all of that majority who are decent and just.”
- Robert Heinlein

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 37

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/22/2006 7:45:04 AM

subfever

Posts: 2895
Joined: 5/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The problem in this country (it might be different over there) is there is a whole culture of style over substance. It's not a new concept to Britain as we've been here a thousand times before. As a people, as long as we achieve what are perceived as life's necessities then that'll do for us. Unfortunately, the perception is we need stylistic, material items.

For the majority, our standard of living is high. For a small nation we punch above our weight and have a strong economy (the foundations aren't so strong). Crucially though, we are battling against an education system that is failing people. We are producing adults who can't think for themselves even though we have high numbers at university. My solution is a change to the school curriculum. Including compulsory subjects, such as propaganda and philosophy, would allow children to understand the goal of sections of the media, give them a platform to share ideas on the meaning of life and understand our responsibilities to others.

For my money, we have serious isssues in our culture and education system and these can't be changed overnight or even in the short term.

NG, why would the powers-that-be want the masses to learn how to think for themselves? Wouldn't that be suicidal for them?

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 38

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/22/2006 11:07:40 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

Yeah, the cost-of-living situation in Europe is ridiculous. I've checked it out too.

You know, I was driving through New Jersey yesterday. I was in the left lane of US-1, and needed to move to the extreme right lane, because I needed to make a left turn, and the only way to do that for most of US-1 is to exit on the right and make a jug-handle. It's a common manuever in New Jersey. Well, what happened? NO ONE was willing to let me change lanes ahead of them. They ALL saw me there, signaling right, and they all knew why I had to get to the right lane, and ALL of them hit the accelerator and passed me by, all the while looking straight ahead.

And I thought to myself...

People in New Jersey really are assholes. The stereotype is true.

Then I thought...

They go out and vote Republican on Election Day, then they lose their jobs, and then they become assholes who won't let anyone change lanes ahead of them on US-1. That's their little revenge.

Lam

quote:

ORIGINAL: MizSuz

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I felt more or less the same way in 2004 ... and my fellow Americans promptly went out and re-elected George W. Bush and most of his Republican cronies in Congress.

So I'll believes it when I sees it.

Hear here! I was devastated when I sat and watched all those states turn red on the TV. Dumbfounded, depressed and oh so disappointed in my fellow americans. I was convinced we had collectively gone insane.

My only solice regarding the entire country voting that way is the notion that perhaps they didn't, perhaps it was those paperless diebold machines that did it. While I agree that the notion of election fixing is not exactly an "up" from where I was, it's enabled me to feel a bit better about my fellow citizens in general. Perhaps, as a whole, we're not as motivated by fear as it would seem. I sure hope not.

I was ready to jump ship (emigrate) until the mass stupidity had passed. I spent a good deal of time looking at the work/earnings and cost of living situation in europe, but realized I wouldn't be able to get away from it (the insanity) unless I went and lived on a deserted island. So I stayed and I wait for the pendulum to swing back.

(in reply to MizSuz)

Post #: 39

RE: "Freedom is under attack" - 10/22/2006 11:44:14 AM

ZenrageTheKeeper

Posts: 237
Joined: 6/26/2005
Status: offline

I was completely with him until he said the internet was "responsible for the most social changes in the last several decades"... the world wide web hasn't been around that long, and its predacessor, which did go back a couple of decades, was strictly a government program.

I think he means "the thing with the most potential for social change of the last several decades"

To the few remaining Bush supporters on this site, I have only this to say: If you support the war on terror and you honestly believe the invasion in Iraq has aided this cause, then I want you to go to the nearest Wal-Mart, buy a gun, buy all the ammo you can carry, get on a plane and go fight in Iraq yourself. If you are still able to hold, aim and shoot a gun, you've got no reason... No Reason.. NO REASON.. to call anyone else unpatriotic for not supporting Bush's bullsquat. There is no wall around the United States, so go get your gun, go to Iraq and go die for your own stupid cause.

If you haven't died for this country or my civil liberties, then you've no business talking down to me as if you had. Period.

< Message edited by ZenrageTheKeeper -- 10/22/2006 11:45:12 AM >

_____________________________

If Men never thought with their penises, all you girls would still have cooties.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 40

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