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Alpha submissives - 10/24/2006 11:33:51 PM   
sweetdeelights


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recently a good friend of mine was witness to some submissives on the recieving end of derision and ridicule on a forum by someone who claimed to be "Alpha submissive" she felt moved to write the article below and I have reposted it here with her permission.
 
An Essay written by a very dear friend of mine


the Shell Game



For a number of years now, i have watched the development of the term Alpha submissive. Although the term in its new whimsical context has always, to some extent, irritated, what people need to call themselves is not high on my list of defining characteristics, and so, i left the debate to those who claimed they had an informed opinion and those bold enough to question it. How people behave towards others and how they take responsibility for who and what they are has always seemed to be far more important. Recently, i have had cause to reconsider the 'new' definitions of the Alpha submissive, as defined by one who is most vociferous on behalf of 'the cause' as well as observe the behavior of some of those same self-defined and self-designated 'alphas' and it has brought to my mind a need to respond. Thus i share these humble thoughts with you all *smiles*
Upon first hearing it, the term IS kinda catchy, for someone new and/or lacking knowledge of group formations within the Lifestyle and especially if they are unaware of what the term means within its most widely understood, traditional, and functional definition. In my experience the term alpha submissive has always been used to denote the more experienced submissive within a structured group or household, trusted and expected to lead other submissive members by example as well as providing guidance. Within a particular group or household the alpha submissive is a valuable position of responsibility that is a key element to maintaining the harmony of the group. The wealth of resources available online is a vast, wonderful thing. I was certain if any of the recently published theories regarding the existence of this new and improved alpha submissive were credible, i would easily find corroborating evidence to the fact. A sample of well over 100 random results yielded the following information .
The overwhelming number of results for the term alpha submissive were mostly anthropological studies of "Alpha" individuals in a social group (various primates, dogs, wolves, lions, hyenas etc.) most of which are rarely found attending a munch or other D/s activities. The few that used the term as it relates to the Lifestyle defined the alpha submissive as being the submissive in the role of "first girl," within a group, family, or home. This role is acknowledged and valued by both Dominant and sub alike within the group. ' The submissive acting as the Alpha sub the one among the other submissives, most respected and granted the greatest power. They have technical authority and the last word in the house over other submissives and when the house Dominant(s) are not present visiting Dominants will give the alpha submissive the respect of her position' (in Bolan,R. 2006; Mallory, F., 1994; Veaux, F., 2006; et al.). Clearly these definitions make sense in using the term alpha; "the 1st letter of the Greek alphabet to define "something that is first," (Merriam-Webster Dictionary, 2006). The authors apply the term properly in a way that has logical meaning to define a particular role of a submissive.
My objections to what this term has evolved into within certain circles lies in the expectations of those who have dramatized its import and dismissed its traditional meaning. We are supposed to adopt a new, far more profound, meaning of the term. we are expected to not notice this new meaning has little to do with the literal definition of the word 'alpha' and that it is nothing as specific as a term for a submissives position within a group. We are expected to not find it offensive that those who tout the validity of the term lump togeter the rest of us non-alphas into one group declaring us similar in nature , weak willed and complacent. We are expected to not notice that the examples of proof which supposedly validate the definition of this group, are questionable on every level they are presented be it physiological, psychological or sociological. It is assumed we arent quite paying attention as the Shell Game goes on and inevitably wont remember which shell the pea is under. After the flurry of supposed scientific proof - misinterpreted clinical evidence and passionate testimonial... The brilliance and glamour of the Alpha submissive (as sayeth the applicable alpha of the species (Dominant or submissive of course) is such that we should all be left in awe of what they say they are, recognize the burden of their rich heritage and the courage they must have to move amongst those who have a 'different nature; to the degree, that we will notice neither the invalidity of their science nor the broad generalizations that describe the characteristics of this species and are presented as unique in some way to themselves.
We are expected to be dazzled by the pomp and fashionable fervor of this extraordinary creature to the extent we simply watch the growing parade go by and never speak out loud what it is many of us truly see. Yes, ...i’m the little girl pointing and saying "But...the Emperor has NO clothes!!"... the cloth they are made of is all in the imagination of the ones spinning the illusion. This is where my final objection lies, for we are dared to question the purveyors of this beautifully rich cloth. We are expected to accept their character is as above reproach as they say it is and their word …"the Truth." The ones who cannot see the cloth are the fools' they say .....They do sound convicted, they put on a good show, but there is simply nothing there.
Alpha anonymous poses a theory of some sort of secretive, on-line only vernacular in which her definition exists. Instead of bolstering her argument it appears that she only strengthens the appearance that her Alpha species is more make believe than offering something relevant. For those with off-line knowledge and experience this typifies and most likely appears to be just one more of those off-line to on-line mutations that someone proclaims to be a fact and distorts into the latest "new reality." It is no wonder this rationale meets with a less than warm acceptance. One cannot simply remove a word or term from the relational context in which it has functional meaning then expect well-informed people to have unquestioning acceptance of whatever new meaning is fabricated for it.
Alpha anonymous refers to the "building blocks" of the "Alpha nature" she was born with "swishing and swirling around" within her to set the premise for her mistaken belief that it is genetics that set the Alpha species apart from other submissives (or Dominants) and the underpinnings of her behavior. Nothing could be more naive or further from the truth. The once "sexy science" claiming that genes are the sole explanation for inherited traits has been proven false by the very studies conducted to prove this theory. Could there be anything more elitist, divisive, or condescending than to suggest that the genetic make-up of an individual’s submissiveness is significantly different and superior than that of another’s? The need for genetic predetermination to explain why one does the things she does more accurately reflects the desire to avoid our fears rather than to truly understand the results of our behavior and our responsibility for them.
DeeMarie (2004) claims in a discussion group thread, that the Alpha submissive is strong, confident, and assertive. Alpha anonymous contends that Alpha submissives are thinkers and intellectuals who posses powerful minds. my question simply is are these qualities unique from those of the many individuals in general who identify themselves as and choose the role of a submissive? These traits are not at all unusual when considering the person who sincerely, willingly, and consciously lays herself at another's feet in order to serve and submit. i am privileged to know several submissives who exemplify these traits. They have all been strong enough, confident enough, and assertive enough to balance their needs and their life circumstances with their submissiveness … and are quite able to "surrender" to another as well as to themselves.
Alpha anonymous tries to further embellish the Alpha species with qualities like being well read, having exceptional leadership skills, holding managerial positions, and even something as arbitrary as being well traveled. Although citing descriptive qualities that are learned behaviors, acquired skills, or preferences of activities does nothing to support the theory that genetics are the source of such traits and therefore supports my own opinion.. For the purpose of continuity, i'll simply stick to the point that these traits are in no way unique to any one group. What is the difference between those who meet the challenges of their existence without the support of a self appointed term such as "Alpha submissive" and those who need to defend this term to the point of denigrating any discussion regarding its true purpose and meaning while belittling those of us who do not wear said term on our sleeve? In truth ...very little ... yet the discussion goes on.


Like Alpha anonymous, DeeMarie feels a compulsion to form a unique identity around what ironically seems to be their lack of ability and willingness to actually be submissive. The one piece of clarity she offers is that her submission only comes out in the boudoir. If DeeMarie or any other "well read" Alpha sub were to read the widely distributed article The 9 Levels of submission (Vera, D., 1984), they would see that this new found identity was defined long ago and their attempt to reinvent the wheel erroneously with the Alpha sub term is really unnecessary.
Why does all this chatter for some reason make me think of being way back at the end of a long line at Starbucks?..... Alpha submissive, submissive alpha female, Self-Dominated ALPHA female, high-Dominance woman, Alpha Dominant Male, plain submissive, plain Dominant, half caff, half de-caff, double espresso, no foam soy latte macchiatto..... i heard comedian Bill Maher state once, "If it takes twenty minutes for you to cite your order at Starbucks , you’re officially an a**hole!" - It does give one a reason to pause.
Of course, all of us are unique, *smiles* i am not taking that away from those who proclaim the existence of the Alpha submissive in all her glory....i do, however, wonder about the intense need she seems to have to defend this term so vehemently. In Alpha anonymous' mind, the world is fraught with uniquely painful and frustrating challenges the Alpha submissive faces every day. There seems to be a special malaise and paranoia reserved for Alpha submissives and their Alpha Dominant counterparts who supposedly feel no need to prove who and what they are, yet go to a great deal of trouble to be acknowledged and heralded (no point here in false modesty) for who and what they uniquely are ......... Their "Alpha natures" are a source of confusion and inner struggle, they feel persecuted, all the while vilifying and holding in contempt those "of a different nature" for having an elitist attitude because we do not understand Alphaism. The illustrations given of the great cross an Alpha is born to bear are no different from the conflicts and challenges the rest of us face every day of our lives. The difference lies in where we concentrate our focus... in the crusade to be recognized for ones self-appointed entitlement to a unique existence or on the consistency of our character and the responsibility we take for our actions. i question if in practice this "other nature" of the Alphas actually describes them in the same light they think it does. i also question just who exactly has the elitist attitude.
The qualities that are pleasing to a large number of "Just Plain Dominants" such as, a desire to please, an open heart & mind, an ability to embrace ones sensuality, to explore ones sexuality, general manners, and particular protocol skills, do not conflict with any of the positive traits cited incorrectly as belonging only to the alpha submissive. i do not find any of those qualities intimidating, i have some of them myself. i am not generally considered intimidating and i do not find that the attributes of inner-strength, self esteem, and intelligence among other aspects of my personality, hinder me in regards to social situations in any way. i do not need to demean someone to call them a sister/brother nor do i cast a leery eye around a room for those who are different from me in order to exclude them. i do however expect in a social situation, especially where women are concerned, not to be condescended to, i expect to be able to express myself without being made to feel ridiculous or somehow less than those who insulate themselves with likeminded bullies and dare me to attempt to challenge them.
The idea that the Alpha sub is significantly different from other submissives is supported in another article by winds of tara (2004) in which she announces "l am an Alpha submissive" claiming that the Alpha sub: " is as rare as her counterpart ... the Alpha Male." How fascinating, i thought, when i read what appears to be a seminal article on the Alpha species entitled; The Self-Dominated ALPHA female (Kinglizard 1998). The writer who is a self defined Alpha states: "Let Me reiterate that the true "Alpha Female" or "Self-dominated submissive" is at least as rare as her counterpart the "Alpha Male" but many, if not all submissives share some of her traits." Could this possibly be an example of the 'powerful mind' of the Alpha species, a sort of "Seventh sense" of the Alphas that enables them to think in lockstep with one another?
Is the following an example of those alleged superior Alpha leadership qualities as demonstrated by this same self-proclaimed member of the Alpha species in chastising one of her peers regarding the lack of ethics in her writing style?: "you chose to plagiarise someone else words........change them slightly and present it as yours......that missy loses credibility points for a start.....and puts you on a level nothing more than a cheat ......... if you don't know what an Alpha submissive is..all you have to do is simply write what you think she is.....you do not have to cheat and lie your way ....... it makes you look terribly lazy." (winds of tara, 2006)
The revelation above does confirm an Alpha may indeed be blessed when it comes to observation skills. She does describe plagiarism very well. It seems that her judgment of a person who behaves as she does (lazy, lying, cheating, lack of credibility) certainly fails to support the claims of integrity and high standards of conduct professed to be included in the sum total of an Alpha submissives parts. If humility, honesty, integrity were indeed part of this Alpha sub’s character she would not have chastised her peer so mercilessly for something she does herself. Is condescention, arrogance and duplicity conducive to the confidence, wisdom and strength Alpha anonymous claims she mentors and guides people with? Is the compassion shown to another as you sit in an environment where you are above reproach the same you may have cause to give to another under more humbling circumstances? Hypocrisy easily undoes many a superior attitude .... in this i see the legend of the Alpha submissive coming to the same tragic end found in other cautionary fables. Illusion and rhetoric are never a substitute for substance.
Does any group have the right to collect together and fabricate a new term for themselves? Absolutely!- the first meeting of the "i woke up on the left side of the bed Tuesday' submissives will be held next week ...we are all easily recognized by our exceptional qualities and strengths you are all more than welcome to join our community and share the communal discovery of our true natures. ...we'll let you all know more about them as we figure them out. In banding together we will feel more comfortable and at peace with who we are …. Please note- we will brook no argument about that which we say we have discovered ... as soon as we discover it.
All levity aside, i am not for a moment imagining that my opinion will somehow deflate the cause of the Alpha submissive nor her mythical, tumultuous, "nature" for those who need to seek their identities in an erroneous term dressed in fraudulent attire. The message i seek to convey here is that our commonalities are what benefit us as individuals and as a collective group. Tolerance of one another’s differences and an acceptance of each other without divisive terms is a more direct path to understanding,personal growth and, if you will forgive me the usage of a plain ol submissive's term...grace.
So... what is my point Y/you all might be asking- now that i have pointed out the Emperor is in His underwear.....what now? My point is this, in the end, regardless of what you need to call yourself during the span of your existence, the measure of a person is their life and how they lived it. For every objection i have posed above there is an opposing argument, such is the beauty behind the exchange of ideas. The fact i may consider these arguments delusional means little to the person who disagrees with me and i understand that. i suppose the challenge to all of us is to progress beyond ideas, beyond words, and strive to fulfill the potential inside of us thru our actions, demeanor and positive focus. Online and offline, our actions speak louder than any words we could ever type, any speeches we could make, no matter how high the soapbox. Although words hold great power, they quickly become hollow and worthless if not exemplified by a person’s life. Words can be the basis for expressing a principle well exemplified by a person’s character or they can be an example of great cowardice, something for people to hide behind while their actions tell another tale. Behavior is the true measure of a person’s character. A well worded fancy sounding term does not somehow exempt a person from walking down the same path as the rest of us. from the responsibility we have towards one another, or from the karma we set in motion with every action we own.
To have a voice valued amongst our peers, to be strong and courageous individuals, to be giving and compassionate human beings....The same burden is given to us all....That of finding ourselves, existentially speaking, in the One world we all live in, making our way along our path in a balanced and peaceful existence, finding our own happiness. Indeed a formidable task, yet one, that i have seen many embrace and succeed at - none of who called themselves anything special least of all a member of the Alpha Species. The fact we participate in a unique lifestyle with certain protocols and traditions should never detract from those things.
No term, or rant, or stream of consciousness derived philosophy should separate us from who and what we are, how we treat our fellow human beings and the responsibility we have to see the true reflection in the mirror before us. Faults and all, can we embrace who we
see and know in our hearts we did a good days work towards living a life that seeks to stand up for the principles and character we say we have? The true challenge is to weave a cloth of such strength and beauty it is easily seen without the aid of rhetoric or deception, its art is best shown in the wearing.
Ego needs, perceived status in the social hierarchy, a readily available excuse when ones behavior causes conflict with others … certainly these things are not uncommon reasons for clinging desperately to something, and although the habit of grandstanding over a non-issue may bring temporary comfort to the person behind the podium, it is on the whole, as non-productive as the issue itself is valid. For those of us who enjoy the music of life in all its richness, the din of superiority, hypocrisy, and elitism can prove a tiresome distraction and is an old song at best, even when sung in a different key by an Alpha submissive.
Fondly and with much love
SteeLs pet
~fury~
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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 4:37:45 AM   
Dnomyar


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Thats one persons opinion and it is to much to read all at once.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 4:45:43 AM   
FangsNfeet


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Translation. Relationship between Master and Alpha Sub: What's mine is mine and what's yours is ours. Beta Sub: What's mine is mine and what's yours is for me and Alpha.

_____________________________

I'm Godzilla and you're Japan

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 4:54:37 AM   
sophia37


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I got halfway thru it.
I get the point.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 5:11:27 AM   
swtsouthernsub


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That is pretty much the way my Master explained it to me not necessarily put that way
but same idea
I'm considered the Alpha sub in the  dynamics of our relationship  
Master might be wrong but hes always Right

_____________________________

DEBBIE
Messenger Of Truth
Let the words of my mouth and meditations of my heart,
be acceptable in thy sight O Lord my strength and redeemer
Psalms 19:14

Those with a closed mind live a sheltered life.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 5:12:31 AM   
givemyall


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

Translation. Relationship between Master and Alpha Sub: What's mine is mine and what's yours is ours. Beta Sub: What's mine is mine and what's yours is for me and Alpha.


Phhhhewwww, thanks for the translation, too much blue writing and I go dizzy lol

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 5:55:49 AM   
Iskander


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If my sub spent so much time writing such idiotic essays worrying about what others think, then she isn't spending enough time serving me or worrying what I think and she'd be in the alpha shit... I wouldn't care if she was the whole alphabet soup...

Iskander...





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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 6:04:07 AM   
RedSavageSlave


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I am in a poly relationship where sis is Alpha and I am beta.... however, that is because her and Sir have a 10 yr marriage where I have been involved for mere months..

Is this what she is trying to say??? I couldnt get that far.. I might have read it all the way through if the font werent so hard on the eyes.

_____________________________

My give a damn's busted.

So many thoughts, so few of them rational

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 6:33:24 AM   
Celeste43


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Have paragraphs been outlawed? Plus the font and color, almost seems designed to prevent people from reading it.

An alpha sub is top of the others in a poly arrangement. Like a head housekeeper bosses the maids in a hotel. Yes they're all involved in the same end result, getting the rooms clean, but somebody has to be boss of this area and the hotel owner doesn't have time to supervise maintenance, kitchen staff, housekeeping, landscaping etc. That's why there is middle management.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 7:33:31 AM   
LuckyAlbatross


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Her use of "caps speak" and regular "cyber smiles" not to mention her usage of the "9 levels of submission" essay as some valid source really doesn't do well for supporting her attempt at a serious work- and as others pointed out, the font and lack of paragraphs makes it even worse.

And the fact that she spends the first third simply sounding superior and how necessary it is for her to provide clarification...and then spends the next third spouting a lot of half baked ideas on traits and cliches about submission and domination.

I see some kernels of interest here, and I understand what she is getting at.  I just think it needs a lot of scrubbing down and cleaning out with a lot of good paint to make it what I would consider a "good essay."

http://www.collarchat.com/tm.asp?m=425217&mpage=1&key=alpha&#425334
Alpha slave, what does it mean exactly

http://www.collarchat.com/m_484696/mpage_1/key_alpha/tm.htm#485000
Alpha and Beta


_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 7:45:06 AM   
MasterWilliam55


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Outside of group and household dynamics, there is a place for the "alpha submissive".  When i was trained as a Dom in the late 70's, it was common practise to show respect for those with more knowledge and training than you. We did not refer to them as "alphas".  In my opinion the alpha personality (type A) has very little momentum in the circles I inhabit. We simply showed respect for those with more training or had been around a long time. They did not demand this attention or force it on us. They were in a sense role-models. It seems to me with the advent of anonymous cyber relationships, many see the "alpha' in the context of a power dynamic as apposed to a nurturing one. This applies to Dominants and submissives alike. Admittedly, I'm a high protocol Master, and the structure I refer to is more important to me than others. To this day, I do not respond to those Dominants or submissives that use aggression to to define themselves. Display to me your knowledge, training and a willingness to nuture and you will have earned my respect.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 8:07:15 AM   
Dnomyar


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Master William that was well put. Could you put that in essay form.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 8:19:25 AM   
MasterWilliam55


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ty Dnomyar....I'll do my best at the earliest opportunity.

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 1:10:34 PM   
MasterWilliam55


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Behavior and Structure in the D/s environment

(A few years ago I read a personals ad. It was headlined “Seeking an Alpha Dominant”. Curious, I wrote back  “What is an Alpha Dominant?” The reply I received was “Someone who IS Dominant and not just thinks they are”.  It was somewhat of a gratuitous answer but made me reflect on my own history, my understanding of the recent history of D/s relationships, and how people define themselves in this environment. This is the genesis of the following essay.)

The military model is often used to explain the structure of D/s and M/s relationships.  We’re not talking here about BDSM activities, but rather the nature of the relationships. Gay men, women and to some extent heterosexuals, unwilling to give up the relationships they enjoyed in the military with it’s rules and protocols, carried their needs into the civilian world.  This had as much to do with the need for structure as it did with sexual proclivities. This was manifested not only in conventional civilian life, as witnessed in 1950’s households, but the nature of these relationships had a natural affinity for BDSM activities which have existed for eons. Although the Marquis de Sade popularized BDSM and D/s in the late 1700’s, it never really reached  the public consciousness until the 1940’s and 1950’s. Since then, interest in this has grown exponentially.  Although, few of us would defend all of de Sade’s work, we can’t escape his influence.

It’s worth noting at this point that not all Gays, lesbians and heterosexuals involved in D/s relationships are in fact involved in BDSM activities. It was however the Gay and Lesbian community of that period that were involved in BDSM and D/s that provided all of us with some of the structure, rules and protocols we use today.

Having said this, even in the 1970’s it was still difficult to find outlets and partners for these activities, and there was a clear need for such. If you were fortunate, you found someone to nurture your interests and found underground groups to share your thoughts with. Rules and protocols were used to define your role and your behavior by reflecting your inclinations and thus helping compatible partners find you.  We referred to these folks as mentors, Dominant and submissive alike. We displayed visible signs of respect for those that taught and guided us and have shown us respect in return.  Dominants sometimes called another Dominant Sir or Ma’m.  A submissive sometimes showed their appreciation for another submissive saying the same or displaying a more demure attitude when in their presence. It does not mean they saw themselves as submissive to that person. It simply reflects their level of development and respect for that person that was mentoring them. To a lesser extent, this is seen today, mainly in the real life community and certainly within high protocol groups.

This leads us to the point of this essay. The growth of internet dating sites has made the BDSM community accessable to everyone. It’s a double edged sword. One edge brings us new partners and a growing community…the other edge brings us those folks with little or no understanding of what keeps this community healthy and together.  We are here to enjoy ourselves, to enjoy our sexuality,  practise our proclivities and our fetishes, and to make friends with those that understand and share our needs. This requires some rules and protocols to guide our behaviour and define for others who we are as individuals. 

So what exactly Is and “alpha” Dom or submissive? Perhaps they can be defined as a person who respects and protects our community not only through words and deeds, but how they represent themselves.

This is our village…help it prosper.


Show respect towards those that have earned it.
Show newcomers around town in an open and friendly manner.
Do not force your knowledge or ideas on folks.
Do not run for mayor until you shown leadership.
Guide those that need guidance and help those that need help.
Don’t lie.
Don’t be rude but stand your ground and defend your beliefs.
Accept criticism and learn from it.
Do not be too quick to judge.
Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.
Enjoy yourself.

These are the rambling thoughts of an old Dom,  perhaps digressing a bit, but I think represent the views of my peer group.

MasterWilliam







(in reply to MasterWilliam55)
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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 7:22:44 PM   
apb


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Hello!

I am definitely an alpha sub (when in sub mode).  Since finding my feet in the lifestyle I have aspired to be the alpha sub in that I take great care in learning how to serve my Master/Mistress and enjoy taking care of other subs and helping them to serve well.

My MissTress and I enjoy playing with other subs very much, but W/we know that I am the 24/7, alpha sub ..




_____________________________

~ apb

"This is who I am - you can like it or not. You can love me or leave me 'cos I'm never gonna' stop."
~ Madonna

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 7:35:17 PM   
MasterWilliam55


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apb,

I congratulate you and your Mistress for understanding that an "alpha" sub...not only leads other subs in her Mistresses stable but provides leadership to the community in general by teaching others. TY

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 9:15:25 PM   
Mavis


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my  Short essay:

ok, i just figured if the whole world was Dominants and submissives, but all the Dominants died, the alpha subs would run the joint. Somebody's got to be in charge.   

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RE: Alpha submissives - 10/25/2006 9:25:10 PM   
DiurnalVampire


Posts: 8125
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From: Nashville, TN
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In my personal opinion: You are only an alpha submissive within the boundaries of your own relationship. Someone elses alpha sub has no more authority than my boy because they have been given the title or position of Alpha by their owner.  To me, they are nothing special. I have met several subs from poly homes who seem to think that the authority given to them by their masters within their homes and relationships somehow empowers them over outside subs as well.

This is why I stick to one, I dont have to train anyone to control others, and he knows his place in regards to me as well as to everyone else.

DV

_____________________________

I will be your Dominate if you will be my submit - Fox

Snarko Ergo Sum
If you cannot change your mind, how are you so sure you still have one? -proverb

*Owner of Fox - collared 10/13/07*
VampiresLair

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