RE: Why do we need definitions? (Full Version)

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Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 4:22:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

That would make you a member of the minority then, Sinergy.



Juxtaposing your comment against the smashing, bang-up job the Majority Party has done in running the Government of the United States, I will take this as the most profound compliment I have received in months.

Thank you

Sinergy



Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 4:29:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

Noah and Padriag thank you for giving me lots of interesting concepts to think about. I tend to agree with most of what both of you have said though I had to wait until I closed the shop and could focus, to read it all properly.


Hello A/all,

I agree with this post, thank you LaTigresse.

A poster wondered why we have so many of these sorts of divisive and emotional threads.  It is entirely possible that the OP of this and other threads are not doing it because they feel the need to provide illumination into the darkness of ignorance.

It might be that they derive some sort of weird satisfaction in being able to get other people to argue when they decide to "stir the shit."

I suppose everybody needs a hobby, even if it is a puerile and nasty sort of anti-social hobby.

Just me, could be wrong, but there you go.

Sinergy



ExSteelAgain -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 4:34:29 PM)

We also answer questions differently depending on the audience. We always pay attention to those we are talking to and alter our answers in certain ways depending on the crowd.

It could be that we present the answer differently or, in fact, change the answer, to fit the audience. So if I define "whipping" here, it may not be the same definition I would give to the police knocking on my door in response to loud noises.



juliaoceania -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 4:35:22 PM)

I have learned a lot about why some people call themselves what they do, and if I labeled them and decided who they were without asking, instead of listening to the dialogue I would have lost that opportunity. Strangely enough I have not found these rich and contextual stories in the body of threads about definitions, I have instead found them when people were describing what is is THEY do. Ownedgirlie,agirl, celeste, and several others have given me much more understanding of their situation by listening to their applications of the word"slave" than I could get from a dictionary... it is ok with me that the term is not applied consistently.

I have decided when those threads come up I have nothing of note or import to add to them being a nonlabeler, and prefering to reading more indepth about how people feel about what it is that they do.

It is not that I do not care what anyone thinks per se, I DO. I care to hear more of the human experiences.. I just do not care what they think about me, my label, my Daddy, my life. I have learned many things here and hope to continue doing that... but most of what I learned I did not learn on any thread that sought to define...

But that is just me.



WickedlyDevine -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 5:05:42 PM)

LMAO, so very true.



KnightofMists -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 5:21:56 PM)

why do need definitions?

Think about listening to a language you don't understand... French, Russion, Chinese or whatever...

So why is it you don't understand what is being stated... you hear the sounds of the apparent words  but they don't register with any understanding... essentially because you have no defintion of what specific words mean.  Without the definition of the word you will not understand what is stated, hence no effective communication can occur.

Having an appreciation for how another labels and/or defines certain words... particular lifestyle terms... allows an increase chance for effective communication to occur.

The problem arises when we not only express our definition but... attempt to push that definition to others or use definitions that are designed to devalue others in some manner.




ScooterTrash -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 5:24:14 PM)

The definitions having a set meaning? Sure, it would aid in communication.
 
The threads about definitions? Too much controversy, so they may actually be a lost cause.



Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 5:34:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

The definitions having a set meaning? Sure, it would aid in communication.
 
The threads about definitions? Too much controversy, so they may actually be a lost cause.



Two people meet at a munch.

One looks at the other and says "Hello, I am a Master."

The other looks at the first one and says "Hello, I am a slave."

Have these two people actually accomplished anything by this exchange of words?

No.

Will the conversation end at this moment with the two of them dancing off
into the moonlight arm in arm for their M/s life? 

No.

Having saved countless moments of their lives from being embroiled in discourse about topics of interest to both of them.  What will then have to happen is they will need to actually communicate with each other to find out who and what the other person is.

Person A will have to find out from Person B what his/her idea of what a slave is.

Person B will have to find out from Person A what His/Her idea of what a master is.

Then the two of them will be forced to have further conversations to determine if they actually fit the other person's needs and wants and desires.

I am not sure what "time" people are trying to save.  I personally cherish the time I spend communicating with other people, but...

That is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy



aleshaDreams -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 5:45:30 PM)

In regard to the need for definitions not labels.  I feel they are a way in which we find a commonality to identify things.  Had we not made definition there could and would be alot of confused communication occuring.  To fight them or say they are redundant i don't believe could be done as how could there be an identifier / identity to anything in life.  It just does not make logical sense to run around in life without these identifiers and i think the brain is incapable of processing things without such.  From a splatter of paint to name it; i don't think the human brain can actually do it without some mental disfunction.  imo 



gypsygrl -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:03:51 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

The definitions having a set meaning? Sure, it would aid in communication.
 
The threads about definitions? Too much controversy, so they may actually be a lost cause.



Two people meet at a munch.

One looks at the other and says "Hello, I am a Master."

The other looks at the first one and says "Hello, I am a slave."

Have these two people actually accomplished anything by this exchange of words?

No.

Will the conversation end at this moment with the two of them dancing off
into the moonlight arm in arm for their M/s life? 

No.

Having saved countless moments of their lives from being embroiled in discourse about topics of interest to both of them.  What will then have to happen is they will need to actually communicate with each other to find out who and what the other person is.

Person A will have to find out from Person B what his/her idea of what a slave is.

Person B will have to find out from Person A what His/Her idea of what a master is.

Then the two of them will be forced to have further conversations to determine if they actually fit the other person's needs and wants and desires.

I am not sure what "time" people are trying to save.  I personally cherish the time I spend communicating with other people, but...

That is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy


I have all the time in the world, and have never minded a conversation about definitions or anything like that.  But, I don't agree with your approach here especially when it comes to something like a Dominant or Master interacting with a Submissive or Slave with some intention of interacting in these capacities.  I don't care what someone has to say about their approach, their driving philosophy etc, it doesn't mean anything to me until I feel what it means.  To me, definitions are helpful in organizing my thinking.  But, its been my experience, when it comes to actual communication, words tend to get in the way. If I really want to know what someone means by "Dominant" its best to let them try it, in real life, with me.  Words are inherantly ambiguous and always incompletely defined.  Feelings aren't.



adaddysgirl -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:07:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KnightofMists

The problem arises when we not only express our definition but... attempt to push that definition to others or use definitions that are designed to devalue others in some manner.



Exactly!  (again...lol)
 
i really don't see the problem with the labels as a means to self-identify....but it is when one takes the label out of the personal realm and tries to generalize it as a definition that should apply to all who share that label.....is when the problems arise.  And in essence, this is what confuses the newbies....with all those out there saying "well this is what a slave does" conflicting with another who uses the same word but has a different set of criteria.
 
When i am in a relationship, there are certain ways that i behave that make me feel like a daddysgirl.  There are certain ways that i think that reinforce my mindset of a daddysgirl.  But these are subjective to me....and to me only.  How would it sound if i came on here and said "Well, you must have the mindset of a daddysgirl to truly be a daddysgirl."  What the hell does that mean???  Or "you must act the way that i do to truly be a daddysgirl".  Hogwash!  It is just much too subjective to define that way.
 
There was some banter going on about slaves asking permission.  i actually found it quite fascinating what some were required to ask for.  But as soon as the conversation turned into "well, i am a slave because i am required to ask permission"....then it turns the whole thread upside down.  You are a slave in your household, within the context of your relationship because you ask permission....but please do not make it sound like to truly be a slave, every slave must ask permission....because that just is not the reality of it. 
 
i enjoy listening to others share the dynamics of their relationships but when anyone comes out and implies that there are certain rules...or behaviors....or mindsets...etc....that must be followed in order to be worthy of a particular title, then i will challenge that.   i want to know why you think that everyone else has to act the exact same way you do...or believe exactly in what you do....to qualify for what you call yourself.  
 
Take the "definitive generalizations" out of it and make it more personal and maybe we won't keep having these "definition threads".
 
DG
 
 



Lordandmaster -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:16:34 PM)

WTF?  I created this thread just to get other people to argue?  I don't have to create threads to get people to argue.  People do that very well all by themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

It is entirely possible that the OP of this and other threads are not doing it because they feel the need to provide illumination into the darkness of ignorance.

It might be that they derive some sort of weird satisfaction in being able to get other people to argue when they decide to "stir the shit."

I suppose everybody needs a hobby, even if it is a puerile and nasty sort of anti-social hobby.



Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:21:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

quote:

ORIGINAL: ScooterTrash

The definitions having a set meaning? Sure, it would aid in communication.
 
The threads about definitions? Too much controversy, so they may actually be a lost cause.



Two people meet at a munch.

One looks at the other and says "Hello, I am a Master."

The other looks at the first one and says "Hello, I am a slave."

Have these two people actually accomplished anything by this exchange of words?

No.

Will the conversation end at this moment with the two of them dancing off
into the moonlight arm in arm for their M/s life? 

No.

Having saved countless moments of their lives from being embroiled in discourse about topics of interest to both of them.  What will then have to happen is they will need to actually communicate with each other to find out who and what the other person is.

Person A will have to find out from Person B what his/her idea of what a slave is.

Person B will have to find out from Person A what His/Her idea of what a master is.

Then the two of them will be forced to have further conversations to determine if they actually fit the other person's needs and wants and desires.

I am not sure what "time" people are trying to save.  I personally cherish the time I spend communicating with other people, but...

That is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy


I have all the time in the world, and have never minded a conversation about definitions or anything like that.  But, I don't agree with your approach here especially when it comes to something like a Dominant or Master interacting with a Submissive or Slave with some intention of interacting in these capacities.  I don't care what someone has to say about their approach, their driving philosophy etc, it doesn't mean anything to me until I feel what it means.  To me, definitions are helpful in organizing my thinking.  But, its been my experience, when it comes to actual communication, words tend to get in the way. If I really want to know what someone means by "Dominant" its best to let them try it, in real life, with me.  Words are inherantly ambiguous and always incompletely defined.  Feelings aren't.



My approach?

I was simply stating an example of where labels and definitions fail to adequately describe a complex subject.  This is in keeping with my general attitude that, as Noah put it so succinctly, calling a person a "Master" or a "slave" is a completely subjective evaluation for the people involved.

My approach is to talk to people about things, and if the conversation gets that far, to talk about other things relating to D/s or bdsm.

But that is just me and I could be wrong.

Sinergy



Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:24:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

WTF?  I created this thread just to get other people to argue?  I don't have to create threads to get people to argue.  People do that very well all by themselves.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

It is entirely possible that the OP of this and other threads are not doing it because they feel the need to provide illumination into the darkness of ignorance.

It might be that they derive some sort of weird satisfaction in being able to get other people to argue when they decide to "stir the shit."

I suppose everybody needs a hobby, even if it is a puerile and nasty sort of anti-social hobby.



I simply stated a personal suspicion about people who start up new threads on a tired and broken subject such as this, when there are probably hundreds of other threads flogging the same dead submissive.

I apologize if you feel offended by my remarks.

Sinergy



gypsygrl -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:26:38 PM)

lmao

I just meant your "approach" in a loose sense, Sinergy, as in what you had said in the post I quoted in my post.  What the hell do I know about your approach to relationships that I would take issue with it? :)   Sorry for the confusion.



Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:28:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: gypsygrl

lmao

I just meant your "approach" in a loose sense, Sinergy, as in what you had said in the post I quoted in my post.  What the hell do I know about your approach to relationships that I would take issue with it? :)   Sorry for the confusion.



No harm, no foul.

Sinergy



Lordandmaster -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:34:01 PM)

I wasn't aware that there have been any other threads about threads about definitions.  If there are, I'd appreciate a link to them, because I might get something out of reading them.

If the subject is really so tired and broken, I wonder why you've felt obliged to contribute to this thread as many as nine times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I simply stated a personal suspicion about people who start up new threads on a tired and broken subject such as this, when there are probably hundreds of other threads flogging the same dead submissive.



juliaoceania -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:37:46 PM)

http://www.collarchat.com/m_604021/mpage_1/key_bdsm%2Cdefinitions/tm.htm



Lordandmaster -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:41:25 PM)

I missed that one.

But this thread has generated four pages of responses in less than one day.  Your own master, even if he considers it a tired subject, contributed to this thread nine times.  I think that's a good indication that people still have more to say.



Sinergy -> RE: Why do we need definitions? (10/23/2006 6:49:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lordandmaster

I wasn't aware that there have been any other threads about threads about definitions.  If there are, I'd appreciate a link to them, because I might get something out of reading them.

If the subject is really so tired and broken, I wonder why you've felt obliged to contribute to this thread as many as nine times.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sinergy

I simply stated a personal suspicion about people who start up new threads on a tired and broken subject such as this, when there are probably hundreds of other threads flogging the same dead submissive.



Useful threads include

Re:  Definition of Slave

Re: BDSM Definitions

Re:  Do you have to fit in a box?

Re:  Why do we need definitions?  (the one you are posting on)

Re: Lables

Re:  Folsom Fringe Presentation provides "Common Definitions"

Re: Submissive but not Servant

Re:  Labels in BDSM: Harm or Enhance

These should give you a starting ground for your research.

In regards your other question about how many times I have posted, please explain why you are interested in my motivation for the things I do? 

Regards,

Sinergy




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