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Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:35:52 AM

Dnomyar

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Love came up in my last post. Why does a Dom/sub relationship have to be based on love. I think that is why you see a lot of velcro collars. One person expects the other to fall in love with them.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:40:19 AM

Kalira

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Love came up in my last post. Why does a Dom/sub relationship have to be based on love. I think that is why you see a lot of velcro collars. One person expects the other to fall in love with them.

Who says it does?
I know many in RL who have been in a D/s M/s relationship for years, and yet, neither claim to 'be in love' with the other.
You have to remember that what you want from this, willl always be different from what others want.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:41:02 AM

ownedgirlie

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It doesn't have to be based on love. It depends on the people involved. I submitted to my Master before I ever loved him, and grew to love him months later, after ownership occurred. He came to love me several months beyond that. But my slavery to him came before love did.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:44:18 AM

KatyLied

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It doesn't need to be based on love. I can't believe that everyone who submits falls in love immediately or at first sight. I think that many who claim they must "have love to submit" don't realize that they probably did submit before they were in love with their Dom. That's not to say that other things aren't present, such as affection, respect, caring, etc.

edit to fix grammar

< Message edited by KatyLied -- 10/25/2006 8:45:15 AM >

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:46:30 AM

Lashra

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From what I've observed quite a few people get into these relationships because they are looking for love and kink. I think the ones with the velcro collars are the ones who are a bit naive and believe just because they have a Mistress/Master that means the person loves them, it does NOT. Just like having sex with a person doesn't mean that they love you. That is why you see so many tearful posts about Mistress/Master doesn't love me, how could s/he not?

I did my relationship the other way around we were friends, fell in love and then came the kink we both enjoy. So far its worked very well.

~Lashra

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:54:02 AM

MasterFireMaam

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I don't think the issue has anything, really, to do with WIITWD. It has everything to do with how we are taught to seek out, find and behave in relationships. Most of these concepts are terrible as far as self-development and creating healthy relationships is concerned. I wrote about this in my myspace blog a while ago (August 25th, 2006 entry). In it, I make the following points about romantic love, how it's perceived in our society and what's wrong with those perceptions:

Often, romantic love is based on the desire for someone to tell us we are worthy of being loved rather than us knowing from within that we are worthy. When their approval of us inevitably fails, we loose our sense of self-worth and plummet.
Romantic love idealizes the relationship is such a way that it is doomed to fail. Explanation: Your partner will never be perfect and neither will you. Expecting otherwise, or expecting someone to change in order to satisfy the other person, is unrealistic and unfair.
All too often, we agree to give up too much in order to have the romanticized relationship with a sole person. So much so that when a small thing fails (he forgot my birthday), it's the proverbial straw and the relationship then can fall apart. We must be sure we are not selling ourselves too much in order to cling to the idea of "mating for life".
It is a truly joyful thing to just sit in someone's energy and be content, not because they love you, but because you love them.

I'm getting ready to post something about Unconditional Love and Conditional Relationships, hopefully today, if anyone is actually interesting in ready me write to myself. LOL

Master Fire

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 8:58:19 AM

LuckyAlbatross

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar
Love came up in my last post. Why does a Dom/sub relationship have to be based on love. I think that is why you see a lot of velcro collars. One person expects the other to fall in love with them.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 9:09:39 AM

juliaoceania

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Personally I want it all in my relationship, but that does not mean that others want the same thing as me. I want and expect love, but I have not been collared once, much less repeatedly. Love is not necessary for everyone, but it is valid for some.

I do not see a velcro collar as existing because love was there, I think that it happens when people prematurely enter into a full dynamic without finding out about each other... I do not see what love has to do with velcro collars.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 9:30:01 AM

texancutie

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Wow...thank you for all the links LuckyAlbatross. And thanks to the OP for posting. This is rather timely for me. I am dealing with very deep feelings for my Dominant. But these feelings are born out of deep respect and trust, and the fact that I just plain like him as a person. He asked me a very interesting question the other day. So I have been trying to explore how deep my feelings actually are and what exactly they are. Love can be many different things to many different people. I think we are capable of loving more than one person at once to differing degrees. I also do think there are successful BDSM relationships that are not based on romantic feelings of love. I deeply desire to serve and to please, and I don't necessarily need a boyfriend in order to do so. Though I do have to have a deep connection of sorts in order to want to serve someone, and for me the basis for that is mutual respect. But that is just me, I can't serve or scene with someone I can't respect. Or could it be possible I am afraid of the L word? Oh well, eventually I will figure it out.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 9:40:37 AM

Dnomyar

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Good answer cutie. Your really comming along.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 9:43:06 AM

darkinshadows

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I disagree that love has anything to do with BDSM. But it can for some people.

I also disagree that love has anything to do with velcro collars. That has to do with a need for people to find a place, to have a position - to DEFINE themself as others would see them, instead of just being themselves. Love, as Em said on the other thread - allows people to be exactly what they are - that counters the thought that velcro collars come from love. Velcro collars come from the need to be accepted, to be important - to be something.

Other than yourself.

Peace and Rapture

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 9:52:45 AM

Dnomyar

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Love does not allow you to be what you are. At times it can cloud your judgement and can cause a rose colored glasses syndrome.

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RE: What's love got to do with it? - 10/25/2006 10:12:57 AM

amayos

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Love came up in my last post. Why does a Dom/sub relationship have to be based on love. I think that is why you see a lot of velcro collars. One person expects the other to fall in love with them.

I think you are touching upon that tendency in many to adopt traditional romantic expectations within BDSM, a belief that personal subjugation is nothing more than an eccentric rollercoaster for accomplishing the familiar mainstream goal of romance. The "Master and slave" dynamic so often is a means to a hoped for end, which skirts far outside the boundaries of what the roles literally contain.

Having said that, I believe a selfless, all-consuming love is an important force in the consensual slave. Without a love for her Master, she must then be formed through a more violent and fearful conditioning, which by itself is ultimately not as reliable. The consensual slave must be captured through his or her desire, need and love. Combining this with a deep conditioning—cruel or kind—makes the white-hot sticky glue that binds. But this is not to say that such love needs to be reciprocated, as traditionally believed. A true symbiotic love can form between Master and slave, but it is not necessary. I suggest that the slave love his or her keeper, nonetheless. Without that emotional engine, there is less to back up a consensual slave's devotion. With enough time, continued reinforcement through routine and silent steamroller cruelty, a mind can be so forged that it will obey by habit alone, even if its love were to eventually wither. I find love an important element, however, and I prefer keeping it alive in a slave.

< Message edited by amayos -- 10/25/2006 10:25:04 AM >

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 10:19:23 AM

RiotGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Love came up in my last post. Why does a Dom/sub relationship have to be based on love. I think that is why you see a lot of velcro collars. One person expects the other to fall in love with them.

there are very few "have" too's Love is not a have too. D/s and love is not a have too. i think your statement sounds very absolute to me, which i dont agree with.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 10:20:36 AM

RiotGirl

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

I'm getting ready to post something about Unconditional Love and Conditional Relationships, hopefully today, if anyone is actually interesting in ready me write to myself. LOL

Master Fire

i'm waiting

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 10:39:50 AM

Dnomyar

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amayos I agree with you about love in a slave relationship. But my post said submissive. 2 different dynamics

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 10:52:52 AM

twicehappy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Love does not allow you to be what you are.

Love should not only allow you to be who you are, it should nourish and encourage the person you are.

Perhaps the velcro collars as well as the velcro wedding bands are due in part to folks that think " i love everything about them but i will change this or that".

quote:

ORIGINAL: amayos

Having said that, I believe a selfless, all-consuming love is an important force in the consensual slave.
The consensual slave must be captured through his or her desire, need and love. Combining this with a deep conditioning—cruel or kind—makes the white-hot sticky glue that binds.
Without that emotional engine, there is less to back up a consensual slave's devotion. I find love an important element, however, and I prefer keeping it alive in a slave.

How beautifully stated.

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 10:56:04 AM

darkinshadows

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Agreed, but it can allow you to be alot more yourself as well, depends on the dynamic. Velcro collars happen because people need to be accepted, be it in love, in BDSM... whatever label they want to be and accept as the definition someone wants to thrust upon them.

Peace and Rapture

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 10:56:42 AM

BitaTruble

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dnomyar

Love does not allow you to be what you are. At times it can cloud your judgement and can cause a rose colored glasses syndrome.

Nah, that's lust and it's a short term affectation. Love allows you to see the flaws and accept someone in spite of them.

Oh, and that rose colored glasses thing.. that doesn't distort vision, it just makes everything a nice shade of pink and in my world.. pink is just one notch under red, which is my very favorite color.. at least for some parts of my anatomy.

YMMV

Celeste

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RE: Whats love got to do with it. - 10/25/2006 11:12:34 AM

toservez

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Love does not have to be a part of a D/s relationship. This is also not any different then no love in a regular relationship which happens a lot but still the minority. It is what a person needs/wants and finding another who is looking for the same thing. If a person is looking for love in a relationship and the other is not, then problems will happen. For me personally I need love in my life and could not have my life so dominated with someone who owns me that there would be none. But I know of all types of relationships as well that love has nothing to do with why they are together and seem happy.

Once again it is about honest communication, spelled out expectations and finding the elusive match.

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